Tire FEATHERING: FYI
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Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Dayton, OH
Originally posted by only1
So how do I get my dealer to freakin get me new tires?
So how do I get my dealer to freakin get me new tires?
ps: my case is unique in the sense that i got the car used only 2 months prior to this and I was easily able to make the case for dealership neglect and selling of a faulty product.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 48
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From: san jose, ca
I reported the problem to the dealer at 14K. The dealer refused to perform the TSB or replace the tires unless I paid because I was over 12K. I contacted NNA and they also refused. A month later I contacted NNA again and was persistent and tried to convince them that it shouldn't matter that I was over 12K as I didn't know I had the problem until I read this thread. Shouldn't Nissan alert us to this if we are ignorant to the problem. (I know how can you be ignorant to this when the car sounds like a 4x4)NNA then called the dealer and said to swap tires for me. When the dealer swapped the tires then NNA said there was a misunderstanding and NNA was not going to pay for it, so the dealer is eating the cost. unbelievable
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 48
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From: california
Originally posted by Boomer
No one is faulting you, Waldf, but my dealer can't find the TSB on their Nissan Assist website where they post Recalls and TSBs for all models. BTW, the TSB you are referencing IS the "set to max" 0.2 the traveling engineers have been spouting. I don't know why your dealer thinks its different, unless his techs can't read.
No one is faulting you, Waldf, but my dealer can't find the TSB on their Nissan Assist website where they post Recalls and TSBs for all models. BTW, the TSB you are referencing IS the "set to max" 0.2 the traveling engineers have been spouting. I don't know why your dealer thinks its different, unless his techs can't read.
OK, I had a chance to inspect my front tires today. I guess if it's in normal condition, meaning you don't have the feathering the inside part of the tires should be SMOOTH right? Well, what I saw was a rough looking surface. The rubber looks like it's been chopped up. This is the first time that I've actually seen them like this. 
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 162
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From: Clearwater, Florida
x-posted on zcar.com for my own amusement pleasure I present to you...
The History of Tire Feathering on the 350Z, An Atagonist's View
Well first came the realization by Nissan that they had a major problem in that the front tires on most, if not all Z's were cupping in a heel and toe pattern around the inside tread blocks at very low mileage and NTB03-006 was born. Nissan having concluded, with a little or no evidence, that this must be an alignment problem, directed that, not if your tires were cupped, but if your tires were noisy, that the alignment should checked. To that was added, probably by some rich pig capitalist executive type who didn't want any of his profit sharing wasted on tire purchases, that the tires should be swapped side to side which was a feeble remediation attempt at best.
Several months later after the same vehicles started coming back for more tire problems Nissan released NTB006a. Apparently, in spite of the fact that Nissan Japan had not been able to duplicate the problem, they had concluded that this issue could be resolved by setting the front toe to the maximum specified toe in of 2mm. Nissan did not, however, change the actual specifications. Only suggested that Dealers should set the toe at 2mm even though the specifications, even those in the TSB itself, still give 1mm as the nominal setting. The tire swapping garbage also remained unchanged in spite of the fact that Nissan had, by this time, replaced thousands of tires under warranty.
Several more months past and the feathered tires just kept on coming. Nissan, now under fire in the press and by disgruntled owners, did their best work on the project to date. They announced the infamous Japanese Engineer Tour and leaked to the press their new theory that Americans are simply incapable of operating alignment equipment. Soon after, NTB03-006b was born. Like its’ predecessor, NTB03-006a, it retained the 2mm toe in setting and the bogus tire swap, but it also included instructions on how to operate alignment equipment.
