Notices
Engine & Drivetrain VQ Power and Delivery

Anyone Hear of Replacing O2 Sensor when Replacing Wideband Sensor?

Old 08-17-2010, 09:13 AM
  #1  
pfregeolle
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
pfregeolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Shop™
Posts: 3,404
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Default Anyone Hear of Replacing O2 Sensor when Replacing Wideband Sensor?

Hey guys,

Before anyone says to use the search, I really did try searching and couldn't come across anything...anyways:


Well my SES light came back on again right before I took my car into Nissan last to have the Rev-up motor swapped under warranty. Last time the code thrown indicated that I needed to replace my Wideband Sensor on the left bank, which Nissan confirmed. So I bought a Bosch replacement sensor, item # 15667, and it fit in perfectly, no problems. Well the light came back on right before I took the car back into Nissan, and they said again it was the same code, and that indeed that Sensor is bad and needs to be replaced. After I told them I just replaced it pretty recently, they kind of gave me a dumb answer saying I still need to buy one basically. And then my service adviser actually told me that one of his technicians has heard that when the wideband sensor is replaced on my motor, that the O2 sensor needs to be replaced too, for the respective bank.

Anyone ever heard of this and can verify if it's true or not? I don't mind buying the second sensor if this is really the case. I can just get them pretty inexpensive through Amazon, even for the genuine Bosch sensors. Just curious to know if anyone has heard this, or knows it is true. All I know is I'm getting shotty gas mileage right now, and I really don't want to eff anything up on my new motor by driving too long without fixing the issue. Thanks so much fellas!

-Paul
pfregeolle is offline  
Old 08-17-2010, 12:03 PM
  #2  
pfregeolle
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
pfregeolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Shop™
Posts: 3,404
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Nobody?
pfregeolle is offline  
Old 09-02-2010, 07:24 AM
  #3  
pfregeolle
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
pfregeolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Shop™
Posts: 3,404
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Well just a heads up to anyone out there that has a 2005 or 2006 revup, I replaced both sensors and the SES went away. So if this info helps you more than it did for me, you're welcome
pfregeolle is offline  
Old 09-02-2010, 08:29 AM
  #4  
terrasmak
Super Moderator
MY350Z.COM
iTrader: (8)
 
terrasmak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sin City
Posts: 25,457
Liked 1,097 Times in 804 Posts
Default

I'm lost, something about wideband on the motor and something and O2 senser.
terrasmak is offline  
Old 09-02-2010, 09:39 AM
  #5  
pfregeolle
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
pfregeolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Shop™
Posts: 3,404
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Ok, the revup engines have wideband sensors in the headers instead of oxygen sensors like the non-revup motors. So the code that was thrown implied that my bank 2 sensor 1 was bad, but when I replaced that sensor, the light still came back on. So when I asked Nissan about it, they said sometimes when you replace sensor #1, you also have to replace sensor #2, which in my case is an oxygen sensor.

So I had to buy a Bosch Wideband Sensor (Upstream [Sensor #1]) and a Bosch Oxygen Sensor (Downstream [Sensor #2]). This fixed the problem!
pfregeolle is offline  
Old 09-02-2010, 11:59 AM
  #6  
Zazz93
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
 
Zazz93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,766
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Default

If I'm not mistaken 2005 is the year that they started using widebands, OEM. Your code will more than likey re-appear down the road. Have you done any data logging? Check to see if you are really lean, in most cases I've seen the mods people make create a lean mixture and the code is 100% accurate.
Zazz93 is offline  
Old 09-02-2010, 12:00 PM
  #7  
pfregeolle
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
pfregeolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Shop™
Posts: 3,404
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Default

