My AAM Experience. Its a long one. MUST READ
11-28-2007 | 06:34 AM
#22
Bobby,
Your car was in bad shape when you brought it to us. The technician that installed your kit did not help the matter as his installation was not to our standards (he is no longer employed here).
I've authorized Jason, Willis, Clint, and Frank to do everything necessary to make sure your car becomes 100% at no charge. I also asked them to help out with other problems your car had before you got here (ie. rattles, engine bolts, etc.) at no charge.
I was under the impression you had been taken care of - I am going to hold a meeting with everyone this morning to find out what still needs to be taken care of.
I understand every time you've been at the shop lately our good gestures have been negated by the problems with your car (some our fault through a sub par installation some reciprocal from the vehicles original condition).
I'd hope our honest efforts to take on any of your concerns at no charge mean something. I've always offered to check the tune on your car throughout the process because after any changes (ie. wastegates adjusted, intercooler pipe fixed) I wanted both of us to be confident the engine was running safely. Even when I dropped you off and picked you back up at school I hooked up our test equipment to check out everything during the ride so I could continue to perfect your car.
Please give me a call when you get a chance. I take the utmost pride in what we do here. I would like to arrange for a rental car for you so that we can keep your car overnight without you being inconvenienced and we will make sure any and every concern you have is completely addressed.
Your car was in bad shape when you brought it to us. The technician that installed your kit did not help the matter as his installation was not to our standards (he is no longer employed here).
I've authorized Jason, Willis, Clint, and Frank to do everything necessary to make sure your car becomes 100% at no charge. I also asked them to help out with other problems your car had before you got here (ie. rattles, engine bolts, etc.) at no charge.
I was under the impression you had been taken care of - I am going to hold a meeting with everyone this morning to find out what still needs to be taken care of.
I understand every time you've been at the shop lately our good gestures have been negated by the problems with your car (some our fault through a sub par installation some reciprocal from the vehicles original condition).
I'd hope our honest efforts to take on any of your concerns at no charge mean something. I've always offered to check the tune on your car throughout the process because after any changes (ie. wastegates adjusted, intercooler pipe fixed) I wanted both of us to be confident the engine was running safely. Even when I dropped you off and picked you back up at school I hooked up our test equipment to check out everything during the ride so I could continue to perfect your car.
Please give me a call when you get a chance. I take the utmost pride in what we do here. I would like to arrange for a rental car for you so that we can keep your car overnight without you being inconvenienced and we will make sure any and every concern you have is completely addressed.
11-28-2007 | 06:35 AM
#23
"Everyone has "growing pains" and back in 2005 we had ours... Alot of people are experiencing other shops growing pains at their expense if you know what I mean - and we are glad we have an experienced facility to fix other shops mistakes and totally take care of them moving forward."--- Mike M.
Alright Mike...Care to retract or elaborate on your statement from last weeks PM's to me? Sounds like you're experiencing the "growing pains" still from back in 1995, not just 2005. Man you must be numb to these "growing pains" by now. Seeing as how you have difficulty fixing your own screw ups or "growing pains" as you call them, how can you expect to fix others as well?
I feel bad for just about everyone who works there and have for years. A little advice, if you care to accept it, would be to get out now and let your knowledgable staff take over and make the money for you.
Alright Mike...Care to retract or elaborate on your statement from last weeks PM's to me? Sounds like you're experiencing the "growing pains" still from back in 1995, not just 2005. Man you must be numb to these "growing pains" by now. Seeing as how you have difficulty fixing your own screw ups or "growing pains" as you call them, how can you expect to fix others as well?
I feel bad for just about everyone who works there and have for years. A little advice, if you care to accept it, would be to get out now and let your knowledgable staff take over and make the money for you.
11-28-2007 | 06:41 AM
#25
Originally Posted by bboypuertoroc
Who are you and how do you know them?
11-28-2007 | 06:46 AM
#26
Originally Posted by Floridaboy1605
i had my car there and i will be doing my write up soon!!!
Which car was yours? Maybe Im confused...
Last edited by Driven1; 11-28-2007 at 06:53 AM.
