well i for one am glad you are. ive been pouring all over the old stuff here. im tired of losing by a few cars to all the stock-ish hr cars around here. hopefully ill have some useful information to contribute to new threads after i get my setup up and running. this would be the fourth car ive sprayed on. if you want to toss around ideas, feel free to hit me up!

 

Ok, I'm putting together my nitrous solution and I've been playing around with some estimates based on:

Nitrous + Nano
Upgraded clutch & flywheel
Upgraded fuel pump
Copper colder plugs
Separate Osiris maps for stock/nitrous
Dyno tuned for the above maps
Window Switch or Progressive Controller
My latest dyno results
Calculated torque added by different shot size at varying RPM

I created an Excel spreadsheet to chart out different options for single stage and dual stage. I even went as far as generating an estimated dyno chart for one of the possible dual stage configurations.

I'm thinking that I don't want to add more than 50% torque over what the engine is currently producing at any given RPM since I have stock internals (RED cells), but this is just a guess. I'm also realizing that traction may be a serious issue at lower RPMs (YELLOW cells). I based my "danger to manifold" estimates on percentage of increased torque since that's what breaks parts, not HP.

I figure that it's a good stepping stone for me, because if I spend on a smaller dual stage nitrous now, I can consider building the engine to support dual stage, direct port, and higher power in the future. Also, whatever I build out for the engine can always be transitioned in the future to other FI options since that would require low compression as well. In other words, I can minimize wasted investments and double spending by building a nitrous solution first as opposed to building NA.

This is new ground for me, so I'm just asking if I'm at least thinking about this the right way. Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks!

 

Your zip file is 22 bytes -- it's empty. I don't think this is necessary either, as I think I'm getting what you're trying to say without looking at your calculated cells.

Anyway, here's my thought based on your above post:

• Upgraded fuel pump isn't a necessity from what I've seen with other juiced Z. However, it may be useful in reducing the brief and sudden fuel pressure drop off the moment nitrous is sprayed. I'd only recommend this if you have plans to make more power down the line and if so, you should choose based on your future goals.
• Progressive controller will be hard on your solenoids as it pulsates them in varying speeds until fully open. Anything that goes on/off will experience additional wear and require additional maintenance. Unless you're doing a huge shot (instant monster torque), I don't think this is necessary.
• Calculated is only a rough estimate at best and is almost always unrealistic (too many variables). At this point, your numbers are 100% conjecture. Dyno with increasing jet sizes to gauge how your car reacts to nitrous for a better estimate.
• Assuming the stock DE engines produce about 250 torque to the wheels (overestimated and simplified), that means you're only shooting for additional 125 ft-lbs, which is probably like a 75 shot. That means you don't need a 2 stage, progressive controller, or upgraded fuel pump. You can also get by without the colder plugs and a separate map/tune with this small of a shot.
• Traction will always be an issue with nitrous, as you're adding INSTANT additional torque. This can be remedied with a progressive controller or gear lockout. To use a progressive controller for that small of a shot, imho, is a waste of money. Gear lockouts can be achieved by simply not spraying in that gear yourself. Solution = wait to spray until 3rd, maybe 2nd, on street tires. If your answer involves "street racing," then I can understand why but I won't address that here (our TOU prohibits any and all street racing material).
• As for building the engine to support multi-stage, direct port, and bigger shots... you haven't built anything. No internals = no build. If you're talking about having the appropriate accessories for bigger shots, then internals are what you should be addressing. Nitrous is already simple as it is. There's not much to add or take away, so if you can afford the extra bells and whistles now, just save it and use it when the time comes.

 

Essentially, I was thinking about this general gameplan:

STAGE I (immediate)
--------
Includes supporting mods mentioned above
dual stage: 50 shot from 2600+ and an additional 75/100 shot from 4000+
Goals - whatever torque level isn't over the top for my existing rod bolt & stock DE engine (I'm estimating that 375whp/375tq (50% increase) is the reasonable limit for a stock block.)

