Ah, some light at the end of the tunnel, perhaps. BTW, Hunter is the best in all auto alignments I've ever heard of, their opinions carry a lot of weight.

 

My update. Toe was out both front and rear. Have wear on all four tires. They did the alignment but the SM doesn't want to rotate the fronts because it isn't going to fix the noise problem. I asked for new tires. He agreed that I needed them and so did the alignment shop the performed the work. SM called Nissan and no luck. His suggestion to me was to call and file the complaint and ask for 4 new tires.

 

As you may know I have already had the feathering once. I called Nissan Consumer Affairs and finally got my 2 front tires replaced at no charge by the Bridgestone dealer (that was at 4200 miles). Now the tires are doing it again at 10k miles. I called Nissan Consumer Affairs again and they told me to go to a dealer Nissan dealer and get the car aligned and the toe adjusted. I did this again under warranty, so no charge to me. I called Nissan and told them what all my issues were - I had to replace the Bose head unit because it went out on me at 700miles, my airbag harness had to be replaced, the passenger window streaking and finnaly the tire issue. Nissan ended up giving me a rear spolier at no charge and told me that they will replace my two front tires AGAIN! AHhhhh, but now there's a catch - Nissan told me Tuesday morning that the Potenzes RE040 are longer available. I told him that I will not have Bridgestones in the rear and another Mfg. in the front. So there are going to put (4) brand new Michelin Pilots on the car for me. I'm supposed to hear back from Nissan today as to when they are going to tell the dealer to mount them and put the spoiler on. AFTER, all this is done I will post the final outcome and the name and direct phone # on the guy I talked to at Nissan Consumer Affairs. He was awesome to deal with and even said that If I knew anyone that needed help with any issues to have them call him directly. More to come............

 

Wow,

A free spoiler and a set of Pilot Sports.. I would be very happy with that! I wonder if Nissan will do that for everyone of if your dealer went to bat for you?

I wonder if the crappy RE040's on the Z are the problem to begin with.

Silverstone Performance
Phoenix Az

 

I am not dealing with the Nissan Dealer that I bought the car from. I bought the car in Cleveland, Ohio and live in Charlotte, NC. The local dealer had no part in doing anything. Everytime I called them they referred me to Nissan Consumer Affairs. The dealer will do just about anything that Corporate tells them to do.
I just got back from "Discount Tire" and they have ordred the tires and they will be here on Monday and will be mounted that afternoon. The spoiler will also be installed that afternoon. Good luck!!!!!!!!

 

I had "the feathering problem" complicated by changing tires over the winter and also by the dealer saying one tire was defective...and also the local Bridgestone dealer not wanting to get involved.....Long story short...My dealer contacted the Local Nissan Rep. and Nissan is replacing both front tires at no cost to me.....the Nissan local rep was aware of "the feathering problem" on the early built cars.

 

any fix for the tire feathering yet? I know the dealers are replacing the tires, but seems like the recently built cars (after Jan 2003) has no problem with tire feathering. I have already filled out a complain form for it, but not sure what do to from now on.. don't really want to wear out the new replacement tires like the old ones.

 

Picking up my car in an hour or so. SM told me that they had faxed the info over to NNA yesterday at their request. My car was for the most part ready yesterday but NNA wanted to review the specs before they put the new tires on and retested my alignment with new tires. He did tell me that NNA wanted to see the specs to see if an engineer or tech needed to inspect my car. Sounds to me that they are on it.

Definitley is a toe out problem that gets exacerbated by load per the SM and DSM and Hunter Techs. I am getting all print outs from the alignments. And will get them posted somehow. SM says they went to a more toe in (pigeon toed) stance from where it was. I guess the print outs will show us. And a few hundred miles of driving.

 

I believe the 040s are a major part of the problem, especially when we found out the cars were mis-aligned from the factory. Good move Nissan, no more 040s=fewer complaints about alignment and poor ride, I would surmise. Hope I'm right this time.

 

Just got my car back - they did a realignment and swapped the front tires - scratched the heck out of my wheels doing so .

I have the before and after printouts, but they don't scan very well, so here is what they found and "fixed".

Front Toe Range is 0.0" to 0.04"
Left Front was -0.09" before, 0.03" after
Right Front was 0.02" before, 0.03" after

Rear Toe Range is 0.01" to 0.07"
Left Rear was -0.02" before, 0.04" after
Right Rear was 0.03" before, 0.03" after

As you can see, my left side was way off, but my right side was dead on. I have only the slighest feathering on the right side tires, but the left were pretty bad. They want me to drive it a bit and see what this change does to them. The funny thing is my car droev dead straight even though the left side was off and the right side was set up correctly.

 

we shall see, I now have 19" toyos on the car, I got mild feathering on my bridgestones after 1200 miles, I will see how my toyos compare at 2400 miles to do a direct comparison and see what I find.

Sounds like maybe the problem is supposed to have been corrrected with the later cars, yet mine was Born on 12/02 and I have mild feathering, ALSO, why would nissan be trying to FIGURE out how to "FIX" this is they supposedly already did on the later models (my guess is that they aren't fixed??))

 

I have been following this horror story since I took delivery of my silver performance on 02/18/03. First noticed the humming from the front tires around 1200 miles and watched closely for the cupping. The cupping (feathering) became visably noticable about 2500 miles and the front tire noise continued to worsen. At 3575 miles I returned the Z to my dealer for the first oil change and complained about front tire noise. They advised me that Nissan knows this a problem. The dealer inspected my tires and contacted Nissan and was told to rotate the front tires followed by an alignment. I picked up the Z yesterday and can hear and feel an improvement.

