ZeeForce

Will,

Here it the other 350Z, 2005 Non RevUp MT with background history as follows:

Oil: Mobil 1 0w-40
Oil filter: Mobil 1 M110
This is the first oil change interval (OCI) using M1 0w-40. Ran Castrol GTX 5w-30 from day 1 until 33k mile, then two oil change intervals with RP 10w-30.

The BlackStone UOA for the second OCI with RP can be found here: https://my350z.com/forum/showpost.ph...&postcount=333

Miles on oil change interval: 5121 mi
Mileage on engine: 48,548 mi
Oil added on this interval: Zero
Oil consumption: 7mm (1/4 quart)

Fuel: Shell V Power 91 octane
Fuel additives: None
Air Filter: Oil Type K&N style
Note: The air filter after this oil change was switched over to Amsoil’ PAPER type EaAu air filter replacing the Nismo CAI cotton oiled type of air filter.

Mods
Nismo Catback exhaust
Nismo CAI
Plenum Spacer (upper) 5/16”

Driving habits: Daily driver, 80% freeway: 20% street. Northern California temps averaging between 35-100 degrees. Not much dust in this area of Calif. No track, nor AutoX.


Thanks in advance
Curtis

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

****Updated 7.6.08****

The first page has been updated again, courtesy of the restored edit privileges, New charts, with new graphs, new Q&A's added, and now a list of sources for those who wish to learn more than what's offered here.

Will

SteveZ

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the info, that's really good to know - much appreciated.

QuadCam

iTrader: (8)

here's a good article on flat tappet cam tech. it talks about zppd and using diesel oils.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ech/index.html

for those that don't know pushrod V8s.......a flat tappet cam/lifter combo is very similar is design to our "cam over bucket" setups. in the article, it says

"the OEMs got together with the motor oil makers and decided to reduce the amount ofZDDP in street-legal, gasoline-engine motor oils. After all, they weren't needed with modern roller lifters and overhead-cam followers."

the article isn't talking about our style engines. Ford uses "cam followers" in their OHC and DOHC engines. their design uses a roller rocker arm, of sorts, after the cam to open the valve. The Ford design allows for much more aggressive cam lobes and ramps, while utilizing a roller to reduce friction.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

That's an interesting way to put it, since both auto manufacturers and engine oil blenders would like to keep using ZDDP. SAE paper 2007-01-1990, published last year, only confirms what engine builders had noticed 40 years ago, and gives a strong argument for the continued use of ZDDP in modern engines due to the AW/EP protection offered for all types of contact. It's especially good at resisting shear, relatively inexpensive, and plentiful to secure. The problem is, it has been shown to reduce the life expectancy of catalytic converters, and as such, government regulations have been enacted through the API and ILSAC to reduce the amount of ZDDP in certified engine oils. The new ILSAC GF-5 is on the way, and a new API designation is to follow, which will cut ZDDP levels again. There are a number of anti-wear and extreme pressure additives that may be used instead, but they are expensive and place a burden on auto manufacturers to design engines which will last while also meeting the demand for longer oil change intervals. This also places a burden on oil companies to formulate specific oils to meet auto manufacturer requirements, and is the reason we now have so many OEM specific approval lists and tests. (Corvette approval, Porsche, BMW LL approvals, MB and VW certifications, etc...) This has culminated in increased costs for both the auto manufacturers and oil blenders. As the SAE paper illustrates, ZDDP is effective and cheap to meet OEM demands for proper engine protection, but eventually even diesel/heavy duty engine oils will see the elimination of it as an additive.

Will

Nederlander75

Funny thing is there is another paper in BITOG posted by a fan/possible finanaicial contributer to Bio Ester that indicates ZDDP essentially turns to soap when confronted with high fuel. However, I think we will find this out quick as I have it my Speed6 with its direct injection via the Rotella.

Nice read, thank you!

