Powerlab 35R kit will not make 500 HP
05-20-2010, 06:42 AM
#101
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Please show me these other shop's dynos that have achieved these power levels!!! Also, is it a " normal setup "to run the wastegate like Intense during the 650 hp dyno run? Where are the objective power levels/ dynos to support the powerlab claim that this kit can achieve 653whp with a simple semi-built short block and a upgraded fuel-system as they boldly advertise on their website??? Finally, there has been several builts that have produced over 500whp with 2.5 inch dual exhausts. Even, Jtain has proven that the exhaust is not in issue with the limits of this kit by running it with an open pipe.
listen i understand you are frustrated and from what i can see people are trying to help you out, till the thread PL not intense were contacted and they have contact injected....both shops have experience with high whp build for many years and none of this is their 1st rodeo.... the 653 as other high dyno numbers (such as the 1500whp supra) don't on that came from that dyno are:
-on video
-came directly out of a dynojet that doesn't allow any kind of % adjustments and as you can see on the dynosheet i posted back on zero smoothing. This is why dynojets are more industry standard to compare numbers.
-the kit achieved 11 secs @ 125 mph
...i am not sure what kind of proof you are talking about here that is missing. I am not sure how is it not normal to max out the psi you can run when trying to reach high power numbers on c16....
I am think u could also try and see if you can get the upgrade to a gt37r on a trade or something to help you reach the numbers too, people are on the thread here to help you out, , when you said "They can easily pm me here at this site but I have not heard from them. I have spoken with Injected and they stated that they have spoken but not resolution was reached. Hal will be able to post the objective findings after this weekend on the engine, pressure testing of the system, dynos, AITs, and back pressure on the hot side of the system. "
I am nto sure what kind of resolution you a re talking about... powerlab was made aware of the issue trough intense on this thread... and they have contacted injected and only touched basic points. I am not sure what resolution you are asking for as in the sense as if there was some "war' going on... but again people are here to help you out, but as i suggested...maybe you mean something like looking to swap/upgrade to the gt37r..i dunno
And i guess since this is starting to look like a semantics game, i guess ill make a pass at this a "simple semi-built short block and a upgraded fuel-system ":
simple semi-built short block :
just pistons & rods, bearings...same heads... stock gastket... that was used on the 76S setup. No crazy head mods or no expensive pistons or anything are needed to have a very lightly build block that can take a lot of power on the VQ this days. so whats wrong with saying that?
Upgraded fuel system
fuel return w/fpr, walboro.... 800cc+ injectors... twin pump, i don't think so intense had one in the car but that was because they were doing other kind of testing.
tell me if you need more in the fuel system or on your engine to make 650whp or even 700whp?.
when was the last time you saw a greddy, hks, aps a dyno showing max dyno numbers at all?... tell me if pl did what other vendors have here with an claim on HP levels for their products with no numbers or dyno sheet ever produced. Tell me how does the 1/4 miles times otherwise doesn't just alone disprove any insinuations going here...this isn't intense 1st rodeo at this, they have posted the best way to validate the numbers and have track tested it... the kit is proved. If i hear someone saying they can put down 600whp and only runs 12s then u could see where the problem is.
as far a builds with pl kits and reaching 600 heck i think jermey did it...marra did it... snyperz did it although on the gt37r and curves identical to anything reported by powerlab...
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 05-20-2010 at 07:05 AM.
05-20-2010, 07:13 AM
#102
errr, ok
listen i understand you are frustraded and from what i can see people are tryign to help you out, till the thread PL not intense were contacted and they have contact injected....both shops have experience with high whp build for many years and none of this is their 1st rodeo.... the 653 as other high dyno numbers (such as the 1500whp supra) dont on that came from that dyno are:
-on video
-came directly out of a dynojet that doesnt allow any kind of % adjustments and as you can see on the dynosheet i psoted back on zero smoothing. This is why dynojets are more industry standard to compare numbers.
