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I've always been curious about just running the 100mm pulley without the restrictor even on a stock motor, especially with proper exhaust modifications. I get that they don't suggest doing that on a stock motor, but at your power level you legitimately have room for about 125-150 more whp even on a stock motor, as long as torque is kept in check.
I've wondered the same thing, Renfro. The problem is the only lever I'd have to mitigate torque is ignition timing, and there's only so much timing you can take out before it starts creating problems. So at some point it's possible to hit an ignition retard limit that still overwhelms the rods.
It would also concern me how much unnecessary chamber heat (even with E85) I'm creating due to higher boost that I can't even capitalise on, if I'm pulling timing way back. Very inefficient. Knowing I've got a hard limit around 400whp, I'd rather try to reach it with the least amount of boost and maximum timing. If I open the restrictor and miss the mark by a bit, I'll live with it until I build. If I overshoot the ideal boost slightly and have to pull some timing, then that's okay too.
I'm curious about going unrestricted but I'd need guidance from a REALLY experienced VQ engine builder. And even then it's a bit of faith. My current tuner only has experience with built VQs unfortunately.
I've wondered the same thing, Renfro. The problem is the only lever I'd have to mitigate torque is ignition timing, and there's only so much timing you can take out before it starts creating problems. So at some point it's possible to hit an ignition retard limit that still overwhelms the rods.
It would also concern me how much unnecessary chamber heat (even with E85) I'm creating due to higher boost that I can't even capitalise on, if I'm pulling timing way back. Very inefficient. Knowing I've got a hard limit around 400whp, I'd rather try to reach it with the least amount of boost and maximum timing. If I open the restrictor and miss the mark by a bit, I'll live with it until I build. If I overshoot the ideal boost slightly and have to pull some timing, then that's okay too.
I'm curious about going unrestricted but I'd need guidance from a REALLY experienced VQ engine builder. And even then it's a bit of faith. My current tuner only has experience with built VQs unfortunately.
Totally understand your points. What did the car make for wtq? Generally, it's the torque, and that introduction of torque into the motor we have to watch out for. Depending on the car setup as a whole, you might be able to hit 450+whp as long as the torque is under 400. Not sure about the HKS though as it might be more torquey vs other supercharger kits.
Another thought to consider is having a wastegate installed on your charge piping with a boost controller. Basically run it like a turbo, but put maybe a 4psi spring it in and then use the controller for the rest to keep things in check. Nice part about that is you can run the smaller pulley and no restrictor (still assuming torque isn't too much of a factor) and reach your desired boost level sooner vs at redline.
Would give you more tuning options to get it right where you want it. I know there have been others that have done similar things on a supercharger setup. Pretty unique!
Totally understand your points. What did the car make for wtq? Generally, it's the torque, and that introduction of torque into the motor we have to watch out for. Depending on the car setup as a whole, you might be able to hit 450+whp as long as the torque is under 400. Not sure about the HKS though as it might be more torquey vs other supercharger kits.
Another thought to consider is having a wastegate installed on your charge piping with a boost controller. Basically run it like a turbo, but put maybe a 4psi spring it in and then use the controller for the rest to keep things in check. Nice part about that is you can run the smaller pulley and no restrictor (still assuming torque isn't too much of a factor) and reach your desired boost level sooner vs at redline.
Would give you more tuning options to get it right where you want it. I know there have been others that have done similar things on a supercharger setup. Pretty unique!
Great minds.... I went down that rabbit hole too. I stopped as soon as I put cost into the equation, particularly given it's only a work around for while it's a stock bottom end. Once built the wastegate would be redundant
I'm touching base with the tuner today to see if I can get a better graph, but I'm betting torque wasn't even close to 400.
In hindsight I should've bought both pulleys and just installed the 110mm for now. Would've been cheaper than tuning twice. But, science.
I figured I'd join this thread since I have a similar build in the works. I have a 2006 G35 Coupe with a revup motor being built with 11:1 CR and Carillo SuperAs for a reinforced bottom end. After I get the car back I'll be installing a bigger fuel pump, CJM S0 FRS thats on back order, and my HKS SC with an E85 tune planned. Really similar to OP's build except for the built motor, so I plan to run the 100mm pulley and no restrictor right off the bat.
Does anyone have recommendations on if an E85 content reader is really required? My understanding is that not E85 is created equal and can have substantially different ethanol percentages. I'll be tuned on UpRev which doesn't have the ability to do true flex fuel tuning, so I assume I could have different maps tuned for different percentage ranges and switch maps if needed? I'm still narrowing down a tuner in the SoCal area but one of them recommended the content reader when called.