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Well, I think your engine is still breaking in. The fuel dilution is higher than I'd like to see, probably from blow-by. While the chromium is low, the iron is most likely from upper cylinder wear as the rings seat against it, and the Nickel helps confirm the fuel is from incomplete break-in. The fuel is most likely responsible for your oil shearing out of grade (anything below 12.5 cSt is a 20 weight), since that's what fuel dilution does and the oxidation and nitration levels help rule out shearing from heat. It's really not a bad wearing engine, and while copper from bearings and bushings is still higher than I would be comfortable with, the Pb and tin are both low, which means the fuel dilution hasn't caused any issue with journal and rod bearings. The only thing that really sticks out here, besides the fuel dilution, is the sodium. Combined with the trace coolant in the oil, you might have an issue brewing and would need to monitor that. Other PP samples have not shown sodium levels like this, so it's not an additive they use, it's most likely from some coolant. The silicon has lowered, and getting rid of the K&N will most likely improve this number, since my own results have shown that it does offer some horsepower- at the loss of filtering efficiency.

I know it's frustrating to have this new V2 with a fuel dilution problem, but oil consumption is low and there is almost no moisture in the engine. I would say it's just taking longer than the original VQ35 (non rev-ups) to break in.

I'm also using PP 5W-30 right now. So, between yours and mine, we could have an interesting comparison between the two UOA's. How much we could gain from it is debatable, but it could be interesting nonetheless. Plus, it would be good to finally get some PP 5W-30 UOA's in the comparison chart with their new formula.

Will

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

I still say M1 0W-40 is one of the best blends XOM makes, and would use it over any of their 30 or 40 weight oils. With M1 TDT 5W-40 being the only exception. That said...

Wear is pretty good. Chromium is a bit high, as I said on the first page, I don't like anything higher than 1ppm for Chromium. But 2ppm isn't anything to really worry about. Iron is always high with M1 blends. Copper could also be a bit better for the mileage, but all in all, it's wear looks good. Boron is listed under contaminates in terry's report, but the boron isn't a contaminant in this case. M1 uses a borate ester in this blend, and the level is normal. Compare the sodium from this engine to your new V2- what a difference. The M1 sheared down to a 30 weight. This is also normal. It was already a very thin 40 weight, and the VQ is hard on oils. Fuel was alright, and nitrates were in check, so the shearing is from mechanical shearing, not fuel dilution like the V2. Oxidation is high, which backs up the mechanical shearing of the oil and some thermal break-down. There are those who speculate the M1 0W-40 is designed to shear down and become shear-stable as a thick 30 weight. Maybe, who knows but XOM. The TAN was pretty high, but there is enough base to justify a longer oil change interval. The M1 0W-40 is pretty robust in this regard, with a high TBN. I'd say that since you are not tracking the car, a heavier oil weight isn't doing anything for you, and would use a good 30 weight oil. I'm not sure what you've already switched to, but if you wanted to go for longer drains Amsoil might be worth your attention.

Will

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

On another note, I was in Illinois last month and had a chance to discuss filtering efficiencies with some engineers for Donaldson. It was an educational experience in filtering beyond analyzing flow and Beta ratios, and I have to say, they gave a good argument for their synthetic filtering media. Donaldson currently makes Amsoil's EaO filters, and is well known in industrial applications. They have a few air filters for performance cars, such as the Corvettte, and might have some more air filter applications coming to market. I would highly recommend them for trying out if they do make a 350Z application, and would also say that their oil filters are worth the money for anyone doing extended drains. In fact, their oil filters are the only ones I think capable of offering good flow with a filtering efficiency down to an amazing 5 microns. That's enough to effect UOA results.

Will

ZeeForce

Will,
Thanks for the commentary on the 2006 freshly built Rev-Up. Hopefully with the changes that were made during the OCI or at oil change will improve the numbers.

Changed the Air filter from the K&N oil based cotton air filter to Amsoil PAPER. btw: the Amsoil part # is EaAU3050, which is an exact dimension fit for NISMO CAI filter, which uses a K&N style filter.