11-28-2007 | 07:07 AM
#28
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From: South Riding, VA
Mike,
As i said in my post i have appreciated everything to try and fix the situations. But i have gone through to many problems with it to bring it back to you guys. all the stuff is just the tech not paying attention to what hes doing making it seem as if hes just in it for a pay check. You should have been overseeing his every move making sure everything was right and perfect, especially since he was brand new. thats good business management thats all that is. when i start a new job im not allowed to leave my boss' side they dont want some idiot making a bad name for themselves which is what you should of done with your new tech. as for the tune the last time you tried to do it you listened to everything and told me yea its running a little rich then you made some adjustments and said it should be running good now i am going to post a copy of my air/fuel graph and ill let you see for yourself how ugly it is especially after you said that to me. The wastegate situation your guys shouldnt have recommended that kit to me if you knew that you could only go so far on the wastegates its much more boost then i want at the moment. as for my car? it was never in bad shape rattles and all that came from your products that were on my car from previous visits. the only bad shape my car has been in is because of your and your one tech.
As i said in my post i have appreciated everything to try and fix the situations. But i have gone through to many problems with it to bring it back to you guys. all the stuff is just the tech not paying attention to what hes doing making it seem as if hes just in it for a pay check. You should have been overseeing his every move making sure everything was right and perfect, especially since he was brand new. thats good business management thats all that is. when i start a new job im not allowed to leave my boss' side they dont want some idiot making a bad name for themselves which is what you should of done with your new tech. as for the tune the last time you tried to do it you listened to everything and told me yea its running a little rich then you made some adjustments and said it should be running good now i am going to post a copy of my air/fuel graph and ill let you see for yourself how ugly it is especially after you said that to me. The wastegate situation your guys shouldnt have recommended that kit to me if you knew that you could only go so far on the wastegates its much more boost then i want at the moment. as for my car? it was never in bad shape rattles and all that came from your products that were on my car from previous visits. the only bad shape my car has been in is because of your and your one tech.
11-28-2007 | 07:13 AM
#29
Bobby, I'm sorry to hear that you are upset with your service. I am, however, very disappointed by your post 
.
Granted, your vehicle has had some issues. In an attempt to fix the problems you have encountered, everyone here, Mike more than anyone, has been overly considerate and courteous. We've continually gone way out of our way and out of our pocket to help you out.
Our gestures towards you have always been "take care of you without question". We've continually provided you with free tuning and service and have been, and are still, committed to solving all of your issues.
And as far as your dyno is concerned the power you put down at ISP, something like 385whp, on a vehicle with high-mileage at 7.5-8psi was by no means, bad. Not to mention the last time you were here, we re-tuned your vehicle with a wideband on the street to increase both drivability and reliability with the concerns we had with your engine. When you hop up on a dyno on a dyno day, particularly after the vehicle has been tuned specifically for everyday driving, your numbers will be lower; and your a/f will be different/rich because everyday cold-weather driving requires a/fs for everyday cold-weather driving.
Making a full pass on a dyno day is like being at the drag strip; The dyno (ISPs) is deriving its power rating from how fast the rollers can be accelerated at certain throttle percentages, (WOT on the dyno day). You drive your car everyday, so there is no reason to tune it for drag.
When tuning a vehicle for everyday driving conditions on a chassis dyno, results are very questionable for anything other than wide open throttle. In many cases, what appears to be a safe tune on a chassis dyno is everything but that on the street. This is one of the reasons we ALWAYS check and often re-tune vehicles after making peak power on the dyno with a wideband on the street. It is virtually impossible to do a cell by cell tune on a dyno and fully optimize the area under the curve for every day driving.
As to the rest of your issues, I hope to see you back here. As always, we will continue to put forth effort to solve your issues.
. Granted, your vehicle has had some issues. In an attempt to fix the problems you have encountered, everyone here, Mike more than anyone, has been overly considerate and courteous. We've continually gone way out of our way and out of our pocket to help you out.
Our gestures towards you have always been "take care of you without question". We've continually provided you with free tuning and service and have been, and are still, committed to solving all of your issues.