And there we stand folks. Nissan has managed to weather two years of this tire feathering storm without once admitting that there is any problem with the car or the tires other than a minor adjustment problem. There are several holes in their story however. They have publicly stated as recently as several months ago that "some" of the cars were shipped with improper alignment settings and the problem has been resolved. Unfortunately for Nissan, they kept pushing the production date forward on the affected vehicles. If their statement was true then it would have been easy enough to correct at the factory and there should have been no additional cases. But we all know there was and the affected dates in the TSB's kept right on rolling. Nissan's theory was also contradicted by the alignment data gathered during the TSB applications. Many of the affected cars were not out of spec in the first place. And then came the 2mm guidance document which contradicted everything that Nissan had previously stated. They were, in essence, changing the nominal toe setting. Unfortunately the cars were still eating tires so Nissan decided to blame it on the American's lack of appreciation for a finely tuned sports car and their inability to operate their own alignment equipment. Apparently the equipment works on less highly tuned vehicles like Porsches, BMW's and Mercedes but cannot meet the exacting demands of the 350Z without specialized instruction.
The History of Tire Feathering on the 350Z, An Atagonist's View
Well first came the realization by Nissan that they had a major problem in that the front tires on most, if not all Z's were cupping in a heel and toe pattern around the inside tread blocks at very low mileage and NTB03-006 was born. Nissan having concluded, with a little or no evidence, that this must be an alignment problem, directed that, not if your tires were cupped, but if your tires were noisy, that the alignment should checked. To that was added, probably by some rich pig capitalist executive type who didn't want any of his profit sharing wasted on tire purchases, that the tires should be swapped side to side which was a feeble remediation attempt at best.
Several months later after the same vehicles started coming back for more tire problems Nissan released NTB006a. Apparently, in spite of the fact that Nissan Japan had not been able to duplicate the problem, they had concluded that this issue could be resolved by setting the front toe to the maximum specified toe in of 2mm. Nissan did not, however, change the actual specifications. Only suggested that Dealers should set the toe at 2mm even though the specifications, even those in the TSB itself, still give 1mm as the nominal setting. The tire swapping garbage also remained unchanged in spite of the fact that Nissan had, by this time, replaced thousands of tires under warranty.
Several more months past and the feathered tires just kept on coming. Nissan, now under fire in the press and by disgruntled owners, did their best work on the project to date. They announced the infamous Japanese Engineer Tour and leaked to the press their new theory that Americans are simply incapable of operating alignment equipment. Soon after, NTB03-006b was born. Like its’ predecessor, NTB03-006a, it retained the 2mm toe in setting and the bogus tire swap, but it also included instructions on how to operate alignment equipment.
And there we stand folks. Nissan has managed to weather two years of this tire feathering storm without once admitting that there is any problem with the car or the tires other than a minor adjustment problem. There are several holes in their story however. They have publicly stated as recently as several months ago that "some" of the cars were shipped with improper alignment settings and the problem has been resolved. Unfortunately for Nissan, they kept pushing the production date forward on the affected vehicles. If their statement was true then it would have been easy enough to correct at the factory and there should have been no additional cases. But we all know there was and the affected dates in the TSB's kept right on rolling. Nissan's theory was also contradicted by the alignment data gathered during the TSB applications. Many of the affected cars were not out of spec in the first place. And then came the 2mm guidance document which contradicted everything that Nissan had previously stated. They were, in essence, changing the nominal toe setting. Unfortunately the cars were still eating tires so Nissan decided to blame it on the American's lack of appreciation for a finely tuned sports car and their inability to operate their own alignment equipment. Apparently the equipment works on less highly tuned vehicles like Porsches, BMW's and Mercedes but cannot meet the exacting demands of the 350Z without specialized instruction.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
From: Richmond VA
Nice Summery,Could not have said it better. That is why I filed a Lemon Law case. We are just waiting for our day in Court.
I have been with this thread from the first few pages.
Hopefully your summery will help some of the new people reading this thread.
I have been with this thread from the first few pages.
Hopefully your summery will help some of the new people reading this thread.
Banned
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: East Peoria, Illinois
Originally posted by overZealous
x-posted on zcar.com for my own amusement pleasure I present to you...
