Compare the second pic above, see the difference.

It's a Mass. Quarter, check the distance from the tread to the "feet" of the Patriot on the coin - normal wear touches, feathered wear shows 1-2mm more wear.

I haven't seen too many pics showing how different the normal wear looks from the feathered - look at the wavy lines on the worn side, you can easily see the cupping - and mine aren't anywhere near as badly worn as others.

 

So, my tires are toast still, but the drifting deal is gone and steering is very on center and tight again. Score one for Nissan getting this one right; the fix for the "drift TSB" seems very solid.

Hope I have equal luck with the tire wear issue!

And just to remind me why I bought this car to begin with, a nice pic. The other two vehicles are 1) a 1995 Alty running about 175 hp with a lot of handling and engine mods, and 2) a new 2003 Quad Cab Hemi Ram with 345hp/375 ft-lbs of torque.

Just shows power corrupts... for more pics check out some home pages:
http://homepage.mac.com/stracy01/PhotoAlbum12.html
and
http://homepage.mac.com/stracy01/PhotoAlbum12.html

 

Pick up my car today at the dealer after they replace both of my front tires, and alignment. also the window streak.
Man!!! I'm fall in love with the car all over again!!!
No more noises from the tires!! what a relieve!! Now, I just hope the feathering won't come back again. Currently I have 10300 miles. ( that's a lot of driving within 5 month ). I get manage to get a copy of the alignment, and everything was within specs, except the toe. It was way off, the before showing -0.23 and after showing +0.08. I wondering if that's what causing the feathering? Well, I'm not going worry about that right now, I'm going to enjoy the New Z feeling again!!!

 

From Freshalloy.com:

After a cold soda, I climbed into a stock 350Z Nissan provided for comparison with the NISMO Z’s. Even though it lacked the “track package” options, I was very impressed with the performance on the track. Stock wheels and tires (Continental SportContact) provided plenty of grip, and the brakes never protested my abuse. It was very enjoyable to drive at 9/10ths.


Is this a typo or has Nissan swapped tires on the 350Z??

 

Dropped vehicle off this morning for it's 3rd set of front tires (counting the ones that came on it) and 2nd alignment (all measurements on the first one were withing specs) @9800 miles. Opened another case with NNA before I made the appointment to inquire as to how they would fix the car. Was told that they had no fix at this time. Unlike some others who have posted here though I have found no reluctance on Nissan's part or the Dealer keep replacing the front tires. I also can't believe that Nissan has a fix and is bottling it up to avoid costly repairs. Much more costly to supply tires infinatum. The Dealer didn't even look at the car before agreeing to order new front tires. Took a week to get the RE040 by the way. Impressed with this Dealer so far (Autoway Nissan of Clearwater). Have been treated with honesty and respect. They also have their own equipment to change the tires on site which is good. Also agreed without hesitation to recalibrate the front tire pressure monitors that the last Dealer screwed up. Best Nissan Dealer in town and I've tried them all.

I'd also like to comment on an earlier post wherein the idea that bad alignment had caused suspension damage which in turn caused the tire wear was put forth. Further once the alignment was corrected, it was stated, the suspension was already damaged so the 2nd set of tires also cupped. Forgive me for saying so but this explanation is ********. It totally overlooks the obvious answer; the tire cupping issue is not alignment related. My alignment was checked and was not out of spec. Still ate a second set of tires. And in 3,500 more miles, if no other changes are made, it will eat a thrid set. And this nonsense about tweaking the toe settings to stop the cupping is just that. My tires will cup at .03 degrees of toe but will not at .07 or whatever? This is utter foolishness. The suspension obviously has a design problem and Nissan obviously has to find it, if they haven't already, and fix it. But that's just my opinion.

MWeber
SS Touring 6spd. #6205

 

Yup. Not going to fix itself, your opinion is consistent with all the info and my own experience to date.

I expect this will start showing up in the long term test cars for mags soon. That should prove interesting.