-the kit achieved 11 secs @ 125 mph
...i am not sure what kind of proof you are talking about here that is missing. I am not sure how is it not normal to max out the psi you can run when trying to reach high power numers on c16....
I am think u could also try and see if you can get the upgrade to a gt37r on a trade or something to help you reach the numbers too, peopel are on the thread here to help you out, , when you said "They can easily pm me here at this site but I have not heard from them. I have spoken with Injected and they stated that they have spoken but not resolution was reached. Hal will be able to post the objective findings after this weekend on the engine, pressure testing of the system, dynos, AITs, and backpressure on the hot side of the system. "
I am nto sure what kind of resolution youa re talking about... powerlab was made aware of the issue trhoguh intense on thsi thread... and they ahve contacted hal and only touches basiss...i am nto sure what resolution youa re asking for... but again peopel are here to help you out, but i am nto sure what resolution youa re looking to get... as i suggested...maybe you mean somethign like looking to swap/upgrade to the gt37r..i dunno
And i guess since this is starting to look like a semantics game, i guess ill make a pass at this a "simple semi-built short block and a upgraded fuel-system ":
simple semi-built short block :
just pistons & rods, bearings...same heads... stock gastket... that was used on the 76S setup. No crazy head mods or no expensive pistons or anythign are needed to have a very lightly build block that can take a lot of power on the VQ this days. so whats wrong with saying that?
Upgraded fuel system
fuel return w/fpr, walboro.... 800cc+ injectors... twinpump, i dont think so intense had one in the car but that was because they were doing other kind of testing.
tell me if you need more in the fuel system or on your engine to make 650whp or even 700whp?.
when was the last time you saw a greddy, hks, aps a dyno showing max dyno numbers at all?... tell me if pl did what other vendors have here with an claim on HP levels for their products with no numbers or dynosheet ever produced. Tell me how does the 1/4 miles times otherwise doesnt just alone disprove any insinuations going here...this isnt intense 1st rodeo at this, they have posted the best way to validate the numbers and have track tested it... the kit is proven. If i hear soemone saying they can put down 600whp and only runs 12s then u could see where the problem is.
as far a builds with pl kits and reachign 600 heck i think jermey did it...marra did it... snyperz did it although on the gt37r and curves identitcal to anythign reported by powerlab...
listen i understand you are frustraded and from what i can see people are tryign to help you out, till the thread PL not intense were contacted and they have contact injected....both shops have experience with high whp build for many years and none of this is their 1st rodeo.... the 653 as other high dyno numbers (such as the 1500whp supra) dont on that came from that dyno are:
-on video
-came directly out of a dynojet that doesnt allow any kind of % adjustments and as you can see on the dynosheet i psoted back on zero smoothing. This is why dynojets are more industry standard to compare numbers.
-the kit achieved 11 secs @ 125 mph
...i am not sure what kind of proof you are talking about here that is missing. I am not sure how is it not normal to max out the psi you can run when trying to reach high power numers on c16....
I am think u could also try and see if you can get the upgrade to a gt37r on a trade or something to help you reach the numbers too, peopel are on the thread here to help you out, , when you said "They can easily pm me here at this site but I have not heard from them. I have spoken with Injected and they stated that they have spoken but not resolution was reached. Hal will be able to post the objective findings after this weekend on the engine, pressure testing of the system, dynos, AITs, and backpressure on the hot side of the system. "
I am nto sure what kind of resolution youa re talking about... powerlab was made aware of the issue trhoguh intense on thsi thread... and they ahve contacted hal and only touches basiss...i am nto sure what resolution youa re asking for... but again peopel are here to help you out, but i am nto sure what resolution youa re looking to get... as i suggested...maybe you mean somethign like looking to swap/upgrade to the gt37r..i dunno
And i guess since this is starting to look like a semantics game, i guess ill make a pass at this a "simple semi-built short block and a upgraded fuel-system ":
simple semi-built short block :
just pistons & rods, bearings...same heads... stock gastket... that was used on the 76S setup. No crazy head mods or no expensive pistons or anythign are needed to have a very lightly build block that can take a lot of power on the VQ this days. so whats wrong with saying that?