The History of Tire Feathering on the 350Z, An Atagonist's View
Well first came the realization by Nissan that they had a major problem in that the front tires on most, if not all Z's were cupping in a heel and toe pattern around the inside tread blocks at very low mileage and NTB03-006 was born. Nissan having concluded, with a little or no evidence, that this must be an alignment problem, directed that, not if your tires were cupped, but if your tires were noisy, that the alignment should checked. To that was added, probably by some rich pig capitalist executive type who didn't want any of his profit sharing wasted on tire purchases, that the tires should be swapped side to side which was a feeble remediation attempt at best.
Several months later after the same vehicles started coming back for more tire problems Nissan released NTB006a. Apparently, in spite of the fact that Nissan Japan had not been able to duplicate the problem, they had concluded that this issue could be resolved by setting the front toe to the maximum specified toe in of 2mm. Nissan did not, however, change the actual specifications. Only suggested that Dealers should set the toe at 2mm even though the specifications, even those in the TSB itself, still give 1mm as the nominal setting. The tire swapping garbage also remained unchanged in spite of the fact that Nissan had, by this time, replaced thousands of tires under warranty.
Several more months past and the feathered tires just kept on coming. Nissan, now under fire in the press and by disgruntled owners, did their best work on the project to date. They announced the infamous Japanese Engineer Tour and leaked to the press their new theory that Americans are simply incapable of operating alignment equipment. Soon after, NTB03-006b was born. Like its’ predecessor, NTB03-006a, it retained the 2mm toe in setting and the bogus tire swap, but it also included instructions on how to operate alignment equipment.
And there we stand folks. Nissan has managed to weather two years of this tire feathering storm without once admitting that there is any problem with the car or the tires other than a minor adjustment problem. There are several holes in their story however. They have publicly stated as recently as several months ago that "some" of the cars were shipped with improper alignment settings and the problem has been resolved. Unfortunately for Nissan, they kept pushing the production date forward on the affected vehicles. If their statement was true then it would have been easy enough to correct at the factory and there should have been no additional cases. But we all know there was and the affected dates in the TSB's kept right on rolling. Nissan's theory was also contradicted by the alignment data gathered during the TSB applications. Many of the affected cars were not out of spec in the first place. And then came the 2mm guidance document which contradicted everything that Nissan had previously stated. They were, in essence, changing the nominal toe setting. Unfortunately the cars were still eating tires so Nissan decided to blame it on the American's lack of appreciation for a finely tuned sports car and their inability to operate their own alignment equipment. Apparently the equipment works on less highly tuned vehicles like Porsches, BMW's and Mercedes but cannot meet the exacting demands of the 350Z without specialized instruction.
x-posted on zcar.com for my own amusement pleasure I present to you...
The History of Tire Feathering on the 350Z, An Atagonist's View
Well first came the realization by Nissan that they had a major problem in that the front tires on most, if not all Z's were cupping in a heel and toe pattern around the inside tread blocks at very low mileage and NTB03-006 was born. Nissan having concluded, with a little or no evidence, that this must be an alignment problem, directed that, not if your tires were cupped, but if your tires were noisy, that the alignment should checked. To that was added, probably by some rich pig capitalist executive type who didn't want any of his profit sharing wasted on tire purchases, that the tires should be swapped side to side which was a feeble remediation attempt at best.
Several months later after the same vehicles started coming back for more tire problems Nissan released NTB006a. Apparently, in spite of the fact that Nissan Japan had not been able to duplicate the problem, they had concluded that this issue could be resolved by setting the front toe to the maximum specified toe in of 2mm. Nissan did not, however, change the actual specifications. Only suggested that Dealers should set the toe at 2mm even though the specifications, even those in the TSB itself, still give 1mm as the nominal setting. The tire swapping garbage also remained unchanged in spite of the fact that Nissan had, by this time, replaced thousands of tires under warranty.