You metioned above that Doanldson/Amsoil has a few performance air filters. Are these newer than the EaAUxxxx series?

Also changed to Amsoil oil filter part # EAO12
Changed oil to PP 5w-30

I also hope we can have a good comparison between you PP and mine. It is frustrating, although I was almost sure this engine would take longer to seat and seal completely, say up to 15-18k mi.

For the 2005 Non Rev commentary. I am very happy and will consider Amsoil oil on the next OCI. Currently running Mobil1 0w-40 and changed the oil filter to Amsoil. Also changed out the NISMO CAI air filter to paper Amsoil. This one is running with a upper plenum spacer 5/16".

Did you see any traces in the data that could be a tarnished like schlack build up on the rings?

Overall the 2005 Non Rev-Up looks good.

Thanks again Will

Cheers
Curtis

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

I am not sure how what I saw compares with what air filters Amsoil currently sells. I was in Illinois at the Caterpillar facility for a SAE event, where I met these guys from Donaldson talking about their industrial filters for CAT diesels. I just brought up their oil filters being sold by Amsoil, and if Donaldson had any intention to market them directly, and it turned out they had all kinds of stuff with them about their synthetic air filters. There wasn't a display or marketing guys or any official info about the future of this line, just some good data to be seen and the one example they had. the filtering media was high quality with EXCELLENT fiber consistency, and looked promising. The Corvette filter that they sell is marketed by Donaldson, and not through Amsoil, so it could be different. They were hesitant to discuss what Donaldson contracts to Amsoil, I would guess because of confidentiality agreements or the fact that they really weren't sure which products were contracted with Amsoil.

Will

QuadCam

iTrader: (8)

Will,

what do you think of these types of additives? I got got an email about this stuff from eastwoodtools.com

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

I put a question in the Q&A on the first page about additive products. Generally, I don't like them, but I have seen some good results with a few products. I would be very cautious about using too much of this stuff. For example, Volvoline SynPower Oil Treatment has a lot of ZDDP in it, along with moly and antimonyTDC. Using one oz of the stuff per quart of oil is a lot less than what the instructions on the bottle advise, but produces good results that way. Whatever the dose of this stuff is that you have, I would not use very much of it to supplement the loss of ZDDP in newer oil formations. There is more chemistry involved than just simply adding additives. There has to be a balance to prohibit corrosive reactions, and overwhelming the stock properties of the oil with too much ZDDP is a possibility. Hence, why the VSOT works best with a limited addition of the product rather than dumping the whole bottle in the crankcase. I suspect the same would hold true with this ZDDP product.

Will

ZeeForce

Good to know about Donaldson air filters, will keep an eye out for any future air filter applications coming to market for the 350Z..

SteveZ

iTrader: (3)

This may be a noob question, but the dealer specs an "oil additive" for my car not every change but more like every 15-20k miles, do you have any idea what Nissan/Infiniti is using there? I do my own changes at 4-5k intervals anyway, just curious what they're pushing.

Thanks

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

I have seen a few dealers push "cleaning" products on their customers. It's not required in the owner's manual, and it's not required for warranty. I had a dealership try and tell my wife that we had to pay for their additive to keep the warranty, of course they could not show where this was stated in the factory service manual, and we kept our warranty active despite not paying the dealer's premium. There are several brands out there that I have seen dealers try and push, all of them similar to the over-the-counter products people use, and I have never paid for any of them. Use a good oil, change it out when need be, use the right octane gasoline, and keep the filters clean- then no special additives should be needed.

Will

Nexx

iTrader: (41)

anyone who has done a UOA on Eneos notice any burn off?

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, John posted his UOA with Eneos a few pages back. He had burn-off, really low TBN, and the oil sheared out of grade. For 11.99/qt, you'd think it would have done better.

Will

Nexx

iTrader: (41)

my built motor ate through it like nothing.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Bummer. Too bad you didn't catch John's UOA and comments about the oil sooner. What made you try it? Weren't you using M1 0W-40 before?

Will