And as far as your dyno is concerned the power you put down at ISP, something like 385whp, on a vehicle with high-mileage at 7.5-8psi was by no means, bad. Not to mention the last time you were here, we re-tuned your vehicle with a wideband on the street to increase both drivability and reliability with the concerns we had with your engine. When you hop up on a dyno on a dyno day, particularly after the vehicle has been tuned specifically for everyday driving, your numbers will be lower; and your a/f will be different/rich because everyday cold-weather driving requires a/fs for everyday cold-weather driving.
Making a full pass on a dyno day is like being at the drag strip; The dyno (ISPs) is deriving its power rating from how fast the rollers can be accelerated at certain throttle percentages, (WOT on the dyno day). You drive your car everyday, so there is no reason to tune it for drag.
When tuning a vehicle for everyday driving conditions on a chassis dyno, results are very questionable for anything other than wide open throttle. In many cases, what appears to be a safe tune on a chassis dyno is everything but that on the street. This is one of the reasons we ALWAYS check and often re-tune vehicles after making peak power on the dyno with a wideband on the street. It is virtually impossible to do a cell by cell tune on a dyno and fully optimize the area under the curve for every day driving.
As to the rest of your issues, I hope to see you back here. As always, we will continue to put forth effort to solve your issues.
Last edited by Clint@Altered; 11-28-2007 at 03:20 PM.
11-28-2007 | 07:13 AM
#30
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From: South Riding, VA
my car was never in bad shape the only thing wrong with it was the body kit and the rims nothing that has anything to do with a butchered tt setup nothing was wrong with my engine belt and etc all that was wrong was purely cosmetic that doesnt affect performance. I hope this shows everyone that I proved my point that mike just has an excuse for everything never takes resposibilty for what he did. he has made excuses to me and several other people that i know. Ive even heard the excuse of it being too warm when tuning a car which is understandable but on the other hand ive heard people say that he has told them it was too cold when tuning a car. we dont live somewhere where its the same temp all year round at least pick an excuse and stick with it. AND EVEN DURING THIS 3 MONTH ORDEAL HE NEVER ONCE APOLOGIZED FOR BUTCHERING MY Z lol dave has apologized more times to me for what they did than mike has and its not even his shop.
Clint: i understand that you are disappointed in this post and i acknowledge that you jason will and frank are the only ones holding this company up without you guys it would plunder. But you have to see it from my point of view, for what mike charged me for everything I should have that piece of mind where im not coming in 7 or 8 times within those three months to fix stuff that should of been done right in the first place. i mean come on no windshield wiper fluid, the tech cant lock the steering you do realize that if for some reason those chords in the column got too tight it could of set the airbags off and could of possible killed me. its not so much as the power im upset about its everything not being done right the first time as it should of been, and when mike has tuned my car 4 or 5 times and its still sub par that makes you think what the hell is he doing.
Clint: i understand that you are disappointed in this post and i acknowledge that you jason will and frank are the only ones holding this company up without you guys it would plunder. But you have to see it from my point of view, for what mike charged me for everything I should have that piece of mind where im not coming in 7 or 8 times within those three months to fix stuff that should of been done right in the first place. i mean come on no windshield wiper fluid, the tech cant lock the steering you do realize that if for some reason those chords in the column got too tight it could of set the airbags off and could of possible killed me. its not so much as the power im upset about its everything not being done right the first time as it should of been, and when mike has tuned my car 4 or 5 times and its still sub par that makes you think what the hell is he doing.
Last edited by bsurdam; 11-28-2007 at 07:21 AM.
11-28-2007 | 07:19 AM
#31
Originally Posted by Clint@Altered
Bobby, I'm sorry to hear that you are upset with your service. I am, however, very disappointed by your post .
And as far as your dyno is concerned the power you put down at ISP, something like 385whp, on a vehicle with high-mileage at 7.5-8psi was by no means, bad. Not to mention the last time you were here, we re-tuned your vehicle with a wideband on the street to increase both drivability and reliability with the concerns we had with your engine. When you hop up on a dyno on a dyno day, particularly after the vehicle has been tuned specifically for everyday driving, your numbers will be lower; and your a/f will be different/rich because everyday cold-weather driving requires a/fs for everyday cold weather-driving.
