Resolute

iTrader: (2)

That's true, and I also said that HTHS is a function of viscosity at 150 deg C. Therefore, heavier grades of oil will typically have relatively higher HTHS scores than lighter grades of oil. If all you wanted was the highest HTHS number available in an oil, then find the heaviest grade you can. There are a number of 60 and 70 weight options for you if you really want, all with very high HTHS numbers.

Of course, nissan recommends a 40 weight as the heaviest grade to use, so I don't recommend anything higher than that, but it's your engine. And if it's built, then Nissan's recommendations might not be very applicable to you.

Be that as it may, I highly doubt that you are doing anything with your car which requires an extreme HTHS score be priority over the other factors to consider when choosing an oil.

If you track your car, are FI, etc... then find some oils with good UOA results from similar engines and go from there. The HTHS score is useful for you as a consideration that would not normally be a factor for most daily driven stock engines (unless they were really concerned about fuel economy). So, if you find two oils that have good UOA results for FI engines similar to yours, then the HTHS is a good way to split the difference between which to use, but not the primary factor for you to choose an oil.

As an example, PP 10W-30 and GC 0W-30 are both very good oils with lots of excellent UOA results. For the daily driven VQ with stock block, it wouldn't make a real difference which one people wanted to use. Whichever they find cheaper or personally like more would be the deciding factor between the two. However, if the person tracked their car a lot, or had FI on their engine, then the higher HTHS of the GC 0W-30 is worth considering and makes it the better oil to use between the two. It's a thicker oil, so it has a higher HTHS score, and will prabably hold up to the high temps and high stress of track use and turbo center bearings better than the PP 10W-30 would. So, HTHS is important for the FI crowd to consider, with higher numbers being in your favor, but only between reputable oils with good wear results- not as an independent factor.

Will

coachk

iTrader: (21)

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic in your first paragraph about using a 60 or 70 weight because it has higher HTHS #'s.
I have a built motor w/ TT and N20 and will be drag racing alot towards the end of the year so I was just trying to figure out which oil will work best.
I will go with Quadcams recommendation and use the Rotella unless you have a better recommendation. My car is not a daily driver

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Then plan on getting a UOA, so you'll know if it's working well for you. To find the "best" oil for your needs might be a lot of trial and error, so plan on several UOA's. If you've been paying attention, then you've seen that high HTHS means high viscosity. That means high drag and high parasitic losses. Not the best for a guy who drags. At least not competitively. The best oil for you, as I've said in the first page of this sticky, is the lightest weight you can use while still maintaining good protection. There are a number of high HTHS oils you can try, but don't be afraid to give some good 30 weight oils a shot. Compare your UOA results and you'll see if one of your choices turns out to be the "best" for your needs.

That's a good place to start.

Will

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

I have my results back form Blackstone using the Rotella T-Syn 5W-40.

The oil was in the car for just over a year, and for 6k miles. No track days o this sample. I drove it hard, and it sat for long periods of time in-between. I drove for a good mix of city and highway driving, with lots of short trips of less than 5 minutes.

The oil looks good. It's in grade, low wear, and a good TBN. I could have kept this oil in longer for sure, but I was eager to try something else.

I burned through 3/4 quart with this oil by the time I changed it. I also could tell it was a thicker weight oil than usual. The engine did not seem to rev as quick unless the oil was good and hot first, compared to the 30 weights I've used and even the M1 0W-40. The best thing I noticed about this oil was the lack of any timing chain rattle. The normal start-up rattle was drastically reduced with the T-Syn versus the last round of M1 I had in there. Good old ZDDP I would imagine is the reason.



I also have updated the comparison charts with all of the new and current blends that have been tested, and made a few new Q&A posts to update the first page, but it seems I'm not allowed to edit my posts now. So, I'll PM a mod and see what's up.

Will

Nederlander75

Looks really good. FWIW the HTHS number floating around BITOG is 3.9.

Interestingly my Spped6 revs quicker on the Rotella Syn versus GC. Still have GC in the Alti SE-R and will run it 7 before taking it out.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

The RTS only seemed "sluggish" when it wasn't up to full temp. After really working the engine and getting it good and hot, and the oil psi down, then it felt the same as any other engine oil I've used.

Viscosity calculators are never right-on. Not even close in most cases. I would have guessed the actual number for RTS to be 4.2 HTHS, though. Just based on the fact that the calculator I used is usually 3-4 points higher than what the actual reported HTHS is. But who knows. Maybe someone will call SOPUS and just ask.

I'm using PP 5W-30 now. Will go for a normal 3k miles and change it.

I've PM'd Nitrouz about updating the UOA comparison charts, we'll see what can be done. Sucks to let this thread go to waste because of he new edit rules.