I figured I'd join this thread since I have a similar build in the works. I have a 2006 G35 Coupe with a revup motor being built with 11:1 CR and Carillo SuperAs for a reinforced bottom end. After I get the car back I'll be installing a bigger fuel pump, CJM S0 FRS thats on back order, and my HKS SC with an E85 tune planned. Really similar to OP's build except for the built motor, so I plan to run the 100mm pulley and no restrictor right off the bat.
Does anyone have recommendations on if an E85 content reader is really required? My understanding is that not E85 is created equal and can have substantially different ethanol percentages. I'll be tuned on UpRev which doesn't have the ability to do true flex fuel tuning, so I assume I could have different maps tuned for different percentage ranges and switch maps if needed? I'm still narrowing down a tuner in the SoCal area but one of them recommended the content reader when called.
That's awesome. Did you buy the Super As through Z1/CZP out of curiousity?
You called out the main reason for installing a sensor. There can be a significant difference in ethanol content at the pump. Here "E85" can mean anything between E70 and E85. First time I fuelled up I had a bit of 98 left in the tank and ended up at around E76. Next couple of times I filled up I've been dead on E70. Apparently it's a thing in winter because ethanol makes for bad cold starts.
The experience out there suggests there isn't much difference in impacts of ignition timing between say E70 and E85, but it's enough of a difference on the amount of fuel required to meet AFR. And probably too much of a stretch for a closed loop system to manage. Hence the need for blend tables.
I was unfortunate that I had to tune on E70 so we had to do a bit of guess work to account for a tank of E85.
If you tune on E85 it's the safest. As the ethanol content goes down, without adjusting to a blend table, your AFR with become increasingly rich. At E60 I imagine it'd be noticeable.
Be curious to hear how others have managed pump ethanol without an aftermarket ECU?
This is also one of my main concerns with E85, especially at the pump. Firstly, my car will sit for several days/weeks on occasion depending on my schedule. Last thing I want is for the E to sit in the tank like that. I am also on Uprev for now, but if I did ever decide to make the jump to use pump E, it would be on a standalone with flex sensor (a pretty big expense jump) that would also require more fuel pump and injector.
Currently, I'm just on a 93 pump gas map and a 93+boostane map. Half a can of the boostane professional to a tank and there's enough octane to handle whatever I'd throw at it.
I figured I'd join this thread since I have a similar build in the works. I have a 2006 G35 Coupe with a revup motor being built with 11:1 CR and Carillo SuperAs for a reinforced bottom end. After I get the car back I'll be installing a bigger fuel pump, CJM S0 FRS thats on back order, and my HKS SC with an E85 tune planned. Really similar to OP's build except for the built motor, so I plan to run the 100mm pulley and no restrictor right off the bat.
Does anyone have recommendations on if an E85 content reader is really required? My understanding is that not E85 is created equal and can have substantially different ethanol percentages. I'll be tuned on UpRev which doesn't have the ability to do true flex fuel tuning, so I assume I could have different maps tuned for different percentage ranges and switch maps if needed? I'm still narrowing down a tuner in the SoCal area but one of them recommended the content reader when called.
Tune the car on E70 for safety. Then when you do actually get E85 you'll just be even safer. An E70 tune will run fine on E85.
That's awesome. Did you buy the Super As through Z1/CZP out of curiousity?
You called out the main reason for installing a sensor. There can be a significant difference in ethanol content at the pump. Here "E85" can mean anything between E70 and E85. First time I fuelled up I had a bit of 98 left in the tank and ended up at around E76. Next couple of times I filled up I've been dead on E70. Apparently it's a thing in winter because ethanol makes for bad cold starts.
The experience out there suggests there isn't much difference in impacts of ignition timing between say E70 and E85, but it's enough of a difference on the amount of fuel required to meet AFR. And probably too much of a stretch for a closed loop system to manage. Hence the need for blend tables.
I was unfortunate that I had to tune on E70 so we had to do a bit of guess work to account for a tank of E85.
If you tune on E85 it's the safest. As the ethanol content goes down, without adjusting to a blend table, your AFR with become increasingly rich. At E60 I imagine it'd be noticeable.
Be curious to hear how others have managed pump ethanol without an aftermarket ECU?
Yes I purchased the engine rebuild kiit from Z1 but sourced most of the components from them, CZP, and a few other online vendors. Unfortunately the fuel return system kit is still on back order and I'm hesistant to do the fuel pump and SC kit install unless I can do it properly the first time.
