Blackbird CPV35

iTrader: (19)

ive got aftermarket widebands in and it still surges a little, and it was tuned by the man himself. Luckily Hal didn't lock my tune so it looks like ill have to adjust a few things.

Is there any interface that can monitor AFR in real time instead of me having to use the datalogging on the Haltech? it would be pretty cool to have a cell by cell afr chart in real time

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

I agree that would be a nice user interface feature to have - like the UTI tool. Hal should show the UTI screenshot to the Haltech developers. That way you know exactly how much to adjust many cells all at once. Without data logging, I don't know how to get there with the Haltech though. With your aftermarket widebands, one full datalog should give you tons of data to tweak with. I would just send the log and tune off to Hal and I bet he'd get it tweaked in no time.

I would log rpm, load, both widebands, actual base fuel in ms. I'm not certain but Hal may want some transient throttle parameters also.

BrazenZ

I have just installed the Haltech computor with 2-AEM wideband sensors. The AEM O2 is a bosch sensor and is visually indentical as the OEM sensor from Nissan, It has the exact same pigtail and length of wiring. I can't find any part numbers on either sensor to confirm that they are same, but I have strong suspicion that are.

Anybody that installed the system with AEM widebands care to chime in?

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

The sensors are actually all the same - very few manufacturers. In fact Bosch is the ONLY true manufacturer that I know of (all others are rebadged to my knowledge). It's the control circuitry that drives the sensor that results in the difference in performance.

SnyperZ

iTrader: (10)

What im worried about is the fact that I can only use 1 wideband. I have a single turbo setup so I have to put it in the downpipe. How safe is it to run the whole setup off of one wideband in the downpipe? I cant see the tuning ever being able to be really close.. Maybe I can put the widebands in the stock locations and add one bung to the downpipe and have all 4 stock ones in the same location..esp since they arent being used anymore...any thoughts on this? Maybe you can help me set up the program since I have no idea how to use it. =P

SnyperZ

iTrader: (10)

Also, it says that the earlier model 350z came with narrow band sensors(mine being an 04 im guessing its considered the earlier years)

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

Midway through 2004, they started using widebands in Zs/Gs (2004.5 is the designation technically). I wouldn't worry about the single wideband for your single downpipe (as long as it is an aftermarket - stock circuitry is kind of crappy). Left and right banks don't differ that much and you can just assume that one is within 5% of the other. You have the stock forward widebands located still in each bank, correct? If so, you can get differential readings from there (if you have a 2004.5+ Z).

Blackbird CPV35

iTrader: (19)

uti is exactly what I was talking about, I used it when I had the UTEC and it made the tuning sooo much easier. I havent had a chande to play around much with light throttle conditions, but I can probably do it all myself without having to bother Hal.

SnyperZ

iTrader: (10)

Mines a 2004..(not .5) because I can set my redline. Would you mind giving me a quick haltech 101 sometime? new to this program and havent really bothered messing with it.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

DISCLAIMER: There is no substitute for a professional tune to ensure safe fuel and ignition timing under boost. The margin for error becomes small as temperature and cylinder pressure increase. I have read a lot about tuning and received a lot of guidance from Sharif and Hal (these guys are brilliant). My car has been professionally tuned by Sharif on multiple occasions as build specs changed but I've learned to tweak a little bit here and there with his help. There IS NO substitute for experience on how a car feels and sounds. So that said, I don't mess with timing at all or fuel under boost. I think there is an opportunity to tune part throttle for improved car feel and fuel economy with a relatively large margin of safety and so I'm comfortable sharing my experience in this regard.

So you've got a wideband and you're going to tune out of boost only on the road. It's really quite easy and thanks to the Haltech GUI you can do it on your own fairly safely but it is safer of course with 2 people. You've been warned. Don't get in an accident please!

1. Get a laptop in the passenger seat hooked up to the Haltech via USB and start ECU Manager 1.0. Click connect.

2. Click on Setup >> Main Setup. For the closed loop feedback, I have mine set to activate below 3500 rpms, TPS less than 20%, and max correction set to plus or minus 15%, max PSI -1.5 (so closed loop only at vacuum). You can lower the numbers for less closed loop interaction but the more work it is to dial in the base fuel numbers. Click OK and reboot the CPU (turn car off, wait 5 secs, turn back on).

3. Reconnect. (icon is at top left, 2nd icon over)

4. Using the navigation pane to the left, click Target AFR. Fill out your targets. I target 15 at low load and low rpms and scale up to 13 at higher load (table only goes to 0 psi for me).

5. Click on the base fuel table. You should see a spreadsheet view. If you don't see a spreadsheet view that spans most of the screen, then you've got to set that up first. Just play with it until you can see a lot of the cells at once.

6. Drive around in each gear watching your wideband. If you are in the 13.5 to 14.5 range, you're in good shape for part throttle driving. When you see it go above or below that, try to hold the throttle steady so the wideband reads steady (outside the range), and hit SPACEBAR (to automatically move to the current cell), hit "P" for percentage change, hit "-" or "+", then a single digit number to change that percentage richer or leaner (I adjust in increments of 2 or 3 usually only). So say its reading 16 afr at -8 psi and 3000 rpms. I would hit spacebar, then P, then -2. Done with that cell for now.

