I dont see the regs which one is it?

 

Not sure, maybe someone else who knows where it is can chime in. I did read about this though, can't remember if it was on the Natural Air Resources Board or not. but definitely post the site if you find it. I'll keep checking around...

 

All I saw was several vaguely worded documents regarding testing result standards. I did not see anything that blatantly said you must keep the cats in the stock location..

 

Actually this is not a price issue, it is a design/configuration matter.

If you need/want what the The Turbonetics kit offers, or something of equal design, then you want that kit/design.

If you need/want what the APS kit or something of equal design, then you want the APS kit/design.

These are completely different products/designs, it's like comparing red apples to pineapples and then asking the price of the pineapples to come down because red apples are cheaper.

 

Uh, I was joking about the price I don't even want to think about starting a comparison between the two. I'm only offering information relevant to what APS said about the cats. Here's some more info as well, concerning criminal matters if you purposefully run illegal "contaminants". If you don't want to believe it, then I'm sorry but that's the law. p.s. I'm a specialist in a law firm... I don't mean at all to pop any one's balloon here, I'm just helping out the ignorant.

HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE
Division 26 Air Resources
§ 42400.1. Negligent emission of air contaminants; Operation of source of contaminants which causes actual injury; Criminal sanctions
(a) Any person who negligently emits an air contaminant in violation of any provision of this part or any rule, regulation, permit, or order of the state board or of a district pertaining to emission regulations or limitations is guilty of a misdemeanor and is punishable by a fine of not more than twenty-five thousand dollars ($25,000), or imprisonment in a county jail for not more than nine months, or by both that fine and imprisonment.

(b) Any person who negligently emits an air contaminant in violation of Section 41700 that causes great bodily injury, as defined by Section 12022.7 of the Penal Code, to, or death of, any person, is guilty of a misdemeanor and is punishable by a fine of not more than one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000), or imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year, or by both that fine and imprisonment.

(c) Each day during any portion of which a violation occurs is a separate offense.


Added Stats 1986 ch 1453 § 2. Amended Stats 1992 ch 1252 § 3 (AB 1572).
Amended Stats 2000 ch 805 § 4 (SB 1865).
Amended Stats 2001 ch 854 § 11 (SB 205).
References at the time of publication (see page iii):
Regulations: 17, CCR, section 94551

ANNOTATIONS

Amendments:

1992 Amendment:
(1) Amended subd (a) by (a) adding "permit," after "regulation,"; and (b) substituting "fifteen thousand dollars ($15,000)" for "ten thousand dollars ($10,000)"; (2) substituted "paragraph (2) of subdivision (d)" for "subdivision (c)" in subd (b); and (3) substituted "Section 42402, 42402.1, 42402.2, or 42402.3" for "Section 42402, 42402.1, or 42402.2," in subd (c).

2000 Amendment:
(1) Added "twenty-five thousand dollars ($25,000) or imprisonment in the county jail for not more than nine months, or both" in subd (a); (2) amended subd (b) by (a) substituting "negligently emits an air contaminant" for "owns or operates any source of air contaminants"; (b) substituting "that causes" for "which causes"; (c) substituting "great bodily" for "actual"; (d) substituting "subdivision (e) of Section 12022.7 of the Penal Code, to, or death of, any person," for "subdivision (d) of Section 42400.2, to the health or safety of a considerable number of persons or the public"; (e) substituting "subject to a fine of not more than one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) or imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year," for "punishable as provided in subdivision (a)"; and (3) deleted subd (d) which read: "(d) The recovery of civil penalties pursuant to Section 42402, 42402.1, 42402.2, or 42402.3 precludes prosecution pursuant to this section for the same offense. When a district refers a violation to a prosecuting agency, the filing of a criminal complaint is grounds requiring the dismissal of any civil action brought pursuant to this article for the same offense.".

2001 Amendment:
(1) Amended subd (a) by (a) substituting "punishable by" for "subject to"; (b) substituting "a county" for "the county"; (c) substituting "by both that fine and imprisonment" for "both"; (2) amended subd (b) by (a) deleting "subdivision (e) of" after "as defined by"; (b) substituting "punishable by" for "subject to"; (c) added the comma after "($250,000)"; (d) substituting "a county" for "the county"; and (e) substituting "by both that fine and imprisonment" for "both".
Collateral References:
Witkin & Epstein, Criminal Law (2d ed) § 1079

 

of course, the law may have been updated as of late too. Mia playa, I'm still looking for the statute on the cat positioning. I'll be sure to let you know when I find it. Please no one get defensive about my posts, purely information. Thanks

 

Thats cool but how does a law regarding the usage of contaminents influence anything in regards to this kit? Running no cat does not fall under the scope of that law as we are not adding and or removing any form of contaminent such that it would be considered using them and therefore violating the statute. What contaminents that are released are already part of the composition of the fuel we use and even the cat does not remove them but rather lessens the concentration of them...

 

It is true that we are not adding or removing "new" contaminants, but we are allowing a higher level of contaminant concentration into the environment. So, I believe the statue still applies.

My .02

 

There are laws about CATS alone, essentially CATS are required. Changing/Removing them is NOT allowed, regardless of the NET results.

I believe the law allows them to be replaced if damaged, 5 years or 50K miles, but even then I believe it states it must be the vehicle manufacturer product.

CATS serve their purpose as designed, so their goal, regardless of the "reality" of what the modification(s) produces, is not to allow modifications, which impact the CATS "as designed" without approval/exemption.

We all know our cars run clean without cats, this is where science and government, doesn't work well.

 

Sorry, don't mean to spark any controversy here. I don't want to go any more in depth, but I definitely will provide as much info as I come across it. I just figured some guys don't know what they're getting themselves into when they got a fireball coming out the back of their car in your local grocery store parking lot. From what I've encountered, it's pretty easy to get some firepuffs coming out the back anyways with an injen exhaust and test pipes. All they need now is something flammable to be behind them...ie. someone's hair (bending over to check out the exhaust when the driver's not watching nicely doed up with some flammable gel or a girl's skirt walking by)...Definitely don't get me wrong, I'm just as much interested in all the turbo kits for the Z as the next guy

 

I think you guys are stretching that statute way beyond the scope of its intent...The only laws you would be violating would be CARB orders and therefore vehicle code laws. That statutes scope is most certainly in the arena of expelling abnormal harmful contaminenets and causing damage ie Freon, Acetylin, things like that. Increasing the amount of what is already there is not covered in the intent of that law. This by the way has gone for beyond the scope of this thread. How bout somene create a new thread that has the intent of discussing this particular nuance further as opposed to going extremely off topic on this thread.

 

right on brotha!
back to the turbo we go....
whats the status?

 

i'm just glad i don't live in california and having to deal with those regulations.

 

Your telling me, I live IN Cali and have been pulled over for NO CATS... I already go fined so in reality having a non carb turbo kit can be problematic in the long run... which is another reason why I am waiting because I hate dealing with all the BS. Its not cool getting pulled over and having your sent over to the referree station.

 

As requested new thread for CARB / SMOG / SPECS / LEGAL

CARB & SMOG THREAD

 

Thanks joe...

Rob

 

at least you finally changed your signature to reflect it

 

What?

 

How much did they hit you with for the fine?

 

I copied some of these carb smog posts over to the thread, and I actually already asked this question, if we could move this part of this conversation over to that thread it would be nice.

Perhaps at some point, Mia you can get someone to move/delete these when possible.