While I do encourage debate, I do not approve of the excessive use of name calling to get one's point across. Please choose your words carefully gents and I encourage you to not engage in this type of banter. Please utilize the "report post" button to report such offenses. Carry on...


VO

 

the_coupe, your boy have that lower ready yet???? lol

 

nah. still hasnt touched it. ill just update yall when it is finished. should have my changed intake setup around tuesday or so tho.

 

cool,
my heads are on the way to the east coast and my rotating assembly will be balanced by wednesday

 

 

 

I'll be back in town from DC/MD on the 14th. There is a meet up that night at Quaker Steak. I'm just looking for an excuse to ride in your car now. Interested?

 

Although KA is kind of out of whack with his approach, I think more people should look at SG's 'results' with a grain of salt. Some of it is rather hard to believe and simply put fudged.
They show massive gains with their headers for example, but they already had nismo race cams, intake, full exhaust, and a standalone ecu with plenty of dyno time. Not saying the headers aren't impressive, but I get the feeling they are fudging numbers around for their own benefit. Also, they gained the same hp as the headers by their open style exhaust. IDK, not claiming they are liars, but I'm just saying I wouldn't believe it all. And too boot, I haven't fully researched it so I could be totally wrong on this, it just seemed kinda funny when I was watching all their videos...
Back to topic though lol

 

What setup was their open style exhaust? Where was it opened at?

 

If you havnt researched it why are you commenting? if you would have looked into it for more than 30 seconds you would have seen that they tested their headers on a pretty much stock DE NON REV UP and got a around 10 whp. if they were trying to fool you or feed you **** then they would not have posted anything. they also mention you need supporting mods, especially cams, in order to make more power.
i think people generalize things to much. just because header A or B show losses or minimal gains dosnt mean ALL headers will have similar results. cant just bolt **** up and expect it to work with everything else or without changing things.
also, when they bought the car, they did multiple dynos showing the power they were starting with, with none of their own products, which was already making around 300 whp.
why is it so hard to believe that with fairly aggressive cams (corect me if im wrong, but they mention after the cam shoot-out for modified mag, that they relized that they did not have nismo s1 cams but actually something more aggressive), TUNED exhaust, TUNED headers and other miscellaneous bolt on's, can someone make around 320 whp? 20 more than when they started. and with a custom pleunum, built bottom end, and JWT c10/9 cams (****in crazy cams) make around 345 whp? dosnt seem to unbelievable imo. smart people can accomplish some pretty amazing things.
also, most of the **** they made, that showed gains, they didnt sell or quit selling. seems stupid to feed you **** if they are not trying to sell a product. why cant they just be sharing information? there are a few nice people out there.
there are others on this forum that have switched to their headers, with already extreme builds (gabe3d and kacz07 for example), that made 20-25 whp on top of their old aftermarket headers/test pipes.

 

I have to throw my two cent in here too, I get your point about SG's "Race Car" tests and research, but lets get it straight he NEVER tried to make the point these numbers were gonna happen on a stock car. He's been in full disclosure mode from the start. His goal is to create a kit that makes the horsepower every wants and I commend he and his shop for sharing the research they did with us.

 

 

I read his entire (informative) thread and got alot of great information BUT no questions I asked were responded to. (which is his right) but I'd hold off on his beatification just for a while.

 

i agree with lemmi and zazz. they, SG, have shown and documented what mods have done what...on their RACE car. the de motor stock with bolt-ons will NOT make 300whp. sorry. they had plenty of mods and even more important the EMS that they have done tons of time tuning with. so it all boils down to a CAI and y-pipe back exhaust will NOT give you 20hp on a stock/mildly modded DE. the rest of this has wound up out of control if you ask me.
and besides, when i take my car back to CIN with the different intake...we will see which one gave me more power. the end.

and thanks hop we will see about the 14th tho

 

Great build. Thanks for taking the time to take pics.

 

With the revup lower, I would expect to see a shift in peak to the right. Also, we will be able to see if the Megan's can hang with a proper header setup, like SGs. If the Megan's can, power should peak and hold >6500, an RPM range where power has been elusive on all but a few NA builds.

Keep in mind that my car made 13 more peak whp than the Megan's and almost 50whp at redline with the Cosworth/SG setup Vs. Cosworth/Megan. All this comes despite decreasing the MAF housing diameter and swapping in the Injen CAI. I think I'd get higher numbers with the stock box and 3" MAF.

Very interested in the results, but I think the peak and shape of the curve will be largely resulting from the manifold, not the intake. Hopefully we can see a dyno overlay of each individual component's effect.

 

You made 50hp+ over Megan's at red line?

 

^that's not as far fetched as it first sounds, remember peak power at redline refers to how much drop off the headers had after making there max hp back at 6500-6900. If you'r rev'ing to 8000 its just a matter of how efficent everything is working to hold the power up at respectable levels, instead of falling to the floor after 7000.

 

I'm going to step back and take a deep breath, because this is the problem with online forums in general. All it takes is one uninformed individual to make an erroneous statement, and someone takes it as fact.

SG's car was stock. Period. With the addition of an intake and exhaust, the car gained 20whp. You are welcome to read the thread for yourself, but refrain from making ridiculous accusations and assumptions before you know the facts.

You obviously don't understand my point at all, because SG's original test car wasn't a racecar, it was a Z roadster. Save for his long tube headers, there is nothing exotic or unusual about his progress on his roadster. 250whp with the "basic" bolts ons (Y pipe, intake, exhaust) and 29whp more with the addition of his long tube headers, I believe we can conclude that his results were not out of the ordinary.

Though the original point was that Sasha, a person who races 350Z's and has built the most powerful stock bottom end all motor Z on the forums, figured out that a particular style of intake worked better than stock.

"... I really feel like these engines can make 350whp N/A without any bottom end work, and I guess thats our goal."
Yeah, and he'll totally get there by sabotaging himself.

 

Actually, I HAVE personally dynoed different styles of intakes on MANY different cars to know what works.
On a seperate note, how much is dyno is your time? Do you have the intakes avaliable?

This is the most *** backwards approach, and I'm sad to see how prevelent it has become. You are correct to point him in the direction to change one componet at a time so it is known how the car is impacted. Just for the record, Injen steps down the MAF size on purpose. I doubt there is much gain to be had (a few hp) by upsizing, and there is ZERO gain in the stock airbox versus the long tube style intake.