Steve

 

I have a 2004 Base with 1,700 miles. I got the alignment checked today. These are the specs:

Initial
FRONT
Camber: -0.8 left Spec: -1.3 to .2
-0.9 right

Toe: .10 left Spec: .00 - .10 Final: .05
-.05 right Final: .05
.05 total Spec .00 - .15 Final .10


REAR
Camber: -1.4 left Spec: -2.1 to -1.1
-1.5 right

Toe: .00 left Spec: .00 - .05 Final: .05
.00 right Final: .05
.00 total Spec: .00 - .15 Final: .10

Does all of this look kosher? Really the only thing that I can tell that looks like it was off badly was the right front toe. I also asked about my seat clunk problem and the tech said he couldn't reproduce the noise. What should I tell him to get that damn clunk fixed? I pointed out that there is a TSB for it and that didn't help.

 

Shift Z:
Enjoy but watch the wear very closely

 

Propaganda:
I have a 2003 and at 1700 I had feathering on the outside as well. They aligned the car and I now have 7500miles and the alignment seems to be holding. It seems the cars are still coming in mis aligned; that is unbelievable.
Watch for feathering on the inside of the front tires, that is where some of the front end problems are causing havoc.

 

So your drifting to the right was fixed with this TSB? I had the same thing done but it didn't completely fix the problem. After they did the TSB the drifting to the right is still evident. The only difference is it does a complete lane change within 12 seconds. They swaped the front tires because my tech thought the the tires are "Pulling" (WTF??) After the swap, he assumed that if it's the tires it should now pull to the left, WRONG, it's still to the right. So at this point he want's to replace my two front tires and this should fix the problem. The screwed up thing is, the tire company that swapped the tires scratched both of my rims. I'm thinking of asking for two new rims. Is this being too unreasonable of me?

 

No it is not, Nissan scratched my rear bumper (i have white z) so I had a half inch black mark on my bumper that was never there, since i wash my car daily I know whats there and wasn't. Anyhow they are having their "bumper" guy fix it tomorrow, it better be unnoticable or I shall request a swap of my bumper or something.

Your rims were not scratched before, now they are, its not your fault, you don't deserve scratched rims because of nissans faults I say see what happens, mine are all scratched up but I bought it that way, didn't notice til i got home was brand new too 20 miles on it

 

Sorry about your bumber. I hope they will be able to fix it to your satisfaction.
That was my thinking too, that my rims wasn't scratched when I brought it in and now they are. They tech started making excuses like, "did you see how hard it was to remove them? Once in while you will get scratches on them" I just think that this is a bad business practice. We will definately see what happens. So what remedy if any are they giving you to fix the drifting?

 

SteveZ, what it the control rod TSB you're talking about? My Z has had 2 alignments, new tires and still pulls to the right. I need to know what that control rod repair is so I can tell my service dept.

Thanks in advanced.

 

Your comment on my earlier posted opinion about alignment, tires and wear being the culprit on the cupping being B.S. begs a question: If the cupping problem is a design flaw then why doesn't it happen to EVERYONE? In case you might wish to know, we have a large number of owners on this site and other Z sites who don't have the problem! Why not? Does the problem only happen to good/bad people? I don't have the problem, what about that?

I would advise you to think on that fact before you comment ******** on mine. I would welcome your comments on the anamoly I just pointed out. Any other pearls of wisdom, O Wise One?

Boomer--why don't you scan a copy of your degree as a Car Suspension Engineer, so we may all be enlightened.

 

its been awhile since i posted, but suffice it to say, Im getting new front tires for free. Not rear tires mind you, just fronts.

After having the tirefeathering/cupping TSB service, I noticed less tire roar.... but then again, my tires are quite worn as it is.

Anyway, good luck to all of you...
and Im savin some for me too.

~AJ

 

Before you get yourself all bent out of shape please take note of the disclaimer at the end of my post good sir Boomer. I was speaking of my own experience, opinions and beliefs and suspension engineering degree or not I don't believe that RE040's will damage suspension components. Suspension components may damage RE040's though. Besides why do I need a suspension engineering degree. In your own words from 9/4 "This isn't rocket science, its content analysis". I just happen to have a masters in content analysis from the University of Blue Point. You know the one you find on the back of a pack a matches.

