JuanGarzaro

I threw a bearing and currently have my engine out of the car. I want to go for an NA power build for now I currently have MotorDyne Art Pipes, Tomei Exhaust, ISR Y Pipe, 255 LP Fuel Pump, 550cc Injectors, Plenum Spacer, 75mm Throttle Body, Headers and an AdminTuning 3.5 Intake. I want to build up the inside of the engine as such I am also getting Eagle Rods, Wiseco Forged Pistons, a Rev-Up Oil Pump upgrade and ACL Engine Bearings. However when taking the cams into account and after I did try to search up a little about it I don’t understand duration or lift too much so I was wondering if anyone could help me figure out how aggressive I could go with cams and still stay safe because I hear too much lift or duration one or the other can cause contact against something inside the block? Any intuition you may have will help greatly please and will I have to change my valve springs depending what duration and lift the cams have?

fflipski

The de only have intake vvt. And they only have 35-40deg of advance depending on who you ask.
Aggressive cams will raise your idle a lot so if this is a street car. Stay with mild cams and maybe some oversize valves.

Tomei cams seems the most preferred. But you can go with any vendors but choose a good builder. If diy, stay with retail cams.

JuanGarzaro

These are the specs since you said about the unstable idle these keep the idle pretty stable Camshaft Specifications:

• VQ35DE Non-Revup - (TA301A-NS04A)
  • Duration - 258°
  • Intake Lift - 10.20mm
  • Exhaust Lift - 10.20mm
• VQ35DE Revup - (TA301A-NS04D)
  • Duration - 266°
  • Intake Lift - 10.80mm
  • Exhaust Lift - 10.80mm

And there is no modification necessary for valve springs or anything I think they are drop in so would these be ok? Or if I were to get the Tomei Cams with 274 Duration and upgrade the valve springs you thing everything would be fine?VQ35DE Non-Revup

• Option A - (TA301A-NS04C)
  • Duration - 274°
  • Intake Lift - 11.30mm
  • Exhaust Lift - 11.00mm

Installation Note:Upgrading the valve springs is required when using camshafts with cam lift greater than 11.0mm (not included.) When using camshafts with cam lift greater than 11.0mm on the intake side there is a chance that the valves can come into contact with the piston when the eVTC advances the timing. In this case it is highly recommended to recess the pistons to guarantee adequate clearance. That’s the only thing I found here so if I do get the 274’s and upgrade the valve springs I should be fine with clearance right?

itsLeon

Unstable idle is not so much caused by longer duration or lift but by lobe separation angle (LSA), If you LSA goes down the engine will create less vacuum causing rough idle.
Do you want the car to still be drivable on the public road?

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

You can build a DE and have the best components but unfortunately you will only get minimal gains - I speculate around a 10hp to 15hp gain with the modifications you are proposing and after a tune. OEM Nissan did a pretty good job squeezing out as much NA power out of this engine as possilbe.

What are your NA power goals once all your engine work is complete and the car is tuned?

I would suggest if you want more power, look into a turbo or supercharger - a turbo or supercharge, pushing 8 to 10psi will make 400hp. If you have a mild build and the engine can take 500hp to 600hp which can be had with 15 to 20psi of boost.

JuanGarzaro

Ahh ok and yeah i would like to still be able to take this car out on public roads.

JuanGarzaro

As far as power goals go I’d be happy pushing above 300 but like you said eventually I do want to go turbo but I’m 20 and trying to go to school and managing work so I’m not able to go full out with a turbo kit just yet but that is the end game plan! And I’ll also be planning to go E-85 as well. But do you know if what I said above would be safe about upgrading the valve springs and then going with the 274 Duration cams would that be safe I don’t want them hitting the valves I read somewhere that happened when you have aftermarket cams and the spacing isn’t right on the valves

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

300hp is essentially impossible on the DE without tens-of-thousands of dollars spent on modifications … it just isn't feasible with the platform in an naturally-aspirated form ... you could spend $3k to $5k and maybe hit 280hp.

The good news is you can put a simple and basic turbo kit on this car and make 400hp to 425hp and maintain most of the OEM reliability and drivability for around that same $5k on essentially a stock / OEM engine (minimal bolt-ons). Don't even bother messing with the heads … the OEM heads will flow 600+ hp … you're just wasting money at this point.

This is just the old man James speaking … you're 20years old, you're in college, balancing a job/career, a social life, a car life, and everything else you do...just keep the car 100% stock / how it is … between now and the time you graduate keep current on this forum and learn as much as you can. Get out of school, get all your debts paid off, get a living situation with a garage, get your full-time job, and save-up the $5k you need to turbo the car...get to that point and go bananas with the build. By that time you'll know the characteristics and limits of the car, you'll have a garage to work in and store the car, and you'll have the cash to blow on the car. It may be wise to get a daily driver / daily beater too … my daily beater was a 1988 chevy 1500 4wd … looked like hell but had 4wd and killed it in Colorado's shitty weather and could haul anything but ***.

itsLeon

Lets start making things clear are we talking about HP (crank) or rwhp (wheels)? I guess rwhp.
The OP allready has all 'outside' modifications done to his car (improve intake and exhaust) and now he wants to improve the 'inside' so he can reach 300 (rw)hp?
If the OP chooses tomei cams (272 duration) and go a little soft on compression pistons (11:1) he will always have the option to go for a SC without needing to rebuild the engine and while come very close to his goal of 300 (rw)hp?

