Resolute

iTrader: (2)

This has gone way outside the thread topic of oil analysis results for DE engines, so I'd rather not discuss this in too much detail, but here is a report from a VQ37VHR with the results of two oil analysis done, the first results are in parenthesis and the second analysis results are not. Notice the mileage on each oil sample, and the corresponding wear metal numbers:

MI/HR on oil - 3,830mi (2,670mi)
MI/HR on car - 6,501mi (2,670mi)
Sample date - 25 July 08 (21 June 08)
Oil added - 0 quarts (0 quarts)

aluminum - 7 (8)
chromium - 0 (0)
iron - 27 (71)
copper - 44 (140)
lead - 5 (12)
tin - 1 (1)
molybdenum - 136 (491)
nickel - 0 (1)
manganese - 4 (10)
silver - 0 (0)
titanium - 0 (0)
potassium - 3 (8)
boron - 6 (15)
silicon - 60 (229)
sodium - 7 (7)
calcium - 1805 (1981)
magnesium - 11 (11)
phosphorus - 672 (734)
zinc - 825 (916)
barium - 2 (9)

SUS Viscosity @ 210'F - 53.6 (52.3)
cSt Viscosity @ 100'C - 8.36 (7.97)
Flashpoint in 'F - 380 (390)
Fuel % - <0.5 (<0.5)
Antifreeze % - 0.0 (0.0)
Water % - 0.0 (0.0)
Insolubles % - 0.3 (0.3)

The thread is:
http://myg37.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183886&page=2

And the oil was factory fill on the first change and Valvoline 5W-30 on the second. Now, compare the iron, copper, and lead numbers in this report to the average results posted in the comparison charts for the same elements in a DE engine. His engine is wearing very badly. Even the newly-built V2 DE engines are not anywhere near this bad for first and second oil changes, just look at ZeeForce's and OCG35's oil analysis results for comparison. Plus, this engine has sheared the bejeezus out of each oil- neither of them are anywhere near a 30 weight oil after use. Hopefully your sample will look much better.

Will

detroitg37joe

do you think a switch to gc 0w-30 could improve these numbers? Isn't the motor breaking in more to blame than the type of oil on the first few cycles?

Mike Wazowski

iTrader: (113)

maybe you missed this?

detroitg37joe

Ah, I see. So even my switch to synthetic won't change the wear patterns, unless the wear natuarally diminishes. Interesting. Thanks for the help guys! I didnt mean to come off as a troll or anything - I'm a fellow VQ-guy and from a sister site (myg37).

06CPV35

^I would recommend many oil intervals in it's early life to flush out assembly lubes. In also not letting the oil shear down as much with normal fuel dilute during break-in period along with the assembly lubes.

That's what I did on my DE replacement. Think Resolute was referring to ZeeForce and myself, rather than ZeeForce and OCG35. OCG35 has no posts in this thread lol.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, my bad. All you G guys have similar screen names



Joe- The type of oil you use will make an impact on engine wear. That has been demonstrated time and again in this thread. Engine wear is a function of many variables, and lubrication is one of them. Oil type will affect lubrication and engine protection, and some oils tend to work better than others for a given engine. You asked if conventional or synthetic should be used during the break-in period. My answer was that during the break-in time, changing the oil frequently is more important than base stocks used, and that you are fine to use synthetic now if you wish. The UOA I posted shows how much more severe the wear from a VHR engine seems to be compared to a DE engine. This heavy amount of wear is NOT caused by the oil, as oil does NOT cause wear. Engine oil protects critical surfaces from wear and some do a better job than others. Seeing as to how the VHR has much higher engine wear than a DE during the break-in time frame, brought on by rapidly destroying the oil's ability to protect critical areas, changing the oil frequently seems even more important on the VHR than the DE. Choosing a good oil that works well in the VHR is also going to be important. Keeping a running log of UOA's and identifying trends will help you see which oils do a better job than others. Just as this method has produced good results for DE engine owners. This is not to say that the VHR wear patterns will be anything like the DE patterns, since the engines are very different, but you will see trends for some oils to produce lower wear then others. As example, iron wear in the 20 parts per million may be good for that engine (while being high for the DE). 20 ppm million with one engine oil is better than consistent 30 or 40ppm Iron readings using another brand of oil, and this is what you should be looking for with your VHR.

Will

06CPV35

No worries

Have you ever heard of the oil Nissan/Infiniti is recommending now for the VHR? Nissan Ester Oil P/N 999MP-5W30EP. Sounds like an ester based oil? Have not a clue. Wonder if there's any benefit of it for our DE's. It's to reduce the VVEL noise found in some of those. There's a TSB on it, but too big in allowing to upload here.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Yes, it is a conventional Group2 base stock oil with ester-based additives. It is not a G5 oil like Motul or Redline. As opposed to a POE or Diester base oil, this conventional oil has a healthy dose of some ester additive, such as the Borate esters used by many companies such as Mobil and Castrol in certain products. I am sure a VOA will be done by someone and we'll have a better idea of the formulation, but my guess is that the oil is no where near worth picking up at the $12/quart my local dealer rapes their customers for. I wouldn't buy it. My guess is the VVEL system places a significant amount of shearing forces on the oil between the rocker arm, eccentric cam, and output cam linkages which prohibit the oil from properly lubricating these parts. Since the lubrication needs dictate high film strength, a good ester additive fits the bill perfectly since it will aid in polar affinity of the oil to metals, resist shear, and possibly aid in increasing viscosity with fewer VII's while meeting the specs for SM and GF-4. Of course, additives like Borate Esters aren't cheap, either, but can be found in formulations like GC 0W-30 and even Silkolene for less money than $12 a quart. I wonder who makes this oil for Nissan. Most of their factory oils are Esso, which is Mobil's overseas division, but I don't know if this oil is an XOM product.