Further I don't know that everyone doesn't have the problem. I certainly don't believe everything I read on these forums. That could not possibly form the basis of a proper statistical analysis. Some people may not know how to recognize the problem. Some people on these forums love the car and it's image so much that they would never admit publicly that it has a problem. They don't even want to talk about it on zcar.com. They'll call you a whinner if you do. I'd have to see the cars. Indeed even you had the problem until replacing the 040's with a tire with a wear factor on the order of 400% greater than the Bridgestones. I could replace my tires with steel ones and I probably wouldn't have the cupping issue anymore either. It would handle like **** but at least it wouldn't cup. If the 350Z tears up the RE040's in 3,500 miles then it has a problem.

My belief that this is not an alignment issue stems mostly from the fact that my alignment has been done twice. And on both occaisions it was found to be within specs. I'll send you the data if you wish. It also stems from my understanding of "cupping" which, if caused by improper toe alignment would manifest itself in cupping accross the tire, not around the circumference. The fact that the cupping occurs around the circumference suggests that it is a shock spring or some other suspension weakness problem. I believe we agree on that. But to then go from that position to one that misalignment caused the suspension to wear out which caused the tire cupping or the misalignment caused the tire cupping which caused the suspension to wear out, in 1600 miles in your case, is indeed highly ********.

During my last conversation with NNA the rep stated "they don't all come back again". The inference being that they all come back at least once. During my last conversation with the SM at the local Nissan dealer, while standing next to a mountain of cupped, feathered, whatever, 040's, he stated "they don't all come back again". And I stated "I'm back, maybe they haven't racked up enough miles". And he stated "maybe so".

And so there we are. In my case the third set of tires in 9800 miles and no algnment problems. That is direct evidence. Where does that leave your theory? In my case, the direct evidence suggests that this is not an alignment issue. Unlike you though I don't want to go to school for a suspension engineering degree. I just want Nissan to fix it. If it was simply a question of bad alignment from the factory then why are we all still here talking about it? Your belief is apparently that the suspensions on all of our brand new Z's are worn out due to bad tires and misalignment. Where is there ANY direct evidence here or anywhere else to support that? Once again, that's just my opinion just like everything else in this thread.

 

I have to agree that the comments about the suspension being damaged seem a bit far fetched. I'm not an engineer, but I'd SPECULATE the suspension components would not get damaged at this low mileage. Most people with the saw-toothing (lets call it what it is) are seeing it around the 3500 to 4500 mile mark. However, I think Boomer may be leaning in the right direction.

Let's point out what we know
1. The tires are soft. UTQG of 140 pretty much sucks. I've had erasers last longer.
2. We can't adjust camber or caster.
3. Alignement specs are very small.
4. Those who experience the problem see it return after the TSB.

What we've all speculated about
1. Suspension damage in shipping
2. Lousy tire design
3. Suspension design flaw(s). Mismatch spring/shock etc.
4. Suspension damage due to improper alignment.
5. Driving conditions and/or driving types.

Here's what I think:
We're all speculating about a problem that has numerous variables. Think about what we're battling. A rotating mass traveling across multiple axis', over different surfaces, and in varying conditions (Toe, camber, caster, steering input, suspension action/loading). The only way ANYONE will find a solution to a problem like this is to rule out the different variables.

I think we know that the alignment does not cure the problem, otherwise the TSB would have been the cure.

Most owners who've switched to different tires have seen the problem return. No one is complaining about the rear tires. This rules out the tires. I think the RE040's cloud everyone's vision b/c they show the saw-toothing so quickly.

So we're down to Suspension and/or driving conditions. Since it seems some people don't have the problem we might be able to rule out basic Suspension Design. It obviously works for some cars, but we need to know what type of driving these peopler are doing. Are they driving their cars hard such as city driving; lots of turns, acceleration, and stops. I think this is an important factor to consider. I have saw-toothing and do a lot of highway driving (70%), high speed, mostly straight, right-hand off ramps.