Will

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

****First Page Updated- New Comparison Charts and Questions Added****

The new comparison charts are now up, courtesy of Dave079. They ahve the old formulas o some oils removed, and the new formulas up. Some will notice the RP samples look better than they used to. RP has a new formula of 5W-30, and the old UOA's of RP were thrown out and the new one posted. Eneos and Rotella T-Syn have also been added, and the M1 formulas used have been updated.

Also, two new questions have been posetd about oil filter selection and drain interval.

Will
edit: also, the comparison charts now show the number of oil samples for each average result

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

CoachK, Resolute,

I am considering Mobile 1 15W-50 for the summer for my built engine+TT. Here is the product data sheet. I will perform a UOA this fall when I change to a lighter weight oil, perhaps 0W-40. One of the considerations for me is that the heavier weight oils tend not to leak from turbo seals so a 50 weight oil is what I am looking for. I was running Motul 300V 15W-50 but after seeing some of the results here, I was going to change (I left a oil cooler clamp loose and my 300V went all over the garage floor in the 5 seconds it took me to realize it - not sure I can do a UOA with 500 miles only?).

Here is the product specs for the Mobile 1 15W-50 (this is the silver cap version, not the extended performance gold cap, which I have read is suboptimal):

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...il1_15W-50.asp

Typical Properties

Mobil 1 15W-50

SAE Grade 15W-50
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40º C 131.2
cSt @ 100º C 18.1
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 154
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.21
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC ASTM D 4683 4.50
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -39
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 235
Density @15º C kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.87

Nederlander75

Id think that unless you have also mod'd your internals, ie larger oil galleys, there may be oil starvation at least when cold. Maybe not. Maybe find a good 10wt like the Castrol 10w60 or 5w50, unless you can find M1. My exp and $0.02.

redline350ZZ

iTrader: (1)

I need a heavier oil too I think. I am running Mobil 0w-40 and have a small turbo seal leak. Is Mobil 15W-50 a good choice?

QuadCam

iTrader: (8)

I know I am neither Coach K or Resolute, but you might want to look into the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Oil. It is a 5W40, and if you are an M1 fan...it would probably be a great choice for you. I was thinking of trying it, but I have had good fortune with the Rotella T-Syn 5W40 so Iam not switching.

here's the info on the M1 TDT oil:

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...ruck_5W-40.asp

Nederlander75

Or if you are wanting a thicker starting point on stock internals maybe look at the M1 HM 10w40.

redline350ZZ

iTrader: (1)

Is Mobil 1 15W-50 not a proper step up from Mobil 1 0W-40 for a built motor?

SteveZ

iTrader: (3)

I've not done a UOA, but have been using M1 5W-30 for 4 years and 48k miles, never have to add any oil between ~4-5k mile changes, don't have start-up "rattle", and it flows particularly well in the severe Winter temps I see here. There are cold dry days where the temps range -5 to 10 F esp in January and the car starts smoothly, no timing chain noise.

I used M1 10W-40 in my smaller motors (SR20DE, KA24DE) and I did get timing chain noise on start-up and a little upper end noise until warm. I switched to a 5W-30 and it went away. For simplicity I run the same oil in all 3 all four seasons, and with 137k miles on the SR20DE, 128k miles on the KA24DE, neither burns measurable amounts between changes. My driving is similar to your desc but add AutoX and occasional track days, and none of the cars sit for any significant length of time.

In most simple terms, why are you a fan of Rotella T-Syn 5W-40 when you have to add 3/4 QT between changes and in your own terms, "The engine did not seem to rev as quick unless the oil was good and hot first"? Half the year my engine takes a good long time to get "good and hot", I couldn't put up with that.

My scan of 20+ pages seems to indicate you're not so much a of M1 fan. If so, why? The UOA's look pretty good for 5W-30 M1, although you've probably already pointed out somewhere that a sample size in the single digits (<5-10 samples max) is invalid statistically w/re to being transferable to anyone else.

Great info, sparks my interest in obtaining a UOA for my VQ, as you may have guessed, I tend to hold onto my Nissans for awhile

QuadCam

iTrader: (8)

The Zddp additive package in Rotella is great for solid lifter engines. MOst engine builders of domestic engines usign a flat tappet cam/lifter recommend oils with ZDDP. there is alot more friction on a flat tappet/ bucket compared to a roller lifter / cam follower...that's where the zddp additive really helps.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

If looking at spec sheets alone was enough to see which oil will work the best for your needs, then there would be no use for UOA's and every oil would be made the same. That is to say, that there is no way to be sure if the M1 15W-50 will be a good choice for you unless you try it.

The specs of this oil simply show it's a 50 weight oil and has a HTHS score in line with a 50 weight oil. The flash point, ash, and pour point all look good, and the MSDS shows the CAS number of a primarily PAO base stock oil, and judging by the aniline point and VI, it's pretty easy to see which SpectraSyn they're using.