Will

06CPV35

^Thank you for your excellent (as usual) response. I'm sure the VHR guys will figure out a good aftermarket oil to use rather than dealer's with that cost. As you said earlier, VHR is a very different beast than our DE's.

I'll post my next UOA on my remanned VQ. It'll have 7500mi on it when that time arrives, still using Valvoline 10w-30 Dura Blend. Until then.....

Nederlander75

Thats pretty interesting since I just had 5 gallons of a Grooup II and Group V 5w40 with a heavy dose of high end AW, FM, and AO adds.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

What did you just have 5 gallons of?

Will

Nederlander75

5w40 motor oil made from spec to fit my 2 applications in CO. Was spec'd to handle heavy fuel dilution and the high presssure of the VQ mechanicals while holding up for extended drain. To get more I will have to put for a drum, however.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

RLI BioSyn?

Will

Nederlander75

No, its an industrial lubricant manufacturer in Northern CA. I cant disclose the name until Im paying.

QuadCam

iTrader: (8)

nope. I have a Greddy TT on my sedan. The vortech car in the Performance factory install video is a coupe.

QuadCam

iTrader: (8)

Resolute,

do you have an experience with some of the exotic Shell oils and Castrol Oils. I was reading a debate on a BMW forum regarding these oils. I can't remember the names of them.....but they were 0W60 oils (i think.) I think the Shell was part of their Helix line and the Castrol was in the RS lineup.

also, with all the changes in oils these days, whichones have the greatest amounts of ZDDP. as you may recall, I am using the Rotella T-SYN (and it's been great.) .........I'm just looking to see else is out there.

Andrew

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

I know of those oils, the Helix Ultra and Castrol RS, but have no experience with them. BMW recommends a 0W-60 for their new M3, which is not a common car and therefore neither are those oils. I do know that Shell sells the Helix Ultra 5W-40 and 0W-60 oils as Q Horsepower in the States, available at some Ferrari dealerships.

As far as ZDDP levels, I'm not sure which is the highest. You could easily check the data sheets of the oils you're interested in and see. The ZDDP levels are always given, usually as a percentage. The Rotella you have is pretty decent in regards to ZDDP, but I know some racing oils will have higher amounts. Whether they are any good for running on the street is another matter.

Will

QuadCam

iTrader: (8)

I was thinking about a dino oil that is high in zddp for use as a new motor break-in oil. with the cam-over-bucket design on these engines, it would seem that a conventional oil with lots of zddp would be great for use during initial break-in of a new motor.......I'm am talking about a "built" turbo motor, not a brand new stock VQ, btw.

wiseman

Resloute, I love how some people have the uncanny ability to predict the future. You stated

"My guess is the VVEL system places a significant amount of shearing forces on the oil between the rocker arm, eccentric cam, and output cam linkages which prohibit the oil from properly lubricating these parts. Since the lubrication needs dictate high film strength, a good ester additive fits the bill perfectly since it will aid in polar affinity of the oil to metals, resist shear, and possibly aid in increasing viscosity with fewer VII's while meeting the specs for SM and GF-4. "

Well my engine on my G37S went after 20,000 miles. During the 10 months ive owned the car Ive put in 25 quarts of mobil 1 synthetic. The car consumed oil like crazy. One day I started my car, gave it some gas a few blocks after starting and the engine went.

The service dept at dealer said all my bearings were shredded/melted. I am not a mechanic but the G37s obviously needs the ester oil to lubricate its moving parts on cold starts and before the engine has had a chance to lubricate all its moving parts.

What do you think? Should I be on the lookup for this problem again with the ester oil. I am not a kid driver. I commute to NYC in the car everyday in traffic and it puts a beating on my manual g37s.

BeerViper

And back to a VQ Oil Analysis...

Here are the results on my '04 G35. The engine has 49,810 miles of which nearly 36,000 have been boosted by a Vortech supercharger running at ~6psi. My kit uses the standard K&N air filter; which I have two of for interchange purposes.

The oil used here is Mobil1 0W-40 with a Mobil1 oil filter (M1-108). This is the 3rd or 4th oil change using this oil. The oil was run 2,956 miles for this analysis although the time between changes was more than 9 months. There was no make up oil added.

Also, there were 2 mild track days over the course of this oil usage. The next analysis will have at least 1 very hard track day, which went through about 7.5 gallons of 110 octane unleaded, if not 2 (not sure if it's worth it to stay with the same oil for a 2nd heavy track day).

I look forward to your analysis Resolute and I graciously thank you for this thread and all of the data that you have provided for everyone!

EDIT: The motor itself is a stock block. Everything aftermarket is basically a bolt-on part including the Vortech S/C, Injen exhaust, and Motordyne 1/2" plenum spacer.