Is it possible that our suspension was damaged in shipping? Yes. Is it likely? Probably not.

Is it possible that we have a quality control or assembly issue? It think this is more likely then damaged suspension, and I'm sure that some people will argue that suspension out of spec is damaged and I see your point.

I remember reading that some people changed out their shocks or springs for Eibach/Koni/etc and this helped. Did they have saw-toothing before the switch, and if so did it stop after?

Of the people that have saw-toothing how many think they have a bouncy/porpising ride? I think I do, but I only feel it on concrete roads, not asphalt. I also have the clunk which happens during a full right lock. Is it possible that its not a shock/spring problem, but a bushing problem. Another quality control issue.

Again, I think we have a suspension/driving type/road condition problem. Maybe if I lived in California or Florida and beat the crap out of my Z on perfect roads the tires would be OK. Then again, maybe they'd still be saw-tooted b/c I have a suspension problem.

I sure as hell hope someone at Nissan figures it out soon.

 

I had an alignment that was -.22 front toe, the back was nearly as bad, and I was lucky because I had an alignment the day after I switched tires. I was lucky I deliberately only put on 1600 miles or I believe I would be replacing the 2nd set of 040s now at 5700 miles. I replaced the 040s because the ride was totally atrocious and tire racks survey indicated the 040s were some of the worst tires being produced for sale.

Have you contacted mindfullin? He has an interesting series of pics showing a lower control arm w/a ball joint made of hard rubber, everything else seems to be metal. He asked the question, "could this be the problem"? My little theory was positing damage to the rubber from a crappy mismatch of springs and struts and an equally crappy tire could be acting in concert to wear that rubber down. In my thinking that would be suspension damage, that 040s just kept on abetting. You might consider someone else's opinions other than your own if you had followed this phenomenon as I and others have. As for silence on many people's part about the cupping, try thinking about your car's resale value in the toilet, yours included. At least I'm trying to be pro-active which is more than I can say about you.

 

I hate quoting my own post, but I found two posts that may relate to the section above.

Lost this poster
I now have almost 11K miles on my Z and the feathering is deep heal-toe on inner edges. I think I can feel slight feathering across the entire tread with my fingers now. I didn't notice any problems with feathering at all until about 8000 miles, and I was watching for it. Then it came on with a vengence. I took a 800 mile road trip, and by the time I got back home, wow... The road noise was deafening. In the time of that single trip at 75mph, the noise went from below 25mph, all the way up to any speed. I don't know for sure when it started, I am sure it was beginnning before I actually heard it, but it couldn't have been too long before 8000 miles.

VIN N0. 6000 range

----------------------------

Posted by Lokeey

Built December 2002
8500 miles


Went on a 1500 mile trip to Dallas, came back home and noticed the tires are feathering now. Before the trip they were not and I had 7000 miles on the car. Oh and speeds on the way there exceeded 130 mph so I am sure that did not help in the speeding up of the feathering issuse.

 

Ok so he has a series of pics showing a control arm bushing. Now what? Is it worn out? Is it out of spec? It's just a picture, nothing more. My 240's and 280 had rubber control arm bushings. Didn't eat tires, not even crappy ones. Didn't even eat tires when I replaced the tie rod ends and set the toe with a homemade gauge and an accuracy of + or - 2 degrees. Perhaps it is the culprit. Perhaps not. More likely it's the ripple inducing shocks. But the fact is that you didn't contradict one thing I said. I have followed this phenomenon, like everyone else, through 3 sets of tires and I have followed and contributed to this thread almost since the begining. Proactive? I most certainly am. I am raising a stink on every public forum and with the Dealers, and NNA and with the NTSB and anyone else who will listen every chance I get. But I'm not foolish or conceited enough to think that I will solve the problem where Nissan's own engineers have failed. Nor should I even try. That's not my job. I bought it to drive it not to study it. I give you the TSB. It only included vehicles up to a certain VIN number and manufactur date. Obviously the "engineers" already thought they had it fixed but guess what. It's still broke. And if they have fixed it on later '03's and the 04's they haven't bothered to tell us how they did it.