Several more months past and the feathered tires just kept on coming. Nissan, now under fire in the press and by disgruntled owners, did their best work on the project to date. They announced the infamous Japanese Engineer Tour and leaked to the press their new theory that Americans are simply incapable of operating alignment equipment. Soon after, NTB03-006b was born. Like its’ predecessor, NTB03-006a, it retained the 2mm toe in setting and the bogus tire swap, but it also included instructions on how to operate alignment equipment.
And there we stand folks. Nissan has managed to weather two years of this tire feathering storm without once admitting that there is any problem with the car or the tires other than a minor adjustment problem. There are several holes in their story however. They have publicly stated as recently as several months ago that "some" of the cars were shipped with improper alignment settings and the problem has been resolved. Unfortunately for Nissan, they kept pushing the production date forward on the affected vehicles. If their statement was true then it would have been easy enough to correct at the factory and there should have been no additional cases. But we all know there was and the affected dates in the TSB's kept right on rolling. Nissan's theory was also contradicted by the alignment data gathered during the TSB applications. Many of the affected cars were not out of spec in the first place. And then came the 2mm guidance document which contradicted everything that Nissan had previously stated. They were, in essence, changing the nominal toe setting. Unfortunately the cars were still eating tires so Nissan decided to blame it on the American's lack of appreciation for a finely tuned sports car and their inability to operate their own alignment equipment. Apparently the equipment works on less highly tuned vehicles like Porsches, BMW's and Mercedes but cannot meet the exacting demands of the 350Z without specialized instruction.
YEah, I have gone through the steps to have a set of tires replaced and the noise, feathering, cuping etc, is back. All of the people who are buying this car and beginning to have these problem surface, I feel for you. I would not want anyone to go through what I went through. by the way(DON'T BUY THE EXTENDED WARRANTY!!! IT IS WORTHLESS!!!) Just thought I would add that in.
ya know,..... at first, all i wanted was to try to keep the car as factor as possible. But now i realize, it is just a car. So this summer, I will be turning my Z into "my Z" !!!
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
From: Jacksonville, Florida
BBB
I faxed the BBB a copy of my alignment spec's and showed her that even after the alignment was conducted - the car was still NOT w/in the spec range - accross the board.
Since I have conducted the "final" repair - we'll go straight to settlement. I'm thinking of making a nice offer to Nissan to make this right one "last" time in order to avoid a buy back (nice of me).
Here's my proposal - tell me what you think:
1)Install the S-Tune suspension or the "upgraded" 2004.5 suspension.
2) Refund me two months payment - like they had offered back in Nov '03 to make me go away.
That's it. I believe that's fair - it's far less cheaper to do the above vs. a total buy back.
Any opinions?
Thanks
Since I have conducted the "final" repair - we'll go straight to settlement. I'm thinking of making a nice offer to Nissan to make this right one "last" time in order to avoid a buy back (nice of me).
Here's my proposal - tell me what you think:
1)Install the S-Tune suspension or the "upgraded" 2004.5 suspension.
2) Refund me two months payment - like they had offered back in Nov '03 to make me go away.
That's it. I believe that's fair - it's far less cheaper to do the above vs. a total buy back.
Any opinions?
Thanks
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 162
Likes: 1
From: Clearwater, Florida
New Web Site
350Z Antagonist is pleased to announce the aquisition of 350zbuyersguide.com. The domain name was registered this morning and the DNS zone should be set up by this afternoon. I should have something up there in a day or two. This site will be dedicated to putting pressure on Nissan to properly address 350Z issues. Look for it on your favorite search engine soon. I may even make it a featured site. I'm no web designer so if anyone would like to contribute to the design or content it would be appreciated.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: Apex, NC
Have we seen concrete evidence that the S-tune suspension upgrade will permenently correct the problem? I would hate for you to offer this to Nissan for you to "go away" only to have it come back.
Forgive me if this is stated somewhere in the last 100 pages.