Making a full pass on a dyno day is like being at the drag strip; remember: the dyno (ISPs) is deriving its power rating from how fast the dyno rollers can be accelerated at certain throttle percentages, (WOT on the dyno day).
When tuning a vehicle for everyday driving conditions on a chassis dyno, results are very questionable for anything other than wide open throttle. In many cases, what appears to be a safe tune on a chassis dyno is everything but that on the street. This is one of the reasons we ALWAYS check and often re-tune vehicles after making peak power on the dyno with a wideband on the street. It is virtually impossible to do a cell by cell tune on a dyno and fully optimize the area under the curve for every day driving.
As to the rest of your issues, I hope to see you back here. As always, we will continue to put forth effort to solve your issues.
. And as far as your dyno is concerned the power you put down at ISP, something like 385whp, on a vehicle with high-mileage at 7.5-8psi was by no means, bad. Not to mention the last time you were here, we re-tuned your vehicle with a wideband on the street to increase both drivability and reliability with the concerns we had with your engine. When you hop up on a dyno on a dyno day, particularly after the vehicle has been tuned specifically for everyday driving, your numbers will be lower; and your a/f will be different/rich because everyday cold-weather driving requires a/fs for everyday cold weather-driving.
Making a full pass on a dyno day is like being at the drag strip; remember: the dyno (ISPs) is deriving its power rating from how fast the dyno rollers can be accelerated at certain throttle percentages, (WOT on the dyno day).
When tuning a vehicle for everyday driving conditions on a chassis dyno, results are very questionable for anything other than wide open throttle. In many cases, what appears to be a safe tune on a chassis dyno is everything but that on the street. This is one of the reasons we ALWAYS check and often re-tune vehicles after making peak power on the dyno with a wideband on the street. It is virtually impossible to do a cell by cell tune on a dyno and fully optimize the area under the curve for every day driving.
As to the rest of your issues, I hope to see you back here. As always, we will continue to put forth effort to solve your issues.
11-28-2007 | 07:30 AM
#32
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From: South Riding, VA
Originally Posted by Driven1
What? and I wouldn't say it's so "virtually impossible". But maybe on an E-Manage.
Clint if you have read all that i have written in no way have i flat out said dont go here they are going to destroy your car, all i have done was share my experience as it says in the title just an experience
11-28-2007 | 07:32 AM
#33
Originally Posted by bsurdam
First of all I really dont want to do this but no one should go through what I have gone through. And seeing post go up defending or bashing AAM and how they are changing I have kept my mouth shut for a while but this needs to be heard. Anyway here we go.
In July/August I went to Altered and talked to them about installing a JWT TT in my car. We worked out the details and all and we were all set to go. So I bring my car to them dropping it off and everything on a specific week where my family was on vacation and I would have an extra car. Needless to say two days go by and then I finally get a phone call saying that they cant touch my car for another two weeks saying that they were behind on a project car and they had scheduled me for a different week then what I had told them on the phone. Not a good start.
Then after two weeks I finally got my car back tuned and everything, thinking I was good to go and shouldnt have any problems. WRONG. Didnt realize till the next day that I didnt even have windshield wiper fluid. The tech didnt do something right when relocating that. So I figured no big deal its a small problem and people make mistakes. Went back into them and Frank had to fix it. Finally I was on my way with my new TT.
Then within less than 100 miles on the car I end up on the side of 395 South broken down. Apparently the retard tech that put my new belt in didnt tighten the tensioner all the way which caused my idle pulley to fly off. Not only this but having the car towed to my house and then to Altered with a Vizage body kit on it is pretty nerve wrecking. Then Mike only offers to pay for half of it not the whole bill, like the douche bag he is. Leaving there pretty upset, but little did I know there was more to come.
