n1cK!

iTrader: (21)

i jus' posted this in the suspension section, but in case some of you may miss it, i'll post it here as well. it has to do with the fact that the eibach and spc kits are the SAME:

same kits

n1cK!

ps-i'd post it over in g35driver.com, but i changed my e-mail and they haven't sent me the link to activate my account yet.

Burrcold

do you HAVE to drill with the SPC kit? I just purchased one but havent installed it yet. Just wondering what and why exactly you have to drill. And if it's really necessary.

n1cK!

iTrader: (21)

yes yes yes, you absolutely positively have to drill with the spc kit. you have to purchase a $50 bit from SPC, or if you already have it, then you don't. it's a rotary file, that you have to elongate one of the holes with. exactly why i didn't want to purchase the spc kit since you have to drill the hole. here are the install instructions straight from spc:

Quote:

8. Mark area to elongate hole with template provided and use #85126 Rotary file or equivalent to elongate slot. Check to make sure hole is the right size by placing the new bolt with a cam on the head into the hole, it should rotate 360 degrees.
9. Reinstall control arm by raising the vehicle slightly and install the bolt with a cam on either side. Install locknut and tighten slightly.

n1cK!

slaponte

iTrader: (2)

As I posted on the other thread, ANY kit that includes a larger cam bolt for toe adjustment will require you to elongate the hole for the bolt to move. There is just no other way to allow for further toe adjustment using cam bolts, which is the "proper" way to adjust Toe in the rear. Larger cam = farther movement = longer hole. Simple. You are not making anything weak, you are just making an elongated hole (it already is) a little bit longer.

protocav

iTrader: (3)

http://members.***.net/chadisrad/SPC.pdf


this is the writeup from my website. slaponte is correct that any kit that contains larger offset bolts will require grinding. it is required, however for toe adjustment.

nick, perhaps when you come to san diego, we can discuss this, and perhaps set you up with an install. check out my website.

Chad

n1cK!

iTrader: (21)

yeah, but why drill when you could just "bolt" ? i mean, the kinetix, or stillen's jus' bolt right on up there, and you jus' adjust it with the adjustment screw. sounds easier when needing to make adjustments later down the road.

i agree with you slaponte that if you need a larger cam bolt, you will need a larger bolt. but what makes it "proper" as opposed to a traction rod? both methods have been tried and true throughout history (cheesy choice of words, i know) and i can't see why one would be more "proper" than the other. for those who have severe toe problems, both types would compliment each other.

n1cK!

iTrader: (21)

slaponte, i see in your sig that you have the kinetix arms. are they not working as well for you as you thought? i am seriously considering them, but have heard that for those with an extreme drop, it doesn't bring you back into spec. in the other thread though, i stated that i'm not going to be all that much lower, so i think they should be fine for me. what's your take/review of them?

n1cK!

iTrader: (21)

and let me correct this statement before somone on the forums gets upset you have to "elongate" the pre-existing hole.

slaponte

iTrader: (2)

The right way, per Nissans tech spec of the car, to adjust the Toe is to adjust the cam bolt. If you look at the geometry of it, the cam bolt is moving the proper part in and out, while the traction rod is in an angle, so you are adjusting toe as a side effect. This is why many call them "traction arms" instead of "toe arms". Note that Nissan calls them "radius arms".

The bolt thing is not such a big deal. The hole is already elongated, you just have to "shave" off on the sides a few milimiters...

Re: rear camber arms : great looking, work perfect. Installed them and never had to worry again. and sturdy also.

Re: front cambers arms. I am happy with them, in that what I wanted was to bring my camber into spec. I do not track or race the car so I can't comment on their strength or durability, etc. One thing I noticed : on the stock arm upper joint there is a V shaped rubber piece which, on the Kinetix arms (due to a larger center bolt) you can't use. A washer and a nut sit flat on top but you end up with a hollow area under the washer. Kinetix states they aren't needed. All you have to do is tighten up the nut. I am sure for regular daily driving it should work fine, but in "spirited" or race conditions I would not feel so happy about it. It would be easily solved by cutting the piece to size and drilling a bigger hole in it. I really don't know why Kinetix just don't provide it and thats it. They must really fill you don't need it.

I am sorry I don't have a picture to show you, but if you take apart the front arms you will see the black rubber piece I am taking about.

Again, for racing opinion I would seek somebody with more knowledge on the matter. I like them myself and I got my camber perfect so I am happy. (I also got them used so I saved a few bucks).

protocav

iTrader: (3)

nick,
i think you are still a bit mistaken on how the rear suspension works. you really don't have a choice on how to adjust toe...there is only one way. the traction or radius rods do not adjust toe, they adjust caster. they are called toe rods, but that is wrong. all of the people that bough them have realized that you can't adjust toe with them. the toe bolts adjust toe, but in stock form, do not allow for enough adjustment if you are lowered a lot. the existing slots only have to be elongated slightly.

ANY KIT THAT SELLS TOE BOLTS THAT HAVE A LARGER OFFSET THAN THE STOCK ONES WILL REQUIRE THE ELONGATION OF THE EXISTING SLOTS.

there is no magic with any particular kit. there is a larger offset, and nowhere for the bolt to go, the slots have to be lengthened.