93 isn't available in California so my bid for E85 is to provide a safety buffer for the combination of boost and slightly raised compression. The tuner I talked to initially apparently has done different tables for 4 of the maps based on ethanol content and can do a 5th "limp mode" to hopefully get the car to safety if I end up stranded somewhere without E85. Hopefully that number happens!
@Pazich Nice one. I can see my impatience getting the better of me so I'll probably start buying parts for the build soon. AUD-US exchange rate has taken a beating lately so that may be my main reason for holding off.
Took the car out for a country drive yesterday with the missus and gave it a few blasts. Even at 246wkw (for now), it's a lot of fun. I'm just waiting on booking the next tuning slot to figure out when I'll mod the restrictor.
I need to get my rear arches rolled because I'm at maximum height on my springs and a decent bump will get it rubbing. They are perfectly flush, which I like, so I don't want to change the wheels.
I ended up installing the C-F-M breather, which at the time was advertised for 2003-2008 350Zs... Turns out they didn't test it on pre-HR hoods so it gets crushed unfortunately. I guess it still kind of works, but I don't like that there's contact between it and the hood still.
I brought it to their attention, which is when they confirmed that testing on earlier models weren't with stock hoods (lol), but they were good about it. They apologised, gave me a refund and updated the product description.
I don't think I showed an installed shot of the printed gauge cluster. I think it turned out pretty well. The oil pressure sensor is also wired via analog to the ECU for logging and safety. I went through the whole process of building a custom power/CAN harness to wire both gauges to the ECU only to find out right after that AEM runs at a different bitrate. Link and Haltech (my wideband controller) are both native 1mb/s where AEM runs on 500kb/s. So I had to settle on analog. I'll buy a CAN gauge eventually to monitor... things... but that's a low priority for now.
The big news is that I finally published my first video in the install series:
At a guess, there'll be around 6-10 videos in total.
I'm not going to make a bunch of excuses (presenting ain't my forte), but I will say in hindsight I wished I'd planned more when getting the footage because now I just have to work with what I've got, but hopefully someone out there finds it useful. It's frustrating to think of all the things I haven't filmed, even during this process but is what it is. Eventually I want to spend some time on going through the process of design and application of 3D printing parts for cars.
So I opened up the restrictor from 48mm to 58mm. For reference, unrestricted is 75mm (15psi) so my quick maths suggested 58mm should fall around 10psi, assuming a linear increase in size to pressure. It's probably not, but I doubt it will be hugely out
It wasn't easy, but I was able remove/install the plate without removing the SC (which would have meant disassembly of several other components) thank God. All I had to remove was the intake pipe and then modify a couple of allen keys to get at the 3 bolts that connect the cast pipe to the SC housing.
I ended up using the die grinder on it at home. It was pretty painless and a clean finish if I do say so myself.
I took the car for a quick squirt around the neighbourhood, going as high as 4000 rpm. It definitely felt more lively, but no night and day difference. Closed loop seemed to be handling the AFR against target just fine. I didn't touch the timing (yet) and no knock detected.
Tune is booked for next week. Now I just have to fight the urge to open it up further before then...
I suspect where I've landed will be <10psi, but I think I can live with that (famous last words). It needs to be able to do track days reliably and Z1's 427whp @12psi is pushing it past my comfort level (even though it doesn't hit 400ft-lbs).
Okay, I'm feeling pretty good about the 58mm restrictor. Without touching the fuel or ignition maps, I've taken the car out for increasingly harder runs. No knock, temps are great and AFRs are staying on target (with close loop lambda working a little harder). Just hit 8.3psi @5300rpm and 75% throttle... I might (probably) take it out for a harder run or two before the retune on Wed but looks like I'll be around 10psi capable! Woo hoo!
Part 2 of the install series for anyone interested:
Back from the tuners. 292kW/390hp. Wish I could get an engine speed readout but is what it is.
We actually added a little timing to the previous map by the time we were done. Final run (below) maxed out at 9.5psi @ 5800 rpm. 100% TPS ramp started at 1.7psi @ 2000rpm through to 8.7psi @ 6875rpm.
We spent a little time afterwards focusing on accel enrichment and idle settings, but I'm very happy with where I've landed. Throttle response is excellent. Feels great to drive, even if it is a comparatively 'unrefined' car these days.
And also, shout out to @OldManZ350 for sharing his Link knock settings; helped to improve the calibration.
09-10-2022, 11:56 PM