 

I picked up my car at the dealer yesterday afternoon. I apologize if some of my info is not consistant from my earlier posts but this is the most current after talking to the SM for 40 minutes.

There were four techs and the Chief Engineer at my analysis.

1. The SM and Hunter thought it was the tires. Removed wheels and tires and remounted my tires on their machine. They thought the tires were ballooning and or had to much drag/resistance for the car.

Sorry, but it is not the tires. We all know how we hate them but this is not the problem. DO NOT LET YOUR DEALER TELL YOU TO GO TO BRIDGESTONE BECAUSE THE TIRES ARE DEFECTIVE.

2. Per the Hunter techs and my SM, our suspension is very similar to an Audi suspension. Checked to see if the suspension is moving or the bushings were defective. The suspension is ROCK solid. Hunter techs were impressed with the rigidity of the components. Geometry was good.

3. Put the tires and wheels back on the car and did a contact patch analysis on the computer. They "drove" the car on the computer and low and behold, at speed and with load, the tires tend to toe in. The optimum toe was computed to be >>> .14 in. total toe or splayed out. At the other end of the spectrum from where Kawata and Aggie were. FYI, my before were close to yours and that was after an alignment in February.

Mind you, the SM sent all this data to NNA for analysis before they realigned the car. It was signed off and completed. My new tires were mounted and I got the car yesterday.

My part of the deal is that I need to go in every few weeks and have my tires miked so the data can be sent to NNA for analysis. MY SM says the NNA really was pleased that they had a car to analyze since they are working from models or computers. They were close to sending an engineer out but decided after the Hunter review that there was no need.

I have a sweet CAD print out from Hunter of my before and after specs along with thrust and steer ahead specs.

CAN I FAX THESE TO SOMEONE SO THE CAN BE POSTED. I DO NOT HAVE A SCANNER.

Impressions:

1. You will see when the sheets are posted but my car is dead on center. The steer ahead is 0.00 degrees. Before, my car had a slight pull to the right. I like this, a lot

2. The car seems to be more balanced. Long sweeping curves are not as loose. Quick 90 degree angle turns are cleaner. I do not no how to state this correctly.

Brad, my offer is still on for a test now that you are a budding track master.

Please post other questions. I will try to answer them to the best of my knowledge.

 

This is very interesting data. Couple of questions:

1. How fast was the car driven to on the machine? Wondering if the toe gets worse the faster you go.

2. I was always told that the toe on cars tends to toe out as you go faster due to mechanical forces and such. But you are saying that the Z actually toed in as in went faster? WOW.

3. How do they account for the wind resistance (or lack there of) that would normally be pushing down on the car (in effect loading the suspension)? This will also change the camber and toe.

Thanks,
Ja

 

1. I do not know the speed but it was modeled. The toe does get worse at speed. Per the SM, they found the suspension so stiff/rigid, it would not budge with prying. It does doe move back like on the Audi.

2. I will confirm the toe question from my SM. I had a few beers for my b-day last night. FYI, they aligned my toe from before at .07 inches to .14 inches. No negative numbers so I assume this is toe out. Any idea?

3. Good question. I do not have the answer though it was modeled on computer and could have that variable for speed/wind resistance.

Jim

 

Typo. The suspension does not move back like the Audi tends to.

 

SM is out today but spoke with a tech. Checked on tire rack.com and Ingalls and confirmed that positive toe (my total toe is now .14 = .07 and .07) is toe in. (Most alignment equipment displays toe-out as a minus (-) and toe-in as a positive (+).)- Ingalls.

He informed me that they did go to a more toe in per the computer model. I had it backwards. JELLEDGE you are right, the car tends to tow out upon force of driving


One comment Hunter and my SM said that when prying and analyzing the suspension is that we would have to hit a very big pot hole to knock this out of alignment.

 

ezchief...excellent report. I feel actually kind of lucky that we have the same SM. Hopefully the learnings of this testing with Hunter will pay off for everyone that has this issue.

Do you know if Richard is planning on making the changes to other Z's? If so, I wouldn't mind having this adjustment made on mine as well. I will probably try and give him a buzz on Monday.

Thanks again for the update. I feel a little better that at least we know there is activity going on, just a shame it had to come from an outside source such as Hunter.

 

A good start, my car, and a couple others, must have had a larger toe-in? to wear prematurely on the outside of the tire, do I have this right? This is wonderful news for us, NNA Engineering is actually working with Hunter and an owner to provide a real world test.

So it wasn't the tires, but they are so demonized by now nobody will want to buy them again unless they are newer owners who don't have our problems. Maybe I can sell mine now. My question is, how long do we have to wait for Nissan to issue new alignment settings? And if our new tires are damaged beyond repair, will Nissan pay for their replacement? Only a guess, but Nissan should replace ours if we do, I hope.

 

I got so disgusted that I traded my Touring for a HONDA s2000 LAST WEEK. i TOO THOUGHT ABOUT ALL OF THIS COMING UP IN THE OUTSIDE WORLD AND PEOPLE GETTING AFRAID ABOUT OWNING ONE. I took a loss but avoided any more frustration! Good luck all-