Warning: Stay away from Siebon and Carbon LTD
You know what I think I'm going to put it back on this week and take the pics.. I need to see this guy burn.
PS, Jim, I've already been issued a credit for the full amount. It's on you to fight with the paypal people and cc company to prove your case. Not the other way around...
PS, Jim, I've already been issued a credit for the full amount. It's on you to fight with the paypal people and cc company to prove your case. Not the other way around...
Last edited by vze4fhpv; Mar 23, 2007 at 08:49 AM.
Originally Posted by tattoo60012
Careful Jim, if pictures are provided and the OP can back up his claim this thread is NOT slander, it's reporting the TRUTH. Frankly if you believe in your product so much, why wouldn't you take the hood back and just sell it to someone else?
My guess, you already know the OP's claim holds water and now that the part is sold you don't want to take it back because you know you will be left holding the bag, sitting on a part that does not fit, and isn't worth the money you want to charge for it. You are so quick to talk about what if's...... What if the shop damaged the hood, what if the OP damaged the hood, what if the shop doesn't know how to fit the hood, anything to get away from the issue at hand. Here's a what if......
What if you took the hood back, issued a refund that is appropriate for the situation, and make the OP STFU. If the hood is damaged due to conditions that are outside your control, refuse the refund, take pics, send them to paypal and the CC company, justify your claim and stop stooping to the level of the OP. If you want definitives, make them happen for yourself, clear your name by taking care of the issue once and for all. Stop asking what if this and what if that and deal with the real issue. The fact that you are consistently trying to direct the conversation in any direction that doesn't require you to take care of the problem yourself is suspicious at best. If you want to call this thread slanderous, go ahead and do so...... after you can prove it. Until then you are no better than the OP and that is a shame.
My guess, you already know the OP's claim holds water and now that the part is sold you don't want to take it back because you know you will be left holding the bag, sitting on a part that does not fit, and isn't worth the money you want to charge for it. You are so quick to talk about what if's...... What if the shop damaged the hood, what if the OP damaged the hood, what if the shop doesn't know how to fit the hood, anything to get away from the issue at hand. Here's a what if......
What if you took the hood back, issued a refund that is appropriate for the situation, and make the OP STFU. If the hood is damaged due to conditions that are outside your control, refuse the refund, take pics, send them to paypal and the CC company, justify your claim and stop stooping to the level of the OP. If you want definitives, make them happen for yourself, clear your name by taking care of the issue once and for all. Stop asking what if this and what if that and deal with the real issue. The fact that you are consistently trying to direct the conversation in any direction that doesn't require you to take care of the problem yourself is suspicious at best. If you want to call this thread slanderous, go ahead and do so...... after you can prove it. Until then you are no better than the OP and that is a shame.
Also quite using (check my iTrader # and make your own decision) because most of people who bought from you don't know better. Business has gain and loose sometimes, if you only want to gain and forget about the loose then you aren't better then you said you are. Plus if Seibon doesn't want to take the lost by taking the hood back and what will you do for your customers (tell them to sell it used on eBay themself and give some moeny back? Because I know you told 2 others customers to do so and they aren't happy about it.) I think we will see the real answer pretty soon.
just a few points...
Originally Posted by vze4fhpv
You know what I think I'm going to put it back on this week and take the pics.. I need to see this guy burn.
Originally Posted by CarbonLTD
No everything is picked up from Seibon in Walnut, CA.
Originally Posted by drap660
Jim sent me a paypal payment for the 150 and I put in the extra 50 to have the hood filled... It actually came out great... i will be posting pics this weekend of how it came out... I did have to use shims to clear the plenum, adjust the latch and also had to slot the brackets to align the hood but that is normal...
Originally Posted by grandmasterboss
Yes you can say pick up from Seibon but you didn't pick it up. Is other business picks up and dropship for you. (I think thats it)
Originally Posted by grandmasterboss
Also quite using (check my iTrader # and make your own decision) because most of people who bought from you don't know better. Business has gain and loose sometimes, if you only want to gain and forget about the loose then you aren't better then you said you are. Plus if Seibon doesn't want to take the lost by taking the hood back and what will you do for your customers (tell them to sell it used on eBay themself and give some moeny back? Because I know you told 2 others customers to do so and they aren't happy about it.) I think we will see the real answer pretty soon.
Originally Posted by vze4fhpv
You know what I think I'm going to put it back on this week and take the pics.. I need to see this guy burn.
PS, Jim, I've already been issued a credit for the full amount. It's on you to fight with the paypal people and cc company to prove your case. Not the other way around...
PS, Jim, I've already been issued a credit for the full amount. It's on you to fight with the paypal people and cc company to prove your case. Not the other way around...
Originally Posted by danisr1
you seem to take it on the chin more than any other vendor, most like this one are just rediculous
Last edited by Jim@Showstoppers; Mar 23, 2007 at 10:00 AM.