Upgraded fuel system
fuel return w/fpr, walboro.... 800cc+ injectors... twinpump, i dont think so intense had one in the car but that was because they were doing other kind of testing.
tell me if you need more in the fuel system or on your engine to make 650whp or even 700whp?.
when was the last time you saw a greddy, hks, aps a dyno showing max dyno numbers at all?... tell me if pl did what other vendors have here with an claim on HP levels for their products with no numbers or dynosheet ever produced. Tell me how does the 1/4 miles times otherwise doesnt just alone disprove any insinuations going here...this isnt intense 1st rodeo at this, they have posted the best way to validate the numbers and have track tested it... the kit is proven. If i hear soemone saying they can put down 600whp and only runs 12s then u could see where the problem is.
as far a builds with pl kits and reachign 600 heck i think jermey did it...marra did it... snyperz did it although on the gt37r and curves identitcal to anythign reported by powerlab...
05-20-2010, 07:20 AM
#103
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WTF are you talking about? What's crazy about a Tial 44mm wastegate (the same as in all PowerLab kits, including yours) and a boost solenoid controlled by a ProEFI 48PIN EMS? Please explain/clarify for us.Your choice of words for the thread title was poor and misleading enough, but now this?!?
05-20-2010, 07:22 AM
#104
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I am curious as to what resolution the OP is expecting from PowerLab as well on this. PowerLab and Intense did not install the kit nor tune it.
No promises were made on theirs or our end of things to make over 500WHP on pump gas.
We are not at war with you or Injected actually quite the contrary. Injected was contacted to see if any help could be provided but, they are a perfectly capable shop.
So again I ask what is it that you are REALLY looking for on here? (Resolution?)
The OP's title is very misleading and I believe it is absolutely intentional. I will repeat that there was ZERO misrepresentation on ours or PowerLabs part in your purchasing of the kit so the resolution should be?
The title should read "MY car wont make 500WHEEL on pump gas with a powerlab turbo kit" That would be much more honest since were talking semantics here.
Our car had stock sleeves, pistons rods, cams, stock gaskets and a return fuel system with twin pump.
What is so special about it? It sounds semi built and simple to me considering there are folks being coerced on this site to spend upwards of 20k on motor builds to make this power.
I understand the OP is upset that HIS expectations weren't met This has ZERO to do with us or PowerLab again. I will help however; we can but, what is a realistic expectation on the OP's part from us to him.
If my post comes off as frustrated it's because we are based on the whole situation here. LMK what YOU/OP want from us.
(Obviously something is going on either with install or elsewhere based on high AIT's and not being able to boost more than 13lbs.)
Over 900 wheel was made on the same intercooler and piping of this 35r kit btw, think it was mentioned before. Theres video of this too on youtube. No mickey mousing or hiding anything on it.
No promises were made on theirs or our end of things to make over 500WHP on pump gas.
We are not at war with you or Injected actually quite the contrary. Injected was contacted to see if any help could be provided but, they are a perfectly capable shop.
So again I ask what is it that you are REALLY looking for on here? (Resolution?)
The OP's title is very misleading and I believe it is absolutely intentional. I will repeat that there was ZERO misrepresentation on ours or PowerLabs part in your purchasing of the kit so the resolution should be?
The title should read "MY car wont make 500WHEEL on pump gas with a powerlab turbo kit" That would be much more honest since were talking semantics here.
Our car had stock sleeves, pistons rods, cams, stock gaskets and a return fuel system with twin pump.
What is so special about it? It sounds semi built and simple to me considering there are folks being coerced on this site to spend upwards of 20k on motor builds to make this power.
I understand the OP is upset that HIS expectations weren't met This has ZERO to do with us or PowerLab again. I will help however; we can but, what is a realistic expectation on the OP's part from us to him.
If my post comes off as frustrated it's because we are based on the whole situation here. LMK what YOU/OP want from us.