Forgive me if this is stated somewhere in the last 100 pages.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
From: Jacksonville, Florida
Not sure..
Originally posted by fuzzwart
Have we seen concrete evidence that the S-tune suspension upgrade will permenently correct the problem? I would hate for you to offer this to Nissan for you to "go away" only to have it come back.
Forgive me if this is stated somewhere in the last 100 pages.
Have we seen concrete evidence that the S-tune suspension upgrade will permenently correct the problem? I would hate for you to offer this to Nissan for you to "go away" only to have it come back.
Forgive me if this is stated somewhere in the last 100 pages.
New Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
Is filing the LL really worth the hassle? You have to go through all of that sh*t and then what car are you going to buy. You can't get a car similar to the 350z for less than 75,000 (911). You can get faster, but it would be some cheap WRX, Lancer, or F-body. I've thought about filing LL, but then I don't know what car I would buy. I love many aspects of the Z and wouldn't be able to get them in the same price range. I figure a shock upgrade (koni's) or suspension upgrage (S-tune) is less of a hassle than the LL. I don't have spare cash laying around like many Z owners, if I have to I would consider these. I'll have to see how the Koni's do with feathering. I realize we shouldn't have to pay for Nissan's bad suspension.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 773
Likes: 0
From: Dayton, OH
Originally posted by mf01
Is filing the LL really worth the hassle? You have to go through all of that sh*t and then what car are you going to buy. You can't get a car similar to the 350z for less than 75,000 (911). You can get faster, but it would be some cheap WRX, Lancer, or F-body. I've thought about filing LL, but then I don't know what car I would buy. I love many aspects of the Z and wouldn't be able to get them in the same price range. I figure a shock upgrade (koni's) or suspension upgrage (S-tune) is less of a hassle than the LL. I don't have spare cash laying around like many Z owners, if I have to I would consider these. I'll have to see how the Koni's do with feathering. I realize we shouldn't have to pay for Nissan's bad suspension.
Is filing the LL really worth the hassle? You have to go through all of that sh*t and then what car are you going to buy. You can't get a car similar to the 350z for less than 75,000 (911). You can get faster, but it would be some cheap WRX, Lancer, or F-body. I've thought about filing LL, but then I don't know what car I would buy. I love many aspects of the Z and wouldn't be able to get them in the same price range. I figure a shock upgrade (koni's) or suspension upgrage (S-tune) is less of a hassle than the LL. I don't have spare cash laying around like many Z owners, if I have to I would consider these. I'll have to see how the Koni's do with feathering. I realize we shouldn't have to pay for Nissan's bad suspension.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: Albuquerque,NM
Originally posted by grifferjr
i am with you on this. no i am not "NISSAN's DREAM CUSTOMER" like some others on this thread have been referred by. I do feel strongly that Nissan has majorly F**KED up on this and they should be held responsible. I will do everything that I can to help this matter along. But when you get to the bottom line of things, this car is still pretty sweet for its pricerange. Once the suspension change proves to be the fix i will consider that, as i too do not have extra cash lying around. on the flipside i can see others points if they have had the other problems like the tranny and others. I am fortunate enough to just have some minimal window grease which i am dealing with (not getting the tsb done). also i am willing to be vigilant on the tires by getting them flipped every so often (maybe every other oil change) I have a guy here that does it for 20 bucks.
i am with you on this. no i am not "NISSAN's DREAM CUSTOMER" like some others on this thread have been referred by. I do feel strongly that Nissan has majorly F**KED up on this and they should be held responsible. I will do everything that I can to help this matter along. But when you get to the bottom line of things, this car is still pretty sweet for its pricerange. Once the suspension change proves to be the fix i will consider that, as i too do not have extra cash lying around. on the flipside i can see others points if they have had the other problems like the tranny and others. I am fortunate enough to just have some minimal window grease which i am dealing with (not getting the tsb done). also i am willing to be vigilant on the tires by getting them flipped every so often (maybe every other oil change) I have a guy here that does it for 20 bucks.