The code thrown said the sensor was actually a bad sensor, and Nissan confirmed that. I've driven almost 500 miles now on the new sensors and it hasn't come back on yet.
pfregeolle is offline  
Old 09-02-2010, 02:59 PM
  #8  
terrasmak
Super Moderator
MY350Z.COM
iTrader: (8)
 
terrasmak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sin City
Posts: 25,457
Liked 1,097 Times in 804 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by pfregeolle View Post
Ok, the revup engines have wideband sensors in the headers instead of oxygen sensors like the non-revup motors.
What is a wideband senser, I know what a wideband 02 senser is? Our cars have four o2 sensers, 2 of them are pre-cat , the other 2 are post-cat.
terrasmak is offline  
Old 09-02-2010, 10:45 PM
  #9  
pfregeolle
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
pfregeolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Shop™
Posts: 3,404
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Default

A wideband SENSOR is a sensor that measures the Air/Fuel Ratio rather than the oxygen in the exhaust. The 2003-2004.5 and some 2005 models do have 4 o2 SENSORS total, like you said. But the other 2005 and most 2006 (I believe) have 2 o2 SENSORS and 2 wideband SENSORS, rather than 4 like previous models; the wideband SENSORS are precat aka upstream aka SENSOR #1, while the o2 SENSORS are postcat aka downstream aka SENSOR (not senser)#2.
pfregeolle is offline  
Old 09-03-2010, 12:05 AM
  #10  
dirtbikr
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by pfregeolle View Post
A wideband SENSOR is a sensor that measures the Air/Fuel Ratio rather than the oxygen in the exhaust. The 2003-2004.5 and some 2005 models do have 4 o2 SENSORS total, like you said. But the other 2005 and most 2006 (I believe) have 2 o2 SENSORS and 2 wideband SENSORS, rather than 4 like previous models; the wideband SENSORS are precat aka upstream aka SENSOR #1, while the o2 SENSORS are postcat aka downstream aka SENSOR (not senser)#2.
a) Jeez grammar ****, one BOLD and capitalized word would have been enough.

b) Wrong wrong wrong... A wideband o2 sensor is simply an o2 sensor with infinite attenuation. A logical statement would be as follows: All wideband o2 sensors are o2 sensors, but not all o2 sensors are widebands. A "narrow-band" o2 sensor, like what is used in the '03 to '04.5 Z's Only gives the computer 3 readings: Lean, Stoich, or Rich. Because of this, a wideband o2 sensor is much more useful. ALL 350z's have 4 o2 sensors, but it so happens that the 04.5 and above models come with two wideband o2 sensors. This draws the next conclusion that no 2005 350z cars came with 4 narrow-band o2 sensors. What you are correct about is their position: the fronts are wideband o2 sensors, and the rears are narrow-band o2 sensors.
dirtbikr is offline  
Old 09-03-2010, 02:18 AM
  #11  
Ziggyrama
Registered User
iTrader: (15)
 
Ziggyrama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Northboro, MA
Posts: 1,069
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by dirtbikr View Post
a) Jeez grammar ****, one BOLD and capitalized word would have been enough.

b) Wrong wrong wrong... A wideband o2 sensor is simply an o2 sensor with infinite attenuation. A logical statement would be as follows: All wideband o2 sensors are o2 sensors, but not all o2 sensors are widebands. A "narrow-band" o2 sensor, like what is used in the '03 to '04.5 Z's Only gives the computer 3 readings: Lean, Stoich, or Rich. Because of this, a wideband o2 sensor is much more useful. ALL 350z's have 4 o2 sensors, but it so happens that the 04.5 and above models come with two wideband o2 sensors. This draws the next conclusion that no 2005 350z cars came with 4 narrow-band o2 sensors. What you are correct about is their position: the fronts are wideband o2 sensors, and the rears are narrow-band o2 sensors.
Correct. What is also worth noting is that, essentially, wideband sensors are a lot more accurate at higher loads when flow in the exhaust is much higher. Narrow band sensors are fairly accurate when the mix is close to stoich ratio. They become very inaccurate when you start mashing the throttle. So, wideband sensors are just better, more accurate oxygen sensors.