(Obviously something is going on either with install or elsewhere based on high AIT's and not being able to boost more than 13lbs.)
Over 900 wheel was made on the same intercooler and piping of this 35r kit btw, think it was mentioned before. Theres video of this too on youtube. No mickey mousing or hiding anything on it.
05-20-2010, 07:27 AM
#105
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This seems pretty obvious to me. 35r's consistantly put down over 600whp on ANY platform....Z, Supra, EVO....whatever the platform. Nevermind the fact that kit went 11.0 @ 128mph. So why question the kit? Unless there is a turbo problem, the kit is capable of what it is. The rest is installation (boost leaks etc...). High EGT's is a really good indicator of a boost leak guys, nothing new there. I'm pretty sure Injected knows how to tune, so my bet is a boost leak of sorts somewhere, and probably a pretty good one too. What RPM does it make peak boost? A 35r should be on the gate by about 3k (7psi spring). If not...you have a leak, or a bad turbo.
My .02c
My .02c
05-20-2010, 07:29 AM
#106
WTF are you talking about? What's crazy about a Tial 44mm wastegate (the same as in all PowerLab kits, including yours) and a boost solenoid controlled by a ProEFI 48PIN EMS? Please explain/clarify for us.Your choice of words for the thread title was poor and misleading enough, but now this?!?
Hey OP,
Still waiting for you to clarify what you meant when you said "crazy boost controller/wastegate setup".
If you continue to ignore this and not explain what you meant, I can only conclude that your intent is to discredit and flame rather than seek a genuine resolution with your PowerLab kit.
Last edited by RudeG_v2.0; 05-20-2010 at 07:34 AM.
05-20-2010, 07:32 AM
#107
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BUMP
Still waiting for you to clarify what you meant when you said "crazy boost controller/wastegate setup".
If you continue to ignore this and not explain what you meant, I can only conclude that the intent is to discredit and flame rather than seek a genuine resolution.
Still waiting for you to clarify what you meant when you said "crazy boost controller/wastegate setup".
If you continue to ignore this and not explain what you meant, I can only conclude that the intent is to discredit and flame rather than seek a genuine resolution.
WHAT CRAZY boost controller were we running, I am curious because I was IN THE CAR when it was making these runs on the dyno. We didnt have anything wild, it was controlled by boost solenoid via the engine management system.
BTW what would a CRAZY boost controller have to do with the numbers being the numbers. We ran 29psi controlled on race gas for the 653 Wheel run.
Nothing being hidden here.
Last edited by IntenseSales; 05-20-2010 at 08:02 AM.
05-20-2010, 08:49 AM
#108
I still think you should try to heat wrap your charge pipes.
There are some tidbits of info about high AITs in this thread.
https://my350z.com/forum/6345715-post1.html
https://my350z.com/forum/6277969-post231.html
There are some tidbits of info about high AITs in this thread.
https://my350z.com/forum/6345715-post1.html
https://my350z.com/forum/6277969-post231.html
Last edited by str8dum1; 05-20-2010 at 09:19 AM.
05-20-2010, 09:31 AM
#109
Injected performance has done the complete project including the build and the tuning. The kit was on the car for ~5000 miles prior to the build project and made excellent power at 8 lbs of boost ~4oohp/400 torque. Hal at injected was the tuner who originally perform the stock motor tune.
This is one of the primary reason why I purchased this particular turbo kit, along with the shops recommendations and knowledge of how the gt35r has performed on other platforms. I never believed that I would achieve 650 whp on pumped gas but felt that the kit would produce ~500-550 whp. I had discussed this with the original shop that the kit was purchased and the guy from Injected before I pulled the trigger on the engine build.
- There are only a few PowerLab dealers. Who did you consult and purchase the kit from?
- Did the shop you purchased the kit from also do the install on your stock block? If not, who did?
