New dyno numbers: 294 rwhp
11-19-2007, 03:41 PM
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I just want to point out that I am not disappointed in the power I am making at all. However, I would like to make more power. The easiest and least expensive thing to do first is to dyno with open test pipes. Then I can try different headers and the Cosworth manifold once it is released. I am confident that I can pick up another 10+ rwhp by experimenting with the headers, exhaust, and improving the intake system.
11-19-2007, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TheJerk
This is stupid logic.
A Bottle neck is a Bottle neck. I never understood someone saying Things like "in your build, its not worth it" The Nismo Exhaust most likely doesn't make power, and as RPM rise, he could be losing out on a broader power curve. I'm with Tony and Alberto on this one (big surprise)
A Bottle neck is a Bottle neck. I never understood someone saying Things like "in your build, its not worth it" The Nismo Exhaust most likely doesn't make power, and as RPM rise, he could be losing out on a broader power curve. I'm with Tony and Alberto on this one (big surprise)
The exhaust works just fine...a ~ 3 inch pipe, which is what a NISMO uses, is not a bottle neck at 300 whp, or 350 whp - one could argue the chambered muffler of the NISMO might be, but its all a balancing act of sound, looks and power - you're certainly not going to gain some magical power figure at this level by swapping exhausts.
Changing parts for the sake of changing parts is a waste of time and a waste of money, and rednezz has been through enough to know it. I'm just trying to help rednezz by sharing what I know. The issue with his setup runs alot deeper than what exhaust he has on the car - the rest is all semantics. When those fundamental issues are addressed, if at that point he wants to swap one exhaust for another, go for it - at least then it would be a meaningful test. But to suggest he does it now, as if the exhaust is costing him some mega amount of power, is humorous
It's an easy enough test to let the car run on the dyno with open test pipes and see how it does - you'll pick up a bit of power that way, but it's still not the reason the car is so shy on power. Given the parts, it should be making significantly more power that mine or Richies car, especially in the 5000 - 8000 ish rpm range.
Last edited by Z1 Performance; 11-19-2007 at 04:11 PM.
11-19-2007, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by rednezz
I just want to point out that I am not disappointed in the power I am making at all. However, I would like to make more power. The easiest and least expensive thing to do first is to dyno with open test pipes. Then I can try different headers and the Cosworth manifold once it is released. I am confident that I can pick up another 10+ rwhp by experimenting with the headers, exhaust, and improving the intake system.
Short ram, cold air - when the car is stationary with the hood open, its of little consequence.
11-19-2007, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
The exhaust works just fine...a ~ 3 inch pipe, which is what a NISMO uses, is not a bottle neck at 300 whp, or 350 whp - one could argue the chambered muffler of the NISMO might be, but its all a balancing act of sound, looks and power - you're certainly not going to gain some magical power figure at this level by swapping exhausts.
Changing parts for the sake of changing parts is a waste of time and a waste of money, and rednezz has been through enough to know it. I'm just trying to help rednezz by sharing what I know. The issue with his setup runs alot deeper than what exhaust he has on the car - the rest is all semantics. When those fundamental issues are addressed, if at that point he wants to swap one exhaust for another, go for it - at least then it would be a meaninful test. But to suggest he does it now, as if the exhaust is costing him some mega amount of power, is humorous
It's an easy enough test to let the car run on the dyno with open test pipes and see how it does - you'll pick up a bit of power that way, but it's still not the reason the car is so shy on power. Given the parts, it should be making significantly more power that mine or Richies car, especially in the 5000 - 8000 ish rpm range.