Originally Posted by grandmasterboss
Disagree. No matter what products you buy, it has to works or fits. But if company doesn't care about the quality control then that company is shaty but however if company set up a quality control line and the product still not able to fit pefect then the product is defective and the company needs to do their R & D again to make sure future products can reach its expectation. Replica means copy, if seller wants to sell cheaper and replica the original then the fitment has to be in the process also, not just the style. All I want to say is to put your self into these people's position then I will see if you guys will still write what you guys wrote because I will be **** 2.
suspension peices that require use of stock peices
brake kits that require cutting of dust shields
turbo kits that require you to notch the support bars
fiberglass bodykits that need to be 'fitted'
exhuasts that need hangers bent to fit or line up correctly
shift ***** that require you to make your own finisher
seats that require you to modify or make brackets
everything aftermakret requires a little love. and sure, I'll put myself in BOTH of thier shoes.
Buyer: I would've taken the ****ing pictures, sent them and then got my money back and if he didn't then I would do the exact same thing as this. CC chargeback and bad post. actually, I would've done my research first and realized that the hood fitment is not up to my level and never bought it in the first place.
Seller: after exhausting my help and customer being unresponsive to his duties and a antagonistic email? I would've stopped communicating and refused to help further.
Just because you sell things does not make you beholden to anyone. people have this mentality about retail that the seller is your *****. not the case. THAT is why I stopped working in retail.
but again, my point of view will not change and neither will yours I am sure. I am jsut giving my opinion, NOT arguing about it!
I love everyone.
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OMG 7 pages and the migraine set in. I will say this as a manufacture. You cant please everybody as well you cant be responsible for under qualified techs. I know guys that have been building cars for over 20 years and they still sling crap.
No what about the carbon is it a oem copy or a knock off. I cant believe some of these posts about knock offs you expect and original for a knock off price.
As stated early the molds will go bad that's the reason why you pay for quality, as well knock off are just that they take a q product and slap up a mold on it. This is not done with any quality in mind its only about the Benji's. I would never refund on a product that wasn't sent back to be inspected or documented. I have told people to send the product for inspection or bring it in so WE can both identify the problem. Seams this customer might have a small claim on fitment yet he doesnt want to document it. The retailer is only asking for documentation and getting grief in its place.
The manufacture does have some responsibility as they say they will supply a quality product to the retailer why should they not have any responsibility.
Throw up some pics and prove your point otherwise you don't have a claim. This isn't a size 3 dress and you being a size 9 its a hood and what a $150 carbon hood at that what do you expect. Its not that hard to do.
No what about the carbon is it a oem copy or a knock off. I cant believe some of these posts about knock offs you expect and original for a knock off price.
As stated early the molds will go bad that's the reason why you pay for quality, as well knock off are just that they take a q product and slap up a mold on it. This is not done with any quality in mind its only about the Benji's. I would never refund on a product that wasn't sent back to be inspected or documented. I have told people to send the product for inspection or bring it in so WE can both identify the problem. Seams this customer might have a small claim on fitment yet he doesnt want to document it. The retailer is only asking for documentation and getting grief in its place.
The manufacture does have some responsibility as they say they will supply a quality product to the retailer why should they not have any responsibility.
Throw up some pics and prove your point otherwise you don't have a claim. This isn't a size 3 dress and you being a size 9 its a hood and what a $150 carbon hood at that what do you expect. Its not that hard to do.
Originally Posted by DXJP
OMG 7 pages and the migraine set in. I will say this as a manufacture. You cant please everybody as well you cant be responsible for under qualified techs. I know guys that have been building cars for over 20 years and they still sling crap.
No what about the carbon is it a oem copy or a knock off. I cant believe some of these posts about knock offs you expect and original for a knock off price.
As stated early the molds will go bad that's the reason why you pay for quality, as well knock off are just that they take a q product and slap up a mold on it. This is not done with any quality in mind its only about the Benji's. I would never refund on a product that wasn't sent back to be inspected or documented. I have told people to send the product for inspection or bring it in so WE can both identify the problem. Seams this customer might have a small claim on fitment yet he doesnt want to document it. The retailer is only asking for documentation and getting grief in its place.
The manufacture does have some responsibility as they say they will supply a quality product to the retailer why should they not have any responsibility.
Throw up some pics and prove your point otherwise you don't have a claim. This isn't a size 3 dress and you being a size 9 its a hood and what a $150 carbon hood at that what do you expect. Its not that hard to do.
No what about the carbon is it a oem copy or a knock off. I cant believe some of these posts about knock offs you expect and original for a knock off price.
As stated early the molds will go bad that's the reason why you pay for quality, as well knock off are just that they take a q product and slap up a mold on it. This is not done with any quality in mind its only about the Benji's. I would never refund on a product that wasn't sent back to be inspected or documented. I have told people to send the product for inspection or bring it in so WE can both identify the problem. Seams this customer might have a small claim on fitment yet he doesnt want to document it. The retailer is only asking for documentation and getting grief in its place.
The manufacture does have some responsibility as they say they will supply a quality product to the retailer why should they not have any responsibility.
Throw up some pics and prove your point otherwise you don't have a claim. This isn't a size 3 dress and you being a size 9 its a hood and what a $150 carbon hood at that what do you expect. Its not that hard to do.
