*Boose*

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the response. Sounds like this build started years ago. We still have a lot of potential for tuning our revups. Can't wait for you to make that high rpm power. It will get me off my fat ***. I love u btw noooo homo. Also I think you're going to make more like 20+ whp from 6500 and on. That's my guess. What size piping after the cats do you have? Single exhaust or true dual? Single outlet or dual?

Zazz93

iTrader: (2)

Good luck! Hopefully those headers correct some or most of the problems your seeing in the upper powerband. My guess is, they will yield about +10 whp on top and the rest is a little gremlin somewhere that needs to be found. Here's to hoping I'm wrong though.

Kwame

iTrader: (78)

Out of curiosity what are you expecting to spend on your motor build?

kacz07

iTrader: (15)

^I spend A LOT over the course of swapping parts out, etc. I see close to 14k in those parts alone. That build should be the ultimate NA motor.

Before I do something rash and switch to ITBs, I want to max out my setup now before sell it and swap it out. You have to put the money in, but once you're in, you're not losing everything since the parts will still hold value. Like I said, it is an ongoing project. I'm still using MAF to tune, which is the norm for most NA setups. I'd like to think I'm in a position to continue building and experimenting for years to come, so the experience and money spent now does have merit.

kacz07

iTrader: (15)

Inherently, I'm being conservative with 10whp UNTUNED, despite good success on Gabe's stroker and SG's car. I'm conservative also because I do not know how the porting and stepping in the intake/exhaust runners will affect flow.

With my current Mrev2/ 5/16th" spacer manifold setup, I expect my highest number is still going to be at 6300rpm, but with much better power to redline. A larger spacer than the 5/16th" will likely sustain greater high RPM power.

I'm likely going to switch out the lower collector for the Rev-up or do the Cosworth, at which point the car will be tuned. That is where I think we'll see a higher peak gain, 15-20+whp, shifted further to the right (peak at 6700rpm) and continuing on to 8k or further.

kacz07

iTrader: (15)

The "gray area" we're in now, is a result of a few things:

1) On stock internals, no one saw the real need to try larger spacers after MotorDyne's dyno shootout concluded that the 5/16th" (combined w/ Mrev2 for Rev-ups) made just as much power as the 1/2". That, I believe, was an untuned test.

On a Rev-up, I would venture a guess that the 1/2" spacer, combined with Mrev2, AND TUNE, will make more peak and residual power to redline than the 5/16th, especially with the tune's exhaust cam phasing.

I also think switching out the Mrev2 with the Rev-up lower collector will make the most power up top and to redline, but at more of a cost for low and mid-range output.

2) Almost no one with bolt-ons had delved into cams. For such a small market, MotorDyne, nor anyone else, performed testing on a highly modified NA motor. For anyone even questioning my motives, I am NOT placing blame. There was just no market or profit. I feel like I need to express that or risk some sort of misunderstanding.

3) Aftermarket EMSs were available before we maxed out the airflow capacity of the MAF, so people were polarized into two groups: those who spent small money (not really, just significantly less than FI) for intake/exhaust and those who went big and went FI.

SG is working hard on filling in this gap, so I'm sure this will be better understood during the R & D of their "Bolt-on 300+whp" package.

*Boose*

iTrader: (3)

An endless amount as I've come to terms I will never have enough ***** to sell it. I've actually calculated somewhat over $20k to build and tune. Probably going to run into issues along the way so probably a $30k cushion. So probably by 2013-2014 it will be completely finished. It's a short term goal. Gotta start saving if I want to do it right. However, more expensive unnecessary add ons like the dry sump is more of a dream than possibility. Maybe if more people dwell into that area then it may become a reality.

1cockyZ

iTrader: (46)

You guys throw around dollar amounts and I laugh my *** off.

2004Black350z

iTrader: (37)

30k for NA? WTF

KA24DE

Sorry man, I researched this extensively and ultimately what you are doing is trading total area under the curve for peak power, and it probably will not be any higher. I was a HUGE supporter of the Rev Up plenum, until insurmountable evidence proved that it just wasn't as efficient as the non rev. The Cosworth manifold is all around rubbish, and I wouldn't even consider it.

KA24DE

https://my350z.com/forum/na-builds/4...d-build-6.html

*Boose*

iTrader: (3)

To do it right. But I'm full of **** anyway. It probably won't happen. I wont even have an exhaust by the end of the year.

*Boose*

iTrader: (3)

Even with bolt ons you lose peak power going to the non revup. To say the revup is not efficient I believe is wrong. It just needs more airflow. I.e larger tb, more intake etc.

kacz07

iTrader: (15)

For my setup, I think a ported Non-rev or Revup lower collector and a big spacer would give me the most peak and no drop off to redline, which I may be able to increase so long as it makes power. Power extended and slightly higher peak makes up for the area lost "under the curve" in the lower rpms. With larger cams, manifold volume becomes more important. Then, in my amateur opinion, intake increases will be a back and forth between velocity (more throttle body size and runner porting) and volume (spacer/porting for volume/collector choice). SG blew out the intake and opened it up as much as possible, but for those using MAF to monitor airflow, we have a few restrictions.

kacz07

iTrader: (15)

Additionally, the Cosworth probably needs more tuning to optimize. It may lower torque, but allows for high RPM airflow characteristics to extend torque much deeper into the powerband (Gabe, Jmccarty, JB). This is similar to what the Rev-up collector and the HR/VHR manifold does.

The alternative is what I mentioned above, where you're trying to disagree with me, and that is porting the non-rev collector and add a big spacer/upper plenum. You'd keep the area under the curve and get past the 6300rpm surge/dip that 1cockyz, SG, and I have seen with the Mrev2/non-rev lower collector.

*Boose*

iTrader: (3)

There's only so much porting you can do. The mrev2 isn't that almost ported to the max? Regardless they don't sell just a non revup plenum. There is an extensive amount of work put into that manifold. I know there is. No matter what a stock non revup plenum will not outflow at max rpm a stock revup. It shows with bolt ons and it shows with built cars. What we need is a larger tb, larger vstack, and a larger plenum spacer. That will ensure power is made up to 7k rpms. Also he needs a better header setup. Until he adds the sg headers we will not know how much restriction the intake is causing.

KA24DE

Actually, no you don't, where are you getting this information from?

Nonrev vs revup plenum, same tune.

And stop mentioning the cosworth, it's a terrible manifold design that showed 0 worthwhile gains over a nonrev with spacer.

Zazz93

iTrader: (2)

Wow KA24DE, I didn't realize that blue line was a Rev-up Manifold. I really think there is something robbing your top-end. There aren't any other extra mods in the red and green lines?

*Boose*

iTrader: (3)

I never mentioned the cosworth.

*Boose*

iTrader: (3)

And look at any dyno with bolt ons as these are the only ones that compare revup manifold to mrev2 and you will see a power loss from 6500 and on. For instance motordyne has a few on their site that shows.

Here:

http://www.motordyneengineering.com/...i-analysis.jpg

and here:

http://www.motordyneengineering.com/...page_large.jpg

Both show losses of power at top end. However, I do understand you gain a decent amount mid range, but that's not the arugument here at all. All you have to do is look at a dyno, that's where I get my information from. People who have already spent their money.