STAGE II
---------
Built low compression engine
upgrades to tranny, diff, cooling, etc
Dual stage direct port nitrous
Whatever torque level is reasonable/expected for supporting components
Goal - 450-600whp range

STAGE III (may be a pipe dream)
----------
Twins?
Goal - 600+

The idea is to have a way to spend gradually as I'm ready for more, but to minimize wasted spending. That way I can upgrade supporting components along the way, and get to enjoy the upgrades along the way as quarterly rewards vs one big investment/build.

It's just cheap and an easy target to go ahead and get out of the way since I'll need it for stage II.

I was just looking at some of the features of the MicroEdge and liked it versus UTEC, separate window switch, TPS, etc. It just ties it all together in one device. Also, it is probably overkill for the Stage I 125hp total, but it's planning for the future vs buying something now that won't scale up for future plans.

Definitely. I think that the spreadsheet would have made more sense if it had worked, because I'm just not sure if I'm planning the overlap at the right spots for the two stages. I'll try to upload again.

The spreadsheet uses the TQ and HP from actual dyno runs on my car, but until I have dyno runs with the jets, I'm just using the calculator to estimate what jets I should test with on the dyno to get the real numbers. I want to make sure that I'm thinking this all out and planning properly before I book the dyno time, though - because I'll be paying by the hour.

No street racing here. I'm trying to match the fall off of stage one so that it isn't as much of a jump when stage 2 comes on. In an imaginary world, I could just run enough different stages to smooth it all out, staging it up a little each time. But we know that isn't practical. However, instead of not using it at all, I was trying to go with a small enough shot to give me some more time under the curve all the way through my dyno by using two stages. That's because I know that the bigger shot that I use for a single stage requires me to start that stage higher in my RPM range or only in higher gears.

The idea is to invest in stages. Stage one doesn't require a built engine, but by investing in a lot of the things that I'll need for stage 2 & stage 3, I can then build an engine with an appropriate forged bottom end, low compression, etc. and then just "turn up" my nitrous setup to another level.

Sorry that my original message wasn't clear. The spreadsheet would have helped, too.

Thanks!

 

Or is the idea of building an engine to run multistage direct port nitrous to hit a 450-600hp goal a flawed plan entirely? I haven't seen anyone building an engine to then use nitrous, because I haven't seen anything over a single 150 shot mentioned.

 

There's no need for you to start the 1st stage that low. You'll never be at that low of RPM unless you're starting from a standstill (or under 20 mph) in 1st gear. You shouldn't be spraying that low of an RPM in any other gear and you should probably be in a lower gear/higher RPM.
This all sounds nice.. in theory. Dual stage DP will be expensive and almost guaranteed to be unnecessary for most set ups. You should also think about how much room this will take, where the lines are going to run, how it's going to look, required maintenance, etc.
Looks like you're trying to maximize your quarterly rewards (ex. dual stage DP set up), but doing so may cost you more in the long run especially when compared to a slightly smaller reward (and cheaper) that will probably be just as satisfying.
The overlap, if you're trying to maximize everything, should really depend on your traction. After all, none of the increase power matters if you can't accelerate. Find out the limits of your tires at whatever the 1st stage is going to look like, then determine where you can start the 2nd stage and with how big of a shot.
That's what a progressive controller is for.


If I can be frank, I think you're over-thinking everything. Stick to a simple wet kit with the MicroEdge or whatever other accessories you want to add. There's no need for dual stages or direct port since you're not planning on spraying huge shots and because of your future plans. While I understand the desire to maximize everything, it looks like you'll be spending money on things that will only benefit you like 10% more. Do you really think spraying 1000 RPM earlier is going to be all that different in the real world?

I'm not discouraging either the dual stage or direct port set up because added safety and better power delivery is good, but added $$$ outweighs the benefits, imho. Plus, once you decide to turbocharge, most of your power will be realized through the turbo(s) and not nitrous. I mean, why wouldn't you when it's much easier to use a boost controller? So, that likely means that you'll only be spraying smaller amounts for cooling and faster spooling purposes. Dual stages will almost be useless at that point, but direct port will give you the piece of mind that nitrous is being evenly distributed to each of the cylinders.

