ProEFI Release Date and Pricing!
04-27-2008, 07:43 AM
#241
Registered User
Volumetric Efficiency table (Fuel mapping) - Adaptive Learning in the V.E. table keeps the Air/Fuel ratios dialed in under all weather conditions. This means that the need for constantly “tweaking” your tune up at different times of the year is a thing of the past. Like the O.E.M. ECU, the ProEFI ECU now performs this task automatically based upon targets the tuner enters.
04-27-2008, 07:44 AM
#242
Registered User
Boost Control - At a given valve opening, changing temperatures will result in changing boost pressures. To prevent cold temperature over boosting, closed loop systems are typically used. The turbo’s response from the waste gate opening and closing is very dynamic, and the closed loop systems can cause undesirable fluctuations in manifold pressure in trying to trim out any error against the target pressure. The cure for this is to eliminate as much error as possible, leaving very little for the closed loop system to correct for. The ProEFI ECU is constantly adapting these errors into the base table settings, keeping your boost targets dialed in regardless of outside temperature changes.
04-27-2008, 07:44 AM
#243
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Knock Control - The O.E.M.’s know that the quality of fuel a consumer puts in their vehicle can vary with seasons, and even day to day. To obtain the level of power that the O.E.M.’s are achieving in stock form they have to be fairly aggressive with compression ratio’s to get fuel efficiency and power levels up. Ignition timing becomes critical in making power and being able to prevent engine damage under varying fuel qualities. The O.E.M.’s use knock control to prevent engine damage and to trim the ignition tables to prevent further detonation. This is probably the most complex strategy incorporated by the ECU. The knock control system is constantly testing the knock threshold by adding timing little by little and “listening” to the knock sensor to determine what the optimal timing is for the fuel being used. The system then takes these values and puts them in trim tables and adapts to the changing octane requirements. ProEFI incorporates this strategy as well. While some aftermarket ECU’s knock control system is really only noise control. These systems look at a knock sensor
04-27-2008, 07:45 AM
#244
Registered User
There are several ways to approach Knock control. Some manufacturers use more of a noise control than a kncck control system. These systems use the knock sensor with a non specific band pass filter to filter out some back ground frequencies. Then a user defined table is used to limit the amount of “noise” before it is considered to be knock. Once this threshold is reached action is taken by pulling timing and adding fuel in attempt to limit the noise. There are several problems with these types of systems. As the engine is producing more power, it also produces more noise, so if the noise isn’t really knock, then power is greatly reduced for no reason. Using a broad band pass filter, you can’t determine the frequency that knock actually occurs in the engine being monitored. Also by looking at the “noise” level, you don’t know which cylinder is actually responsible for know. It then gets even more complicated because you can’t determine the window in which knock will occur in each cylinder. The systems that are monitoring noise rather than knock also lack the processing speed to properly determine what knock really is.
04-27-2008, 07:46 AM
#245
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The term “knock” refers to the spontaneous combustion of in-cylinder end gases (un-burnt premixed fuel and air in front of the flame front) that occurs independent of the combustion associated with the spark initiated flame front traveling through the cylinder. This spontaneous combustion is a function of temperature, pressure, and time – that is, if the temperature and pressure of the end gases reach the self-ignition threshold before the flame front has had time to propagate to the cylinder walls, knock will occur. The effect of this spontaneous combustion creates shock waves and thermal explosions throughout the cylinder, attributes that both audibly and physically affect the consumer and engine, respectively.
04-27-2008, 07:46 AM
#246
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Various steps can be taken to decrease an engines tendency to knock. Increased burn rates will allow less time for the end gases to heat up and ignite before combustion is completed. Therefore any agent that improves mixing, such as swirl and tumble, will also improve the knock characteristics. Colder charge and block temperatures will guarantee more time for the end gases to reach there self-ignition temperature threshold, thus giving the flame front more time to reach the end gases before knock occurs. Higher octane fuels have a similar effect on the end gases, by raising the activation energy required to self-ignite. Rich mixtures burn faster than lean, and heat the cylinder up less for each consecutive combustion event. Spark retard shifts peak pressure of the combustion event away from TDC, thus avoiding the dramatic rise in cylinder pressure (and temperature) when the two are in close proximity relative to crank angle. (It should be noted here that fuel is typically used to cool exhaust gas temperatures (EGTs) when significant spark retard is used to for knock control, and does not have a substantial affect on knock control.) Some of the steps listed above must be addressed in the base engine design, but some can be utilized in an active cylinder-by-cylinder, cycle-by-cycle knock controller to effectively reduce knock only in operating conditions where knock is present, thus retaining the majority of the engines potential power whenever possible.