I have been involved in developing and importing (outside manufacturer) products (a youth ATV) and I saw first hand the difference.
take this:
our two products: a 50cc and 90cc quad. we spent the time going to tiawan, visting the manufacturer and DEVELOPING the quad. changing specs, design etc. took forever and over ten revisions to get it to a price point and design we accepted.
price? (it has been a while since attending trade shows)
50cc - 899 (dealer)
90cc - 1100
^these are probably not right...
soo.... a year later... what fills the trade shwo floors? KNOCK OFF quads.
these people, buy a quad, ship it to china and they basically rip off the design. one company called it the 'mosquito' and seriously looked like they laid fiberglass over the body panels each time they made it. ours had vents in the fenders, thiers had the INDENTS but they weren't even cut out. our bodies were ABS i believe and thiers were chopper gun fiberglass... yet they undercut our price by 200 per unit in some cases. <and for good reason.
we had REAL suspensions that worked. we tested and engineered the steering stops so they didn't flip when you turned. you could see the casting difference in the parts... on and on and on.
yet we still lost a TON of sales (look at Pep boys and the complete junk they sell) because of the price. but we got a lot of customers back a short time later when they realized the crap they bought and compared ours
Last edited by Motormouth; Mar 23, 2007 at 11:19 AM.
Originally Posted by Motormouth
thank you.
I have been involved in developing and importing (outside manufacturer) products (a youth ATV) and I saw first hand the difference.
take this:
our two products: a 50cc and 90cc quad. we spent the time going to tiawan, visting the manufacturer and DEVELOPING the quad. changing specs, design etc. took forever and over ten revisions to get it to a price point and design we accepted.
price? (it has been a while since attending trade shows)
50cc - 899 (dealer)
90cc - 1100
^these are probably not right...
soo.... a year later... what fills the trade shwo floors? KNOCK OFF quads.
these people, buy a quad, ship it to china and they basically rip off the design. one company called it the 'mosquito' and seriously looked like they laid fiberglass over the body panels each time they made it. ours had vents in the fenders, thiers had the INDENTS but they weren't even cut out. our bodies were ABS i believe and thiers were chopper gun fiberglass... yet they undercut our price by 200 per unit in some cases. <and for good reason.
we had REAL suspensions that worked. we tested and engineered the steering stops so they didn't flip when you turned. you could see the casting difference in the parts... on and on and on.
yet we still lost a TON of sales (look at Pep boys and the complete junk they sell) because of the price. but we got a lot of customers back a short time later when they realized the crap they bought and compared ours
I have been involved in developing and importing (outside manufacturer) products (a youth ATV) and I saw first hand the difference.
take this:
our two products: a 50cc and 90cc quad. we spent the time going to tiawan, visting the manufacturer and DEVELOPING the quad. changing specs, design etc. took forever and over ten revisions to get it to a price point and design we accepted.
price? (it has been a while since attending trade shows)
50cc - 899 (dealer)
90cc - 1100
^these are probably not right...
soo.... a year later... what fills the trade shwo floors? KNOCK OFF quads.
these people, buy a quad, ship it to china and they basically rip off the design. one company called it the 'mosquito' and seriously looked like they laid fiberglass over the body panels each time they made it. ours had vents in the fenders, thiers had the INDENTS but they weren't even cut out. our bodies were ABS i believe and thiers were chopper gun fiberglass... yet they undercut our price by 200 per unit in some cases. <and for good reason.
we had REAL suspensions that worked. we tested and engineered the steering stops so they didn't flip when you turned. you could see the casting difference in the parts... on and on and on.
yet we still lost a TON of sales (look at Pep boys and the complete junk they sell) because of the price. but we got a lot of customers back a short time later when they realized the crap they bought and compared ours
Knocking off your ATV isn't as easy to knock off a hood.
so? they still knocked it off, down to the engine casting in some cases IIRC. <and got sued by Yamaha (who licenses out the casting for thier two strokes to alot of manufacturers)
Just making a point that 'you pay for what you get'! you wanna save 200 on an ATV to have the body crack apart and the suspension fail? go ahead!
you wanna save 400-500 on a hood (that weigth as much if not more than the stock hood btw)? go ahead, when the gaps make you look like a ricer, it's your own fault.
you pay for what you get.
that is why I feel buying used is still better than buying a knockoff. < not that I havent bought a replica (hello Version 2 bumper!) but the price different was enough for me to take the chance and accept the flaws. since 350 or 900+???.... yeah, big difference.
Just making a point that 'you pay for what you get'! you wanna save 200 on an ATV to have the body crack apart and the suspension fail? go ahead!
you wanna save 400-500 on a hood (that weigth as much if not more than the stock hood btw)? go ahead, when the gaps make you look like a ricer, it's your own fault.
you pay for what you get.
that is why I feel buying used is still better than buying a knockoff. < not that I havent bought a replica (hello Version 2 bumper!) but the price different was enough for me to take the chance and accept the flaws. since 350 or 900+???.... yeah, big difference.