So the same tech that destroyed my belt decided that when he took apart the steering, he didnt want to lock it in place and mark it so it can go back in at the same angle. So now starting my car every morning and letting out the clutch to start to drive causes the computer in my car to think that im going into a 90 degree turn causing the abs to kick in. Not a fun experience. Due to this I have actually lost throttle response on the highway and have had to pull over and restart my car. And the fact that it runs the risk of setting the airbags off at any given time if those chords around the steering column get too tight, which may of possibly killed me if im not expecting airbags to go off in even a 25mph turn. Now im pretty pissed off.
So i take it back and frank has to go over everything to make sure nothing else is wrong all because this retard didnt pay attention and doesnt give a s hit about what he does. Then one day playing with a supra on the fairfax co prkway the pipe going into my intercooler comes loose and is just sitting on top of where it connects, so coming to an idle the rpms drop down to zero but the car doesnt shut off and i have the the horsepower of a hybrid.
So I take it back yet again they fix it again as well as my steering problem. Then mike proceeds to make sure my tune is good and everything. After hearing him say yes it good now should have any problems, i should of known something was gonna happen.
So one night I decided to go to the ISP dyno day with some friends and dyno it. And it was dissapointing none the less. my air/fuel ration graph looked like an electrocardiogram (the instrument that judges your heartbeat in the hospital) and it was disgusting. And then I met someone who will remain nameless who has the same JWT set up as me and said he has gone through a tedious process with Altered as well, so this is not the first incident of them doing this. As well as having many forum members drive my car and feel the need to throw up with the tuning job mike did with all the misfiring and all the horsepower it didnt make.
Finally I have said screw this Im taking it to dave at Functioned to fix all this, Dave is now the man. But I do just want to make one thing clear, that place does have some hope. Everyone such has Jason, Will, Clint, and especially Frank have gone out of their way to fix these problems at no charge. I do applaud them for their customer support. They are the only reason why i would consider returning to that place.
The only problem of that place is the guy paying the bills that doesnt care about his business. He doesnt watch to make sure his employees are doing the right things or even follow up with them making sure they are doing things right, as well as cant tune a car (hes tuned my car four times and still cant get it right still to this day not completely tuned right) and he always has an excuse for whatever problem there is never will man up and say there is no excuse for it, ill fix it.
I dont wish this upon anyone so if you are thinking about taking your car to altered for a tt i would only let frank touch your car for the install and have someone else tune it. Thank you to those of you at altered who care and have helped me get through this ordeal.
In July/August I went to Altered and talked to them about installing a JWT TT in my car. We worked out the details and all and we were all set to go. So I bring my car to them dropping it off and everything on a specific week where my family was on vacation and I would have an extra car. Needless to say two days go by and then I finally get a phone call saying that they cant touch my car for another two weeks saying that they were behind on a project car and they had scheduled me for a different week then what I had told them on the phone. Not a good start.
Then after two weeks I finally got my car back tuned and everything, thinking I was good to go and shouldnt have any problems. WRONG. Didnt realize till the next day that I didnt even have windshield wiper fluid. The tech didnt do something right when relocating that. So I figured no big deal its a small problem and people make mistakes. Went back into them and Frank had to fix it. Finally I was on my way with my new TT.
Then within less than 100 miles on the car I end up on the side of 395 South broken down. Apparently the retard tech that put my new belt in didnt tighten the tensioner all the way which caused my idle pulley to fly off. Not only this but having the car towed to my house and then to Altered with a Vizage body kit on it is pretty nerve wrecking. Then Mike only offers to pay for half of it not the whole bill, like the douche bag he is. Leaving there pretty upset, but little did I know there was more to come.
So the same tech that destroyed my belt decided that when he took apart the steering, he didnt want to lock it in place and mark it so it can go back in at the same angle. So now starting my car every morning and letting out the clutch to start to drive causes the computer in my car to think that im going into a 90 degree turn causing the abs to kick in. Not a fun experience. Due to this I have actually lost throttle response on the highway and have had to pull over and restart my car. And the fact that it runs the risk of setting the airbags off at any given time if those chords around the steering column get too tight, which may of possibly killed me if im not expecting airbags to go off in even a 25mph turn. Now im pretty pissed off.