04-27-2008, 07:47 AM
#247
Registered User
The calibration process for the knock controller involves four basic steps. These steps are sequential, and described in Figure 2.0. Location refers to determining the location of the knock accelerometers on the engine that captures the largest knocking energy relative to non-knocking energy. Once chosen, a band pass Filter must be selected that isolates the knock frequencies from the full spectrum to maximize signal to noise ratio of the knock signal. Next Windows are selected relative to crank angle to direct the controller which portion of the knock signal to use for calculating cycle-by-cycle knock intensity. Finally, a Threshold is chosen to define a knock intensity level above which the engine is considered to be knocking.
04-27-2008, 07:54 AM
#248
Registered User
I personally know of 6 Z'2/G's that are running on the ProEFI without any issues at all.
The supra community as taken this EMS with open arms, and there are numerous satisfied customers running this engine management. From what I here, SP has a butt load of Supra's in-line for this EMS, and he currently has a Z there getting built and will be installing this EMS on it, with a few more in-line.
I will see if Jason can post something on here (Like a Q & A), but I don't think he would want to violate any forum rules by not being a sponsor. If Jason says he can post, I will ask the Admins for permission before doing so.
Once again, there is a ProEFI forum that Jason looks at everyday, and if you have questions about ANYTHING, you can ask them there.
The supra community as taken this EMS with open arms, and there are numerous satisfied customers running this engine management. From what I here, SP has a butt load of Supra's in-line for this EMS, and he currently has a Z there getting built and will be installing this EMS on it, with a few more in-line.
I will see if Jason can post something on here (Like a Q & A), but I don't think he would want to violate any forum rules by not being a sponsor. If Jason says he can post, I will ask the Admins for permission before doing so.
Once again, there is a ProEFI forum that Jason looks at everyday, and if you have questions about ANYTHING, you can ask them there.
04-27-2008, 08:15 AM
#249
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Originally Posted by Julian@MRC
I think alot of people are under that impression also...
From what they keep making it sound, you will eliminate the "tuner" in the whole process and rely on the electronics to do the tuning for you.However i do not think this is the case..I think there has been a little bit of PRE-RELEASE HYPE and a bit of smoke and mirrors if you ask me, which has lead people to draw the wrong conclusions...
IMHO that is complete bull$hit to do..
I can not understand why Jason himself has not come on here and clarified the performance of the different models and what they can do "exactly". I personally think that would be the responsible approach if you ask me, and set all the "i heard it does this" and " I heard it does that" 's straight.....
I would not regret my Haltech purchase as of yet if I were you...An Fcon or Haltech can do wonders in the right hands.
once properly tuned. As of now there is real life support for both Haltech and Fcon, and both have been used and proven for quite some time now..
As of now the PRO-EFI is VAPORWARE as far as I am concearned, and anyone who has purchased one is a BETA tester in My opinion..I would hope they are being GREATLY compensated for their efforts and the risks they are taking as BETA testers..
What makes me the most angry, is all the improper HYPE and useless threads on this unit without the proper answers from the proper sources..
Because as of now all you have, are one or two monopolizing"MAJOR DISTRIBUTERS" with an obvious vested interest in the unit's sales, creating release date and pricing threads that have gone on for several months, with no clear cut results and release dates and or pricing and availability..
From what they keep making it sound, you will eliminate the "tuner" in the whole process and rely on the electronics to do the tuning for you.However i do not think this is the case..I think there has been a little bit of PRE-RELEASE HYPE and a bit of smoke and mirrors if you ask me, which has lead people to draw the wrong conclusions...IMHO that is complete bull$hit to do..
I can not understand why Jason himself has not come on here and clarified the performance of the different models and what they can do "exactly". I personally think that would be the responsible approach if you ask me, and set all the "i heard it does this" and " I heard it does that" 's straight.....
I would not regret my Haltech purchase as of yet if I were you...An Fcon or Haltech can do wonders in the right hands.
once properly tuned. As of now there is real life support for both Haltech and Fcon, and both have been used and proven for quite some time now..As of now the PRO-EFI is VAPORWARE as far as I am concearned, and anyone who has purchased one is a BETA tester in My opinion..I would hope they are being GREATLY compensated for their efforts and the risks they are taking as BETA testers..
What makes me the most angry, is all the improper HYPE and useless threads on this unit without the proper answers from the proper sources..
Because as of now all you have, are one or two monopolizing"MAJOR DISTRIBUTERS" with an obvious vested interest in the unit's sales, creating release date and pricing threads that have gone on for several months, with no clear cut results and release dates and or pricing and availability..
Vapor ware? If they are in "Beta Mode" as you say... I am EXTREMELY impressed! There are at least a dozen people out there making posts about how bug free and perfect there cars run...just like a stock ECU.