Chad

slaponte

iTrader: (2)

Hey N1ck, here is what I was trying to explain :



As you can see, this is the A arma installed as viewed from the end. The red cup covers the bottom of the upper link. You can see right under it there is a nut. Below it is a washer.

Then you see a part almost white with three niples on it. This is the upper end of the steering knuckle. That cup which inside is V shaped is hollow. Under it you see the huge nut that holds the arm in place.

OEM the "cup" has a rubber bushin inside it. You take it out because the huge bolt on the A arm won't allow space for it. The assumption is that preassure will not allow that upper washer and nut to slide side to side. In regular driving, maybe so. In a track or autocross, I don't know...

Also, see these thread : 350Z Tech thread on upper A arms

Really good tips on keeping it lubricated. (Using condoms!!)

n1cK!

iTrader: (21)

slaponte, thanks for your reviews of the kinetix arms. in looking at your picture, it jus' doesn't seem right. it jus' doesn't seem that they thought out the process of constructing the arm, and then gerry-rigged something to make it fit. i mean, that rubber bushing on top of the steering knuckle, should fit inside the cup, while a castle nut with cotter pin keeps it bolted down through the bottom.

chad, so you're saying that the kinetix traction rods actually change the caster, which is the "steering" axis (i know it's on the rear, but i think you get the point)? i haven't seen the orientation of these things in the car, so i'm not sure. well, if that's the case, then both of you are right. changing the caster too much will affect camber, and even straight line stability. well, i guess i won't be getting the traction/radius arms (whatever they want to call them) as changing the caster will effectively change the entire suspension geometry.

and for anyone reading wants to learn more and needs to know what the heck we're talkin' about, check out this site, it's really helpful for the basic stuff. i go back to it every now and then when i lose my bearings.

since i'm not dropped that much, i'll take it into and alignment shop and see how close they could get me into spec with the stock pieces (except for camber, that is definitely needed). then we'll go from there.

n1cK!

n1cK!

iTrader: (21)

oh by the way chad, that was a good write up. i grease my arms and shirt up even after i jus' vacuum the car (my wife likes it when i get dirty), ha ha ha!

slaponte

iTrader: (2)

You got it, N1ck. When you look at the traction arms under the car you will see what we are saying. The run forward and inwards in an angle off the rear axle, so when you adjust them you are pulling/rotating the axle forward in an angle, thats why you see some toe change, but it isn't really what they are trying to do. It then becomes a 3-way jigzaw puzzle to get the geometry in spec... :P WHat you really want is more toe adjustment range, this would be the hard way to go about it (in my humble opinion)... But must people need a minimum amount, and caster is not measured on the rear, so they go with this approach.

35oZephyR

iTrader: (4)

I have to agree,

Used Protocav's (chad) write up and the install was so much more clear with photos. I've never really done any serious suspension work but that was straight forward.
I even purchased the Dremel bit #115 for a few bucks. Cuts through the metal like butter, but I somehow broke my dremel when i let ping off something at low rpm(motor grinds now). God bless the extended warranty on the dremel!
Elongating the bolt holes was really no big deal. A few grinds and you're done. I recommend using the Dremel extender though, makes it easier to reach the tight spot, and you won't risk breaking your dremel like I did.

Installed them at the same time with the SPC camber arms.
Went to the allignment shop and everything was pulled together. The guys at the shop even mentioned how easy it was with the SPC arms and bolts when I got my car back.

Though I have to admit, if you've never been under your Z before get ready to spend some time under there. Prepare a six pack, no make that a twelve pack of beer.

I took my damn time, snack breaks in between, double-checking everything with a torque wrench so the install ran a few hours instead of one or two.

n1cK!

iTrader: (21)

hey zephyr, which alignment shop did you take it to? how were they? mine should be comin' in the next week or so. thanks.

ps-nice avatar, wow...

pps-hey chad, if you're readin' this (like you probably are), which alignment shop did you recommend again?

35oZephyR

iTrader: (4)

I took mines to Evan's Tire on Convoy. A guy by the name of Josh at the counter helped me out, that guy is cool.

I'm sure alot of the San Diego G/Z guys have gone there so they know the geometry of our cars really well. Jimhrit recommended that I go there. I now have the lifetime alignment program pending at their shop.

Really happy with everything.

protocav

iTrader: (3)

i too deal with evans tire on convoy. i have been there 5 times myself, and have sent about 10 guys there.

Chad

n1cK!

iTrader: (21)

well, i've finally bit the bullet and purchased the SPC kit from import auto performance along with a dremel and 115 bit. i'll be installing when it arrives sometime next week and will be takin' it to evans tire for the alignment. i'll let all know it it goes, but there shouldn't be any problems (i hope).

AZ350Z

iTrader: (5)

I may have to take a ride out to SD to hook up with Chad and Evans Tire guys. I really need this kit. I tried to buy it from the IAP site above, but couldnt find it.

I'll be in touch with you Chad.