It's a well formulated oil with a good name and good history of use behind it, and I wouldn't worry about using it for your application. I couldn't tell you if it's going to be better or worse than another 50 weight oil for your needs, though. A UOA comparison from your engine would be helpful for that.

I will say that QuadCam's recommendation of the M1 TDT 5W-40 is a good call, and that I would try it before using the 15W-50 just because the grade is more suited to what Nissan intended.

Will

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

"Step up" in what regards? I you're looking for an oil that offers more protection (i.e. less wear) than what you're getting with M1 0W-40, then you'll need to try another oil and compare your UOA results. Speculating on which oil will result in less wear is not the point of this thread and is little more than a guessing game. If you have a built engine and running FI, then it becomes even worse to try and guess which option will suit your needs best. M1 0W-40 is a good oil with good UOA results, better than any of the other M1 grades that have been tried. If you want to step up to the next highest grade, then the M1 TDT 5W-40 would be it. No one can tell you if it will be a step up in engine protection for you, though, or if it will be a step up in terms of oil loss in your engine.

Will

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Great. Subjective measures alone don't count for a whole lot, though. You could copy everything you've said but replace "M1 5W-30" with a whole slew of other oils that people prefer (PP 5W-30, Castrol 5W-30, QS 5W-30, etc..), and find such testimonies all over the internet. I can also find plenty that discuss how M1 5W-30 made their engine noisy and burnt off faster than any other oil they've used. This thread is not about collecting experiences of which oils people have used, or how or why they liked it. It's just for collecting and comparing UOA's.

Because the UOA looks good. I report my experience with the RTS as additional info for anyone who cares, but the primary job of the oil is not to make my engine rev faster and losing 3/4 of a quart in one year and 6k miles is not an issue. These are supplemental pieces of information to help people decide for themselves which oil they might like to try, but the primary job of the oil is to lubricate, clean, and help cool the engine's internals. The UOA shows the RTS did this very, very well given the fact the oil was in use for almost 13 months and 6k miles. I have only recommend it to the FI crowd or those who might see a lot of track time, based on the UOA's of this oil coming from FI engines, and now I have a UOA and first hand experience with it in a regular, stock, daily-driven Z. As the UOA shows, it performs well. As my account details, it also might burn off some (not many people leave the oil in for a year and might not let the car sit for long periods between driving, either) and feels sluggish when cold compared to other oils I've used. If that's a deal breaker for you, then don't try the RTS since there are other oils for the daily driver that have just as good or better UOA's without these complaints.

I could care less one way or the other about M1. I don't have a dislike for the company or its products, but I don't promote products by brand name, either. Most of XOM products all have average UOA's. People have used M1 and switched to Castrol GTX and seen an improvement in wear results. Same for switching to PP 10W-30, and to Amsoil. There is a trend for some other products to offer less wear for even less money, so I don't recommend M1 a lot. I have recommended M1 0W-40 to those who are FI or do track days. It has the best wear numbers for any of the XOM blends.

Thanks. If you get a UOA done, post it up. I'll average it into the M1 results for comparison. I plan on holding onto my Nissan as well. Btw, what do you have with an SR20 in it, SE-R? I used to have a B15 SE, and have always had a soft spot for the SR engine.

Will

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

ZDDP is a great additive for just about any type of metal contact. The cam on bucket design the VQ uses surely appreciates some ZDDP, but so would the timing chain and oil pump sprocket, and CVTC gears. Too bad the stuff has been shown to deteriorate catalytic converters, because ZDDP is relatively inexpensive compared to the newer additives that are replacing it.

Will

ZeeForce

Will,

Here is the 2nd UOA on the freshly built 06 RevUp. Your commentaries on the first one were very much appreciated.

Here is the link to the first UOA. https://my350z.com/forum/showpost.ph...&postcount=427


Data from both UOA’s are combined on this data sheet. Both were using Castrol GTX 5w-30.

Some background data:

2006 MT RevUp VQ35 replaced with freshly built engine.
Total miles on new engine: 7603 mi
Oil change interval: 3223
Oil: Castrol GTX 5w-30
Oil Filter: Nissan OEM
Air Filter: Cotton oil based K&N style. The air filter was replaced at 1259 miles into this OCI with Amsoil’s PAPER EaA type filter. The intake system is a Nismo CAI.
Fuel: Shell V-Power 91 octane

Oil added: Zero
Oil consumption: 4-5 mm (1/8 - < 1/4)

Mods:
Nismo catback exhaust
Nismo CAI

Driving habits: Daily driving, no track or autoX., 40/ 60 freeway/street, no revs over 4000 rpm.

Location geography: Northern California average temperatures 35-100 degrees. Dry, not very dusty.

On this oil change I swapped out the Castrol GTX for Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30 and installed Amsoil oil filter.

Thanks in advance
Curtis