GriferJR, sir, I had the tsb done for the window grease and it has not come back, had it done for both windows, so if your dealer is even half way competent I would recomend getting it done. You could get it done when you brought the car in for service. If you do get it done though make sure your dealer has the parts in stock. Our dealer had us bring it in and then didnt have the parys in stock but rewarded us with a free oil change for our trouble. Other than that our dealer, Reliable Nissan Here in Albuquerque has been very good to us.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: Albuquerque,NM
Re: BBB
Originally posted by kbsig106
I faxed the BBB a copy of my alignment spec's and showed her that even after the alignment was conducted - the car was still NOT w/in the spec range - accross the board.
Since I have conducted the "final" repair - we'll go straight to settlement. I'm thinking of making a nice offer to Nissan to make this right one "last" time in order to avoid a buy back (nice of me).
Here's my proposal - tell me what you think:
1)Install the S-Tune suspension or the "upgraded" 2004.5 suspension.
2) Refund me two months payment - like they had offered back in Nov '03 to make me go away.
That's it. I believe that's fair - it's far less cheaper to do the above vs. a total buy back.
Any opinions?
Thanks
I faxed the BBB a copy of my alignment spec's and showed her that even after the alignment was conducted - the car was still NOT w/in the spec range - accross the board.
Since I have conducted the "final" repair - we'll go straight to settlement. I'm thinking of making a nice offer to Nissan to make this right one "last" time in order to avoid a buy back (nice of me).
Here's my proposal - tell me what you think:
1)Install the S-Tune suspension or the "upgraded" 2004.5 suspension.
2) Refund me two months payment - like they had offered back in Nov '03 to make me go away.
That's it. I believe that's fair - it's far less cheaper to do the above vs. a total buy back.
Any opinions?
Thanks
I am with you. Just from hearsay the "s" tune suspension makes the tire feathering go away. Ask for the Nismo sway bars front and rear also. Thats my plan as well once i wait them out and see if they will fix it tehmselves. They have given me one set of front tires at 9500 miles and a free alignment. when mt rears wear out im going to get Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires and see how they do. I think the two months payment and the S tune suspension PLus the Nismo sway bars is a good idea sir.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
From: Jacksonville, Florida
Picked my Car Out...
Originally posted by mf01
Is filing the LL really worth the hassle? You have to go through all of that sh*t and then what car are you going to buy. You can't get a car similar to the 350z for less than 75,000 (911). You can get faster, but it would be some cheap WRX, Lancer, or F-body. I've thought about filing LL, but then I don't know what car I would buy. I love many aspects of the Z and wouldn't be able to get them in the same price range. I figure a shock upgrade (koni's) or suspension upgrage (S-tune) is less of a hassle than the LL. I don't have spare cash laying around like many Z owners, if I have to I would consider these. I'll have to see how the Koni's do with feathering. I realize we shouldn't have to pay for Nissan's bad suspension.
Is filing the LL really worth the hassle? You have to go through all of that sh*t and then what car are you going to buy. You can't get a car similar to the 350z for less than 75,000 (911). You can get faster, but it would be some cheap WRX, Lancer, or F-body. I've thought about filing LL, but then I don't know what car I would buy. I love many aspects of the Z and wouldn't be able to get them in the same price range. I figure a shock upgrade (koni's) or suspension upgrage (S-tune) is less of a hassle than the LL. I don't have spare cash laying around like many Z owners, if I have to I would consider these. I'll have to see how the Koni's do with feathering. I realize we shouldn't have to pay for Nissan's bad suspension.
Close enough for me.
overZealous -
I am a SEO (Search Engine Optimizer) so once you get your site up, I can give you some pointers for getting it listed high. I can also add it to many directories/sites I know.
I am a SEO (Search Engine Optimizer) so once you get your site up, I can give you some pointers for getting it listed high. I can also add it to many directories/sites I know.