As for the automatic tuning, and not having the need for a dealer.. I have NEVER seen that posted. EVERYTHING posted on this unit strictly expresses the car needs tuned and set up FIRST. Then the adaptive learning takes over, and won't need to be messed with any more than your stock car will need retuning. Which is unlike any other ecu out there.
Why don't you call up ProEFI and get one in your hands and try it before speaking about something you don't know? I don't see anywhere that it was stated it was going to take TurboTrix a week to tune the car, he said they would have it for a week. Any good tuner is going to want to make sure that cold starts are perfect, and that takes ALOT of cool down time. That just means they are competant, not to mention I doubt his car will be the only one at the shop that needs work done.
Last edited by 1ZweetZ; 04-27-2008 at 08:27 AM.
04-27-2008, 09:07 AM
#251
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Originally Posted by Julian@MRC
I would not regret my Haltech purchase as of yet if I were you...An Fcon or Haltech can do wonders in the right hands. once properly tuned. As of now there is real life support for both Haltech and Fcon, and both have been used and proven for quite some time now..
What makes me the most angry, is all the improper HYPE and useless threads on this unit without the proper answers from the proper sources..
Because as of now all you have, are one or two monopolizing"MAJOR DISTRIBUTERS" with an obvious vested interest in the unit's sales, creating release date and pricing threads that have gone on for several months, with no clear cut results and release dates and or pricing and availability..
once properly tuned. As of now there is real life support for both Haltech and Fcon, and both have been used and proven for quite some time now..What makes me the most angry, is all the improper HYPE and useless threads on this unit without the proper answers from the proper sources..
Because as of now all you have, are one or two monopolizing"MAJOR DISTRIBUTERS" with an obvious vested interest in the unit's sales, creating release date and pricing threads that have gone on for several months, with no clear cut results and release dates and or pricing and availability..
As for "Major Distributors" near as I can tell...there aren't any. According to their website ( www.proefi.com ), they ONLY have dealers. I am guessing that the dealers job is to make money... I don't know of any shops doing this stuff as charity work.
What makes me "Angry" is that people like you are on the forums giving bad information just because you don't want to take the time to read what is already out there.
04-27-2008, 10:16 AM
#252
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Originally Posted by 1ZweetZ
The Haltech Platnum is a BRAN NEW ecu, by comparison the ProEFI is the elder on the block of these ecu's. THey are using O.E. production ecu's that have been in Millions of vehicles world wide since 2000. Not to mention it is the Fastest ECU of the bunch, by far at 56mhz.
As for "Major Distributors" near as I can tell...there aren't any. According to their website ( www.proefi.com ), they ONLY have dealers. I am guessing that the dealers job is to make money... I don't know of any shops doing this stuff as charity work.
What makes me "Angry" is that people like you are on the forums giving bad information just because you don't want to take the time to read what is already out there.
As for "Major Distributors" near as I can tell...there aren't any. According to their website ( www.proefi.com ), they ONLY have dealers. I am guessing that the dealers job is to make money... I don't know of any shops doing this stuff as charity work.
What makes me "Angry" is that people like you are on the forums giving bad information just because you don't want to take the time to read what is already out there.
To 2quicksilver2, Are you officially affiliated with SP? Do you own a PROEFI? I know that you try to help answer people's questions on this thread, it would help to know how you come by your information. Is it pure research from other forums? Please understand I am not flaming anyone, I just like to understand where your coming from.
Last edited by BrazenZ; 04-27-2008 at 10:28 AM.
04-27-2008, 11:14 AM
#253
Registered User
I can assure you... none of us three (as you claim), are affiliated with SP or ProEFI.
(We are in Arizona, Sp is in Chicago!!)
I do not have a ProEFI on my vehcile, but I plan on it. My feedback comes from, the results I have seen psersonally, and the information I have reed on other forums.
I have seen this product first hand and have seen the capabilites of this EMS. I hope SP (Who is the creator of this thread), can come in and chime in on this setup. They post avidly on supraforums about this product on there, and the customer feedback speaks for itself.
I would never try to change someones mind from going Haltech or F-Con. I think they are great products, and would hesitate to put one on my car if the oppurtunity arrised. Although, after comparing them all, I feel ProEFI has the upper hand, IMO.
(We are in Arizona, Sp is in Chicago!!)
I do not have a ProEFI on my vehcile, but I plan on it. My feedback comes from, the results I have seen psersonally, and the information I have reed on other forums.
I have seen this product first hand and have seen the capabilites of this EMS. I hope SP (Who is the creator of this thread), can come in and chime in on this setup. They post avidly on supraforums about this product on there, and the customer feedback speaks for itself.
I would never try to change someones mind from going Haltech or F-Con. I think they are great products, and would hesitate to put one on my car if the oppurtunity arrised. Although, after comparing them all, I feel ProEFI has the upper hand, IMO.