- It sounds like Injected installed the built motor. Is that correct? If so, wouldn't they have to partially disassemble and reinstall the PowerLab kit to do the motor swap? If Injected wasn't the original installer and since the kit had ~5000 miles on it, did they thoroughly inspect the kit (check piping for both leaks & obstructions, check gaskets, check couplers, check O-rings, inspect wastegate, inspect turbo) prior to reassembling it to the built motor?
Last edited by RudeG_v2.0; 05-20-2010 at 09:37 AM.
05-20-2010, 10:22 AM
#111
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You say WE're as if YOU'VE done anything to attempt to help out the OP.
I've seen nothing helpful on your part actually in this thread. I don't know you and have no bones with you (other than useless non helpful posts in here egging on... you know what you're up to and so do we) but, I speak the truth.
I haven't seen the OP respond to me with what is a realistic resolution that he is looking for from PowerLab on this situation. Maybe awaiting some consultation on what he should say or ask for?
Unsure but, I am waiting to HELP.
05-20-2010, 10:26 AM
#112
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I am also curious as to why more boost is not able to be achieved?
This seems to be an issue that is being over looked in this as well.
BTW should there be something wrong with any component in this kit it is all covered under manufacture warranty... Deatschwerks, Garret, Tial, PowerLab, etc. (Plenty of resolution to be had if there is actually something wrong with any hard parts.
This seems to be an issue that is being over looked in this as well.
BTW should there be something wrong with any component in this kit it is all covered under manufacture warranty... Deatschwerks, Garret, Tial, PowerLab, etc. (Plenty of resolution to be had if there is actually something wrong with any hard parts.
Beat me to it!
05-20-2010, 11:12 AM
#117
..what??
.. thanks for making them nice and big so I cann see?
and what exactly do you know whats happening out of this thread, through PMs etc.... the answer is nothing.. ( im just sayin )
you speak the truth? so speak it... what exactly do you know what im up to? wtf
you know nothing...
( other than my miss understanding with Rude_G , which me and him cleared and discussed NOT in this thread )
BUT... if your wondering that IAM BASHING your company, you got it ALL wrong Darren.. I am not. you say you have done no business with me, but you actually have.. Ive dealt with you a bunch of times and I have bought from you.. and I have nothing but positive things to say about you/company.
no reason to quote/say I havnt dont anything
if you think im bashing you still, and you want to discuss it... feel free to PM me.
.. thanks for making them nice and big so I cann see?
and what exactly do you know whats happening out of this thread, through PMs etc.... the answer is nothing.. ( im just sayin )
you speak the truth? so speak it... what exactly do you know what im up to? wtf
you know nothing...
( other than my miss understanding with Rude_G , which me and him cleared and discussed NOT in this thread )
BUT... if your wondering that IAM BASHING your company, you got it ALL wrong Darren.. I am not. you say you have done no business with me, but you actually have.. Ive dealt with you a bunch of times and I have bought from you.. and I have nothing but positive things to say about you/company.
no reason to quote/say I havnt dont anything
if you think im bashing you still, and you want to discuss it... feel free to PM me.
You say WE're as if YOU'VE done anything to attempt to help out the OP.
I've seen nothing helpful on your part actually in this thread. I don't know you and have no bones with you (other than useless non helpful posts in here egging on... you know what you're up to and so do we) but, I speak the truth.
I haven't seen the OP respond to me with what is a realistic resolution that he is looking for from PowerLab on this situation. Maybe awaiting some consultation on what he should say or ask for?
Unsure but, I am waiting to HELP.
I've seen nothing helpful on your part actually in this thread. I don't know you and have no bones with you (other than useless non helpful posts in here egging on... you know what you're up to and so do we) but, I speak the truth.
I haven't seen the OP respond to me with what is a realistic resolution that he is looking for from PowerLab on this situation. Maybe awaiting some consultation on what he should say or ask for?
Unsure but, I am waiting to HELP.
05-20-2010, 11:15 AM
#118
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wait, i'm lost at something so i'm sure others are.
this is how i undertand things:
powerlab kit installed on stock block= who did this?
tuned on a dyno at injected performance
built block installed
powerlab kit re-installed (who did this? injected said it was brought to them together)
kit dynoed at injected performance
so basically, like everyone has been saying THERE IS SOMETHING PROBABLY WRONG WITH THE INSTALL!