 

That makes sense. I need to see in real life what shot & RPM combo is going to still give me traction. I'm a project manager and network design guy, so detailed planning is ingrained into my brain. I tend to over-think things sometimes.

I'll do what you said and see what I get out of the single stage setup, then think about the dual stage at that point. I just have to decide if I want to go with the standard window switch, TPS, etc. or get the MicroEdge for some "future proofing". I also want to find a remote guage for keeping an eye on the Nano pressure - since it looks like that's how I'll know when my nitrous is getting low. I'm going to call Nano on Monday and see what they recommend.

Also, you said "when you decide to turbocharge" as it would be a given, so I'm assuming that at some point everyone leaves nitrous for turbo due to the flexibility of boost controllers, no hassle refilling bottles, etc.

Thanks for all of the help. One day, we'll end up at the same event and I'll owe you a couple of beers - or a bourbon and a cigar.

 

All this talk is compelling me to finally get my N20 tuned. Just need a window switch and some dyno time at R/T Tuning. Nice info.

 

what shot?

 

The Dynotune Nitrous window switch is a throttle position sensor (TPS), gear lockout, 2 stage, and window switch (for each stages) in one. The MicroEdge controller has a few delay functions that the Dynotune does that have and a lean shut-off. For most cases, you'd be fine with the Dynotune, but the added safety features of the MicroEdge certainly couldn't hurt.

I said "when you decide to turbocharge" because your "Stage III" had "twins" in it. Plus, I've never seen anybody with a VQ build strictly for nitrous. And if it did exist, it'd probably be a drag car.

People get nitrous for different reasons. Some get it for the cheap power, some get it for the flexibility, some get it temporarily, etc. There are just as many reasons why people leave nitrous.

 

I believe the kit I bought comes with a 75 and a 100 jet. The engine is built NA, so I should be able to handle double that without too much concern, but I'd like to get comfortable with the power before doing something that drastic.

I'm already at 310whp/280wtq, so I'd expect to see about 400whp/wtq @75 and a little more w/ the 100.

 

OP i found a few videos that might help make this a little more noob friendly....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BqreiLcDaA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN4XV...f=list_related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWlc1...f=list_related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDrzH...f=list_related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkH9t...f=list_related

 

im going to be running a 200 shot on my built z and was wondering what jets to use with e85 i heard you have to use different ones..

 

http://www.nitroustech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1161
Remember, that's FUEL JET ONLY. And as always, play with the jets to find what works best for your car.

 

Thanks that helps alot. I'm calling Hal @ Dynosty today as well. I'm bringing alot of fuel jets anyways with me when i get it tuned. But the conversion helps thanks again

 

Start your own thread on your progress and keep us updated.

 

i did its in the engine and drive train >>> nitrous oxide>> titled completing my nitrous build... i started it over the winter and didnt even think to do a thread of it on here but i just started it but i can atleast get pictures up when i install the nitrous and all the components so people have ideas where to put thigns, and also the wiring that i will be doing so futurte nitrous users arent lost but i do have a started thread

 

fixed the original message

 

I am looking to install Nitrous on my 2003 G35 Sedan 6spd, but i have a few questions about what is needed to install and use safely to preserve the engine. So I was am looking into getting a Walbro 255 Fuel Pump, God Speed Fuel Rails/Fuel Rail Tap and Injectors (Which would be better? 440cc or 550cc), along with the Zex G35 Specific Wet Kit with a max shot of 150. I have also sent my Heads out for Port & Polishing, in the proccess of deciding on which JWT Cams, Titanium JWT Springs/Retainers, and also POrt & Polishing the lower intake collector and lower intake Plenum (already have Kinetix V+.... I just want to make sure these fuel options will not just be a waste of $$ and will they help when all the mods are put together??

Thanks
Jonathan

 

Nitrous and "safe" do not go together when you are talking about your engine.