04-27-2008, 11:41 AM
#254
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Originally Posted by BrazenZ
To 2quicksilver2, Are you officially affiliated with SP? Do you own a PROEFI? I know that you try to help answer people's questions on this thread, it would help to know how you come by your information. Is it pure research from other forums? Please understand I am not flaming anyone, I just like to understand where your coming from.
your best place to look for information is www.proefi.com
thanks
04-27-2008, 01:57 PM
#255
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Originally Posted by BrazenZ
I hope the PROEFI is everything that you claim 1ZweetZ if so I will purchase one soon , but I am waiting (like many others ) for some independent verification. You, Slidefox and 2quicksilver2 and a few others keep talking this ems up and I have noticed that you all state your location as Arizona, I can't help but think you may have some affiliation with SP. If this is purely coincidental then I apologize in advance.
To 2quicksilver2, Are you officially affiliated with SP? Do you own a PROEFI? I know that you try to help answer people's questions on this thread, it would help to know how you come by your information. Is it pure research from other forums? Please understand I am not flaming anyone, I just like to understand where your coming from.
To 2quicksilver2, Are you officially affiliated with SP? Do you own a PROEFI? I know that you try to help answer people's questions on this thread, it would help to know how you come by your information. Is it pure research from other forums? Please understand I am not flaming anyone, I just like to understand where your coming from.
04-27-2008, 03:25 PM
#256
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Originally Posted by SlideFox
I personally know of 6 Z'2/G's that are running on the ProEFI without any issues at all.
The supra community as taken this EMS with open arms, and there are numerous satisfied customers running this engine management. From what I here, SP has a butt load of Supra's in-line for this EMS, and he currently has a Z there getting built and will be installing this EMS on it, with a few more in-line.
I will see if Jason can post something on here (Like a Q & A), but I don't think he would want to violate any forum rules by not being a sponsor. If Jason says he can post, I will ask the Admins for permission before doing so.
Once again, there is a ProEFI forum that Jason looks at everyday, and if you have questions about ANYTHING, you can ask them there.
The supra community as taken this EMS with open arms, and there are numerous satisfied customers running this engine management. From what I here, SP has a butt load of Supra's in-line for this EMS, and he currently has a Z there getting built and will be installing this EMS on it, with a few more in-line.
I will see if Jason can post something on here (Like a Q & A), but I don't think he would want to violate any forum rules by not being a sponsor. If Jason says he can post, I will ask the Admins for permission before doing so.
Once again, there is a ProEFI forum that Jason looks at everyday, and if you have questions about ANYTHING, you can ask them there.
04-27-2008, 03:31 PM
#257
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Originally Posted by 1ZweetZ
What makes me "Angry" is that people like you are on the forums giving bad information just because you don't want to take the time to read what is already out there.
04-27-2008, 03:32 PM
#258
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Originally Posted by 1ZweetZ
I wish I could afford a turbo kit right now...unfortunately I can't. I have driven in a car with a ProEFI, and I was VERY impressed. I have been in several Z's with various states of tune (Utec, Turbonetics, etc...) The ProEFI is the ONLY one I would consider at this time...and I am VERY picky!
04-27-2008, 03:41 PM
#259
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Originally Posted by 1ZweetZ
Vapor ware? If they are in "Beta Mode" as you say... I am EXTREMELY impressed! There are at least a dozen people out there making posts about how bug free and perfect there cars run...just like a stock ECU.
Originally Posted by 1ZweetZ
As for the automatic tuning, and not having the need for a dealer.. I have NEVER seen that posted. EVERYTHING posted on this unit strictly expresses the car needs tuned and set up FIRST. Then the adaptive learning takes over, and won't need to be messed with any more than your stock car will need retuning. Which is unlike any other ecu out there.
Originally Posted by 1ZweetZ
Why don't you call up ProEFI and get one in your hands and try it before speaking about something you don't know?
Originally Posted by 1ZweetZ
I don't see anywhere that it was stated it was going to take TurboTrix a week to tune the car, he said they would have it for a week.
Originally Posted by 1ZweetZ
Any good tuner is going to want to make sure that cold starts are perfect, and that takes ALOT of cool down time. That just means they are competant, not to mention I doubt his car will be the only one at the shop that needs work done.
Last edited by Julian@MRC; 04-27-2008 at 03:57 PM.
04-27-2008, 03:42 PM
#260
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Originally Posted by Julian@MRC
How am I spreading bad information? Please explain? Also From what we gathered, there will be 2 different units available, and when everyone has been quoting the features, it seems to be on the 128 pin one, not the 48 pin one...Can you take the time to explain the differences and which are available for purchase at this time?