Since neither of the professional shops re-installed the kit how do they know that someone didn't damage an impeller fin when the kit was off or leave a rag in a pipe?
why is it some huge secret of who tore down the turbo kit and re-installed it on the built block? obviously this should be the area of concern. damaged parts or something incorrect about the install.
this is how i undertand things:
powerlab kit installed on stock block= who did this?
tuned on a dyno at injected performance
built block installed
powerlab kit re-installed (who did this? injected said it was brought to them together)
kit dynoed at injected performance
so basically, like everyone has been saying THERE IS SOMETHING PROBABLY WRONG WITH THE INSTALL!
Since neither of the professional shops re-installed the kit how do they know that someone didn't damage an impeller fin when the kit was off or leave a rag in a pipe?
why is it some huge secret of who tore down the turbo kit and re-installed it on the built block? obviously this should be the area of concern. damaged parts or something incorrect about the install.
05-20-2010, 11:20 AM
#119
wait, i'm lost at something so i'm sure others are.
this is how i undertand things:
powerlab kit installed on stock block= who did this?
tuned on a dyno at injected performance
built block installed
powerlab kit re-installed (who did this? injected said it was brought to them together)
kit dynoed at injected performance
so basically, like everyone has been saying THERE IS SOMETHING PROBABLY WRONG WITH THE INSTALL!
Since neither of the professional shops re-installed the kit how do they know that someone didn't damage an impeller fin when the kit was off or leave a rag in a pipe?
why is it some huge secret of who tore down the turbo kit and re-installed it on the built block? obviously this should be the area of concern. damaged parts or something incorrect about the install.
this is how i undertand things:
powerlab kit installed on stock block= who did this?
tuned on a dyno at injected performance
built block installed
powerlab kit re-installed (who did this? injected said it was brought to them together)
kit dynoed at injected performance
so basically, like everyone has been saying THERE IS SOMETHING PROBABLY WRONG WITH THE INSTALL!
Since neither of the professional shops re-installed the kit how do they know that someone didn't damage an impeller fin when the kit was off or leave a rag in a pipe?
why is it some huge secret of who tore down the turbo kit and re-installed it on the built block? obviously this should be the area of concern. damaged parts or something incorrect about the install.
thats why I quoted Rude_G... .
Last edited by Vas_Z33; 05-20-2010 at 11:50 AM.
05-20-2010, 11:40 AM
#120
wait, i'm lost at something so i'm sure others are.
this is how i undertand things:
powerlab kit installed on stock block= who did this?
tuned on a dyno at injected performance
built block installed
powerlab kit re-installed (who did this? injected said it was brought to them together)
kit dynoed at injected performance
so basically, like everyone has been saying THERE IS SOMETHING PROBABLY WRONG WITH THE INSTALL!
Since neither of the professional shops re-installed the kit how do they know that someone didn't damage an impeller fin when the kit was off or leave a rag in a pipe?
why is it some huge secret of who tore down the turbo kit and re-installed it on the built block? obviously this should be the area of concern. damaged parts or something incorrect about the install.
this is how i undertand things:
powerlab kit installed on stock block= who did this?
tuned on a dyno at injected performance
built block installed
powerlab kit re-installed (who did this? injected said it was brought to them together)
kit dynoed at injected performance
so basically, like everyone has been saying THERE IS SOMETHING PROBABLY WRONG WITH THE INSTALL!
Since neither of the professional shops re-installed the kit how do they know that someone didn't damage an impeller fin when the kit was off or leave a rag in a pipe?
why is it some huge secret of who tore down the turbo kit and re-installed it on the built block? obviously this should be the area of concern. damaged parts or something incorrect about the install.
That's the gist of what I was pointing out and trying to clarify with my last post.
Last edited by RudeG_v2.0; 05-20-2010 at 11:47 AM.