7. Repeat step 6 through different gears, different throttle positions, and different cells. You may want to turn the trace on by pressing "T". This is an iterative, tedious process, but can be quite rewarding if you're looking to get your feet wet with tuning. Just make small changes, stay out of the boost columns and you should be fine.

There are several other tweaks that you need to dial in that I won't go over and are best left to a pro tuner. For example another table to tweak is enrichment sensitivity and percentage enrichment and you have to go by feel for those as I noted in a prior post. You can adjust fuel if your fuel pump change pressure based on your battery voltage (injector dead time), air temp correction, coolant temp correction, among others...

I'm tired of writing but that should work out the kinks for 90% of daily driving. Once you see the number of correction tables and calibrations in the Haltech, it makes you appreciate the effort a pro tuner goes through. Well worth the money - esp. for getting timing just right. Many thanks to Sharif and Hal for their guidance. I love the Haltech GUI.

LAST DISCLAIMER: Those of you thinking about tuning a boosted car for the first time on your own - don't! Take it to a shop that has tuned FI VQ35 motors before. I mean it! DO NOT BLAME ME FOR BLOWING YOUR MOTOR BECAUSE YOU ACCIDENTALLY TYPED INTO THE WRONG COLUMN OR WERE EDITING THE WRONG TABLE. This simple guide is for SnyperZ and others that know what they are doing and just need to learn to use Haltech's GUI to get the car running well enough to drive long distance to a pro tuner without stalling or hesitating.

Dave 90TT

iTrader: (4)

It also needs to be said that it is MUCH, MUCH safer to do this with a passenger who is using the laptop, rather than doing it yourself, and even then, make sure you are on a more or less deserted road. otherwise, you are just asking for trouble, legal, and otherwise.

SnyperZ

iTrader: (10)

Where is the closed loop feed back..in 02 control??

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

Yes. Make sure you have your aftermarket wideband wired in to the Haltech. I posted a wiring PDF that I got from Hal somewhere - can't find it now...

SnyperZ

iTrader: (10)

Ok, well I plan on hooking up the LC-1 tomorrow. But based on what you said I went in and played with the narrow band and I can tell you it drives about 80% better than it did before. The bucking at certain rpms are now more of a hull I guess youd call it..it seems like it drags for a split second at a certain point at 2500rpms and one more time at 3000. Before the car would violently buck before. It still stalls somewhat but not as idle anymore.

Heres a picture I took...the top one is a base I got and the bottom is the slight corrections I made. Please give me your feedback/improvments(harsh is welcome). Also, maybe you can give me a little more 101 on what else can be changed as far as just normal drivability. I did not and will not play with any positive pressure numbers as I dont want 4th of july to come early from my engine bay.

Before

After

The biggest problem im having is rpm range 2-3000rpm/-17.5-11-7..those 4 blocks are the only ones left that I cant seem to get the delay out of.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

Ok keep in mind a narrow band basically can only tell you if you are above or below 14.7. So tuning too far away from that number is meaningless until you get your wideband wired in to the Haltech.

Those numbers are generally pretty rich and your gas mileage will be poor. Based on those numbers I'd say your driveability glitches are due to too much fuel, but I have little experience with narrowbands so I'm not sure how it's reacting to those targets. If you go look at a NA AFR curve on a dyno graph you'll see it starts out above 14 and dips to 13 at high rpms. Since we are basically NA tuning here, I'd follow suit. The 0 column is fine because as you transition in to boost, you want to go rich. Also remember your cut off for MAX PSI controlled by the closed loop is set to some negative number (like -2 PSI). The Haltech will interpolate in between columns (linearly). I'd add a few columns between -5.8 and 0 so you can gradually go richer. Most daily driving is between -10 and -3 PSI I've found. If you can keep that range between 15-13 respectively, she'll drive like stock. At 0 being at 12.4 is fine though - I like all the corners on your spreadsheet - just need to lean out the middle (particularly from -6 to -3 - I'd target 14 to 13, going richer as you approach 0 psi and as your rpms increase). Remember this is all under vacuum with a TPS under 20% and max rpms under 3500 - low cylinder pressures - so no worries about detonating

EDIT: Keep in mind these AFRs are NOT active under boost. They will not save you from a poorly tuned map under boost.

Dynosty

iTrader: (27)

Being an '04 I suspect he has widebands. Snyper, you really need to get your car tuned. What i sent you was only a startup map, it scares me to see you posting full-throttle videos racing around.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

No boosting till you're tuned!!! The above was just to get you driving safely around town. It won't help you (or save you) under boost at all.

EDIT: Just saw some of your other threads. Keeping boost low doesn't guarantee safe operation on an untuned map. Take care.

SnyperZ

iTrader: (10)

Well, if it blows up now its just an excuse to build it faster. =P In all seriousness though..its very hard to actually get time to find someone who can tune the car and actually get an appointment. I work 70+ a week and just dont have the time.

thawk408

iTrader: (16)

boom

z33boi

iTrader: (21)

better make time...or you could just ship the car to injected for a tune.