Changing parts for the sake of changing parts is a waste of time and a waste of money, and rednezz has been through enough to know it. I'm just trying to help rednezz by sharing what I know. The issue with his setup runs alot deeper than what exhaust he has on the car - the rest is all semantics. When those fundamental issues are addressed, if at that point he wants to swap one exhaust for another, go for it - at least then it would be a meaninful test. But to suggest he does it now, as if the exhaust is costing him some mega amount of power, is humorous
It's an easy enough test to let the car run on the dyno with open test pipes and see how it does - you'll pick up a bit of power that way, but it's still not the reason the car is so shy on power. Given the parts, it should be making significantly more power that mine or Richies car, especially in the 5000 - 8000 ish rpm range.
Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
intake wise, trust me, the car won't care when its sitting on the dyno what intake you're running
Short ram, cold air - when the car is stationary with the hood open, its of little consequence.
Short ram, cold air - when the car is stationary with the hood open, its of little consequence.
Last edited by rednezz; 11-19-2007 at 04:10 PM.
11-19-2007, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by TheJerk
Cams, and Cam-timing are key. I think Orsis allows this (only up to 6600rpm though)
11-19-2007, 04:13 PM
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I've got a suggestion on someone you can talk to about headers as well - they will be doing a set for our other Z in the near future, and I'd be willing to work with them to do more of an "all out" type setup
11-19-2007, 04:29 PM
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Here is a dyno graph of one of the first dyno pulls after correcting the A/F ratio and timing but with stock VTC angles versus my latest dyno with the same timing table but corrected A/F and additional cam advance 2800 rpm to 6600 rpm.
I have also included the VTC angles that got me in the ball park:
@2000 rpm 45 degrees
@3000 rpm 53 degrees
@4000 rpm 50 degrees
@5000 rpm 35 degrees
@6000 rpm 27 degrees
I have also included the VTC angles that got me in the ball park:
@2000 rpm 45 degrees
@3000 rpm 53 degrees
@4000 rpm 50 degrees
@5000 rpm 35 degrees
@6000 rpm 27 degrees
Last edited by rednezz; 03-21-2008 at 02:02 PM.
11-19-2007, 08:25 PM
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Just got you PM. I appreciate it...I will definitely talk to them.
As far as the timing that is what made the most power...anything more or less and I just lost power after 37 degrees.
As far as the timing that is what made the most power...anything more or less and I just lost power after 37 degrees.
11-19-2007, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rednezz
Just got you PM. I appreciate it...I will definitely talk to them.
As far as the timing that is what made the most power...anything more or less and I just lost power after 37 degrees.
As far as the timing that is what made the most power...anything more or less and I just lost power after 37 degrees.
I don't doubt it - I'm currently running max advance of 31 degrees - one of the things we want to do next time on the dyno is crank it up (my engine builder called my timing curve wimpy after I sent it to him
). We knew we had some room to go but it was hot and humid the day we tuned my car back in July, and since the motor was new, we figured we would leave it where it was.
11-20-2007, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
Finally saw this thread, thanks to Z1 pointing it out to me.
That abrupt drop off looks a little bit different than air starvation. Hurry up and bring this baby down...i would love to have a crack at it! It's BEGGING to break 300whp.
That abrupt drop off looks a little bit different than air starvation. Hurry up and bring this baby down...i would love to have a crack at it! It's BEGGING to break 300whp.
12-06-2007, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
would love to see what the ignition timing curve looks like
12-06-2007, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by TheJerk
Are you not the same - who said that there was really nothing to gain by playing with cam angles? I'm taking everything you say for now on as a grain of salt.
I said that about MY car with my setup, not about anyone else's. My engine mgmt choice doesn't afford me the ability to adjust VTC angles, nor would my cams even derive a substantial benefit by being able to reprogram them in the first place, as they are far milder than the cams being used on rednezz's car. If I ditched the UTEC and went with a standalone, then yes, I could adjust VTC as well, but at this time, I don't think it's worth the investment for me to do so. I am more than happy with my torque curve and horsepower curve, so I see no reason to change my engine mgmt at this time.
Withy rednezz's setup, obviously vtc mapping is critical - with mine, it's not
Last edited by Z1 Performance; 12-07-2007 at 05:07 AM.