So i take it back and frank has to go over everything to make sure nothing else is wrong all because this retard didnt pay attention and doesnt give a s hit about what he does. Then one day playing with a supra on the fairfax co prkway the pipe going into my intercooler comes loose and is just sitting on top of where it connects, so coming to an idle the rpms drop down to zero but the car doesnt shut off and i have the the horsepower of a hybrid.
So I take it back yet again they fix it again as well as my steering problem. Then mike proceeds to make sure my tune is good and everything. After hearing him say yes it good now should have any problems, i should of known something was gonna happen.
So one night I decided to go to the ISP dyno day with some friends and dyno it. And it was dissapointing none the less. my air/fuel ration graph looked like an electrocardiogram (the instrument that judges your heartbeat in the hospital) and it was disgusting. And then I met someone who will remain nameless who has the same JWT set up as me and said he has gone through a tedious process with Altered as well, so this is not the first incident of them doing this. As well as having many forum members drive my car and feel the need to throw up with the tuning job mike did with all the misfiring and all the horsepower it didnt make.
Finally I have said screw this Im taking it to dave at Functioned to fix all this, Dave is now the man. But I do just want to make one thing clear, that place does have some hope. Everyone such has Jason, Will, Clint, and especially Frank have gone out of their way to fix these problems at no charge. I do applaud them for their customer support. They are the only reason why i would consider returning to that place.
The only problem of that place is the guy paying the bills that doesnt care about his business. He doesnt watch to make sure his employees are doing the right things or even follow up with them making sure they are doing things right, as well as cant tune a car (hes tuned my car four times and still cant get it right still to this day not completely tuned right) and he always has an excuse for whatever problem there is never will man up and say there is no excuse for it, ill fix it.
I dont wish this upon anyone so if you are thinking about taking your car to altered for a tt i would only let frank touch your car for the install and have someone else tune it. Thank you to those of you at altered who care and have helped me get through this ordeal.
... Glad to hear that Dave (yet again) came to the rescue.
11-28-2007 | 07:33 AM
#34
Originally Posted by Mike@Altered
Your car was in bad shape when you brought it to us.
Originally Posted by Mike@Altered
The technician that installed your kit did not help the matter as his installation was not to our standards (he is no longer employed here).
11-28-2007 | 07:34 AM
#35
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From: South Riding, VA
Originally Posted by dutchboy350Z
Quick fix so it's easier to read ... Glad to hear that Dave (yet again) came to the rescue.
... Glad to hear that Dave (yet again) came to the rescue.
11-28-2007 | 07:37 AM
#36
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F-UR-ENZO
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From: South Riding, VA
to add also i dont want anything left out cause i am honest, my car did have rust spots (it is an 03 and winter salt does take its toll) and my ac line is damaged for a jwt popcharger, which they did tell me but nothing that would have an affect on all of this
11-28-2007 | 07:50 AM
#38
Originally Posted by Clint@Altered
We've continually gone way out of our way and out of our pocket to help you out.
Originally Posted by bsurdam
Not only this but having the car towed to my house and then to Altered with a Vizage body kit on it is pretty nerve wrecking. Then Mike only offers to pay for half of it not the whole bill, like the douche bag he is.
Last edited by abui01; 11-28-2007 at 07:52 AM.
11-28-2007 | 07:50 AM
#39
Originally Posted by dutchboy350Z
... Glad to hear that Dave (yet again) came to the rescue.
11-28-2007 | 07:54 AM
#40
Originally Posted by abui01
Then why would you install the TT in the first place? Wouldn't you warn the customer prior to installation that his motor was not of par? Clearly he is under the impression that his car was working perfectly fine minus a few exterior blemishes.
This is not Bobby's fault if your technician cannot perform the tasks given to him. But if you knew this motor was in bad shape knowing very well that it would most likely need special attention and care, why would you put the "new guy" to "experiment" on his car? Should have had Frank do the twins from the start and have the new guy change oil or something to prove himself.
This is not Bobby's fault if your technician cannot perform the tasks given to him. But if you knew this motor was in bad shape knowing very well that it would most likely need special attention and care, why would you put the "new guy" to "experiment" on his car? Should have had Frank do the twins from the start and have the new guy change oil or something to prove himself.