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

Im not sure why it is but most (if not all) of America, especially when talking aftermarket performance, refers to horsepower in wheel horsepower, or horsepower measured on a dyno. which in and of itself offer error - both intentional (as you can mess with the correction factors and machine setup) and unintentional, as no two dynos will measure the same power consistently …

outside modifications? an OEM plenum with a spacer with a cold air intake and a bigger TB? and some aftermarket / mass produced exhaust components? This will not suffice for more than 250 to 260hp.

No, the DE cannot reach 300whp - it's not capable for any reasonable amount of money and a reasonable amount of reliability … everyone will say 'oh but Sasha did it with his car' … and yes, quite more than 300hp but he is running (I believe) a 4.2liter stroker kit, using ITB, on an HR platform (intake and exhaust VTC), with 14:1 compression, spinning the engine well into the 9k rpm range (someone fact check me?), with a very very custom intake/heads/valve/etc, with all custom components and the engine is modified to within an inch of its life … furthermore he owns a tuning company and has hours upon hours of dyno time squeezing every ounce of power out of the engine.

so a college student, with (assuming) limited funds, limited time, and limited resource is not going to be able to pull 300hp out of the DE engine. Furthermore, we know this because no one (past the college years, with ample incomes, blow money, resource, time) has done this … we will see built/cam'd blocks capable of spinning well into 7k to 8k rpm range only make 280hp.

Cams are one thing but you need to spin the engine well past the 6600rpm redline to achieve a big HP number … which means upgraded bearings, upgraded girdle (a known weak point on the DE), rods that can take that much abuse, pistons / piston pins that can hold it all-together at 9k RPM, the whole valve train needs to be upgraded, you need a billet oil pump capable of providing oil at that rate.

It's not throw in a set of aftermarket cams and call it a day...if it was, you'd see everyone doing it.

and don't forget tuning and dyno time

itsLeon

After reading this topic multiple times we are talking about whp. And yes I agree america part that makes it very confusing.
The bigger intake and large throttle body has proven to increase the whp by 16-20 given that their stock car produced ~250 who increasing that to a max of 270whp.

If you read one of the earlier articles from sasha you can see that he reached 272whp without touching any internal parts and by switching to jwt cams he reached 292whp.
He later switched to non street cams (300 duration) and reached 326whp (this was on his first DE engine)
http://www.superstreetonline.com/how...e-engine-build

​​​​​So in conclusion it can be possible to get near that 300 number. I also think multiple people on this forum have past that number with an NA build.

And please correct me if I'm wrong

DarkZ03

iTrader: (11)

All facts considered, Sasha did pass 300 on a DE but it's with ITBs, not a chance in hell to get there without them to my knowledge. If I'm wrong please show me a dyno of a car doing it without ITBs.

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

But tell the whole story …
272hp with custom long tube headers (and you know those were very specific to his setup) and larger intake manifold and likely hours upon hours of tuning. I doubt he was using Uprev, I think he uses Motec. Does it say what fuel he is using (may be moot as the VQ NA is MBT limited).

so if you are Sasha, with a near-unlimted budget, and some goodies on the car you can make 272whp …

but everyone within the sound of my voice - by all means, go down this route but don't be surprised when you fall 30hp short of 300 and you've spent thousands of dollars on the setup when you could have just turbo'd it and been done with it!

Kwame

iTrader: (78)

Generally speaking you are right in that it isn't cheap to obtain 300whp on the DE. I can't say how much it will cost in today's dollars as Adam achieved this with his build back in 2007.

https://my350z.com/forum/na-builds/2...p-to-nuts.html

JuanGarzaro

As for everyone saying to save the money and to turbo thank you for the consideration but I plan to turbo it in the future I want to stay NA for now, now if I could just get this last question, the cams have 274 Duration and the lift is 11.0 11.3 If I upgrade the valve springs will that be enough for installation to go smoothly as far as clearance goes so nothing is hitting ?

DarkZ03

iTrader: (11)

Springs won't do anything for clearance, it's a tuning and physical thing. I'll present you with this question because I'm currently facing it as well...why cams if you plan to do FI? You don't need them unless going for max HP numbers, 274s will have a lope at idle too I believe. Unless you are building an engine that money is best spent elsewhere. If you say you want a little more power for the meantime, a LSD and FD will do SO much more than cams will.

JuanGarzaro

My very first post on this thread listed everything I have planned to do to the car I am upgrading internals I’m not just slapping on cams out of the blue, and what’s wrong with doing cams if eventually I will be going FI which won’t be til years to come I want to keep my car NA for now and that lope is fine I don’t mind the noise I think it sounds rather nice. I already ordered all the parts for the car eventually when I get everything tuned and done I will be coming back and posting the dyno graph just to satiate the curiosity.

DarkZ03

iTrader: (11)

I didn't say there was anything wrong with, they just aren't NEEDED for FI. Yeah, I forgot you are building and engine, still don't see a point, maybe 264s if you must. Just make sure your CR is low enough for boost, specially if going turbo. It won't be anything worth writing home about anyway, we have the VAST info that came from Sasha, there is no hidden info as far as NA goes.