The reason why you have 4 sensors, 2 pre cat and 2 post cat is because:

1. 2 precat wideband sensors are used for controlling fueling. Z with a wideband will do this more accurately than a Z with a narrowband.

2. 2 post cat sensors are used for monitoring CATs. Properly functioning CATs have a significant effect on the sensor's readings, when compared to the gas before it enters the CAT. based on the sensor's readings, the ECU can assess if the device is functioning properly.

It is likely that you could drive around without 2 rear sensors. They are there for emissions monitoring. You can't live without the front 2 sensors as they are a lot more important.
Ziggyrama is offline  
Old 09-03-2010, 03:06 AM
  #12  
winchman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,335
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Default

"A wideband o2 sensor is simply an o2 sensor with infinite attenuation."

I'm not sure what the term "infinite attenuation" means in this context. Anywhere else it would mean turning something completely off, like you'd do with the mute button on an audio system. That doesn't make sense here.

Perhaps you mean "better discrimination", which would imply being able to measure and report more usable information than just the three conditions you mentioned.
winchman is offline  
Old 09-03-2010, 06:12 AM
  #13  
pfregeolle
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (15)
 
pfregeolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Shop™
Posts: 3,404
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Per Bosch's web page, this is how it refers to the wideband sensor that is used in our rev-up motors:


Bosch Wideband Air/Fuel ratio sensors utilize a more sophisticated sensing element that enables them to produce a precise output in proportion to the air/fuel ratio. As a result, a wideband A/F sensor measures exhaust gas oxygen accurately from as rich as 9.0:1 to as lean as free air. The use of the Wideband A/F sensors is growing rapidly as original equipment in vehicles and in high-performance specialty markets.
pfregeolle is offline  
Old 09-03-2010, 07:58 AM
  #14  
Zazz93
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
 
Zazz93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,766
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Default

What it all boils down to is... if you had a bad sensor replacing it was a good idea, if the code was accurate you may have wasted $80-100. Hope it works out for you, 500 miles should be pretty good in determining this but this code has been known to return as late as a 1100-1200 miles down the road. Good luck.
Zazz93 is offline  
Old 09-03-2010, 12:10 PM
  #15  
dirtbikr
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by winchman View Post
"A wideband o2 sensor is simply an o2 sensor with infinite attenuation."

I'm not sure what the term "infinite attenuation" means in this context. Anywhere else it would mean turning something completely off, like you'd do with the mute button on an audio system. That doesn't make sense here.

Perhaps you mean "better discrimination", which would imply being able to measure and report more usable information than just the three conditions you mentioned.
Attenuation in this case would concern the propagation of electrical signals in the circuit that concerns the computer and the o2 sensor.
dirtbikr is offline  
Old 09-03-2010, 12:35 PM
  #16  
terrasmak
Super Moderator
MY350Z.COM
iTrader: (8)
 
terrasmak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sin City
Posts: 25,457
Liked 1,097 Times in 804 Posts
Default

You replaced the sensor that the code called for, and you still have the same code or it went away for a little bit and came back?

The code was for left bank, pre or post cat? And did you replace the correct one? What is the code number you had?

They normally will not fault in pairs, but they will be close. When you do have a pair fail it will normally be both the LT and RT side do to age, or if you get both to fail on one side its normally do to a bigger problem (like what is causing to O2 sensors to fail on the same side)

Last edited by terrasmak; 09-03-2010 at 12:42 PM.
terrasmak is offline  
Old 04-14-2012, 03:01 PM
  #17  
alexml
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: portugal
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

i have a 2004 Z can i replace the oxygen sensor for a wideband sensor? and mesur it from Osiris??
alexml is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
XM 1
Engine & Drivetrain
25
02-10-2019 09:58 AM
Colombo
Forced Induction
32
08-15-2018 06:05 PM
Rev_Night
Wheels & Tires
25
10-17-2016 11:09 AM
350z82
Exterior & Interior
19
10-01-2015 06:25 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Anyone Hear of Replacing O2 Sensor when Replacing Wideband Sensor?


Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: