you misunderstand. you cannot get a refund before Jim gets the hood back. that would be YOU having the hood and your money.

it works just like at a retail store:

(1) product returned and inspected
(2) money refunded

 

it's not through paypal. He issued a chargeback with his credit card company. Paypal and his CC company will determine if he has any merit for a dispute.

Jim

 

Nope. PP issued a refund to someone I sold a product to and the person never returned it. In fact the refund occured 6 months AFTER I sold it to them. PP told me it was up to me to get the item back (or something to that effect).

 

wow, that is messed up. I freaking get screwed by paypal when I never got my stuff and these aholes are scamming people. I swear they said that it had to be within a certain amount of time, like a month.

 

This guy obviously saw the other thread about Jim and assumed that he can just come on here and everyone would be on his side. What he needs to understand is that he shouldn't assume Jim was not gonna fix the problem for him just because of another thread. YOU NEED TO SEND HIM PICS MAN!!! This isn't costco! You need a reason to send something back and proof, especially when shipping is so expensive. It's not hard to put the damn hood back on and take pics. If you provide proof and Jim still doesn't do anything, then come back and talk. Otherwise, shut up.

 

+1. I was just going to post the same exact thing.

 

HELLO, if you had read through this thread you would see that I've not only read it, but I've been a part of it since the start. Jim always says that he will fix the problem, and I have no doubt in my mind he will get Seibon to take care of the problem........... eventually. This of course is where the problem is, it's not Seibons responsibility to take care of Jim's customer, it's Seibons responsibility to take care of Jim just like it's Jim's responsibility to take care of his customer. If Seibon took care of the problem in a reasonable time frame and had a "reasonable" return policy, Jim's method of having Seibon process all returns would be fine, and there wouldn't be threads like this. The issue is that doesn't seem to be happening. Furthermore if you read the terms of service from Carbon Limited they are essentially saying "we'll sell you parts, but once they are shipped, they are your problem and any returns will be a huge pain in the neck while you jump through hoops and the process will cost you money even if it's our fault" IE: 25% restocking fee on defective parts and the customer pays for shipping? Please; this isn't an example of customer service it's an example of "servicing the customer" (makes a hip thrusting action)

 

So I guess my assumption that these were fairly easy to get was wrong?

 

This debate about who is right or wrong about the whole situation could go on, citing the T&C and so on and so forth. How about the OP's admitted expectations? Highlighted above he says himself that he expected an aftermarket, replica part to fit like stock. That just won't happen, it is all a crap shoot with replicas. When dealing with modifying cars a certain amount of risk is being taken by the enthusiast that not all things work out perfectly.

 

this damn thing already!

 

Why is it too much to ask that an aftermarket part fit like OEM? Maybe I'm confused, but these parts aren't being custom made in a basement from memory by a sculptor, they are being made on a mold, and if the mold was made properly it should yield parts that bolt up, just like stock.

If I can take my hood off of my car and put it on your car and vice versa, why can't somebody make an aftermarket part that would work the same way? I don't think it's a matter of expectations being too high, I think it's a matter of customers accepting sub-standard (standard being defined as any part that simply bolts on as a direct OEM replacement) parts and dealing with issues of fitment to save a couple of bucks. If the customers were to hold the manufacturers of these parts to a higher standard, the parts the manufacturer makes would be made to that standard. It's a history of accepting poorly fitting parts that has created this blanket acceptance of parts that should yet do not "bolt on".

It's simple economics: You can find the cost of any item by using the one simple method. The cost of any item is defined by whatever the market will bear. If a perfectly fitting part cost $50 to manufacture and can be sold for $80 that net's the manufacturer $30 profit. If they loosen their tolerances to make the product quicker, or relax their quality control to let lesser products make it out the door and the cost to manufacture the part goes to $40 and they can still sell it for $75 then they have made $35 profit off of each piece sold and the lower price should increase volume to make the total profit better at the end of the day. However if the customers buying the product won't pay $75 for an potentially ill fitting product then the manufacturer is forced to make the more expensive product because there is no market for the cheaper product.


But this isn't about economics is it?

 

It's a very good point and I would expect it as well. Funny thing is that Seibon used to have a statement on their site that said that their products fit like OEM. It has been since taken off. Hmm...I wonder why????

 

You're right they are being made on a mold. But, REPLICA makers use the same mold over and over again. Just like if you were to make a copy from a copy, it won't have the same quality as the first copy. Now try making the 1000th copy of a copy and you will see a huge difference from the original. That is why people stress buying aftermarket parts from quality manufacturers and not replica makers. Replica manufacturers can offer their parts at a substantially lower price because they don't have to continually make brand new molds which would eat into their profits.

 

as long as victim's issue get resolve. He kept saying he got high iTrader rating but if you only care about getting pay first and not taking care the customer then this is a bad business man to deal with. Especially big amount of money that you people have to pay up front. With me, I like to deal with locals only with car parts. At least you get to meet the seller and the product up front instead waiting for the package. I think he does dropship only and his California pick up is not even his own shop ( He doesn't live at California), you can't pick up until he gets the moeny first. If that is the case you still have chance to get the damage product because the shop only do the shipping and they don't handle issues.

 

So, how would I as your average everyday consumer know the difference between a "quality manufacturer" and a "replica manufacturer". Is there a sign on the door? Is there a warning on the home page, or in the fine print somewhere behind a blind link that nobody knows about? ALL parts not manufactured by (in this case) Nissan are by definition aftermarket (anything not OEM is aftermarket) and as anyone will tell you replica is synonomous (sp?) with aftermarket. So what are you trying to say that XYZ carbon is better than Seibon? Ok, so what if it is what's the difference? Wherever you buy the part from expecting it to fit and perform the function for which it was designed is not expecting too much, it's expecting just enough.

The only reason you are trying to differentiate between quality aftermarket and replica aftermarket is so you don't have to admit that the OP was right about expecting it to fit.

 

Your not just making a point about a vendor jerking your chain, your slandering someones name when YOUR the one not willing to cooperate. So peoples should be allowed in here too.

 

Replica companies are as good as their measurement techniques and process capabilities. They are not going to receieve engineering drawings from Nissan or a hi-end aftermarket company, so they have to do their best to measure and replicate.

Process and Quality Control is the name of the game.

 

How do you know it didn't fit?

I personally don't believe a word out of this guys mouth. I think he changed his mind on the hood and figured he could just say it was defective and get a refund or maybe something happened to it at the body shop while it sat there from 1/10/07 to 2/28/07 when he decided to contact me. He could have sold it and is trying to make some quick money. I see no other reason pictures could not be sent. I dont believe the body shop took pictures of the fitment but couldn't get them uploaded, all you have to do is plug your camera into the computer and the screen pops up.

My point is, without pictures who knows what happened to his hood or if it even is defective.

 

I'm going to say that the OP is being way out of line. All Jim is asking for is proof that his product was defective. I also believe that the OP is trying to get his money back because he decided to go with the OEM instead. If you order a 3000 dollar big screen and you get it and the screen is caved in or wont work, do you expect the manufacturer to send you a new one or get a refund? YES. But do you think they are just gonna say "O **** my bad, lemme pay 500 for shipping the TV's before checking I check for a problem"? No, they send a tech out to inspect it and oh my, they find that your dumbass didnt plug it in, or its a simple fix. All you have to do is snap pictures of the damn hood, show that it doesnt fit, and it will get resolved alot faster. With you being so uncooperative, you are looking like you got caught in a lie and are trying to dig out by just slamming his name, hoping he will just get sick of you and give you a refund. I would have told you to suck my stick and to go **** yourself already when you denied to send proof.

And 50+ days. How many times have you ordered something for over $500 and didnt even open the box to look or test it out. I know that you would have had one of your boys come over and help lift it up just to test fit it.

 

Are you responding to my post or just trying to make a point? On at least 2 occasions I've whole heartedly supported the need for documented photographic proof of the issues with the fitment of the hood, furthermore I've never said anything in this post or any other stating that I thought the hood did or didn't fit. I'm speaking purely in generalities about the fitment issues that Methodrn stated are "normal" and "to be expected".

In your defense Jim I wholly agree that you should have received pictures of the fitment problems along with measurements of where the problems are, how significant they are, and what would need to be changed in order for the item to fit properly. I understand that the OP did not fulfill his end of the deal, and frankly more than one of his actions, (IE: rude PM's to various members) has made him look like a bit of a "douche" IMO. Perhaps he did change his mind about the hood, perhaps it was damaged at the body shop, perhaps the hood didn't fit for some other reason that is no fault of Seibon or Carbon LTD. He made reference to the capability of the body shop he had his car at, which holds exactly 0 sway with me. I know of a custom audio shop near my home that has been in buisness for 20 some years installing remote starts, car alarms, and other add on BS. I looked at them when I considered doing my car stereo and after seeing their operation, talking with the installers, and looking at what they had done in the past I decided that I wouldn't let them install a stereo in my worst enemies car. Anyone would be better served by taking their car to circuit city or best buy rather than that joint. It is experiences like this that tell me not to take the body shops word for it either. Agreed the inablility to upload pics is very suspect, and I would be mighty wary of it myself, however there are plenty of ways for you to take this losing hand and turn it into a winner.

I'm not saying you should give a refund sight unseen, I am however saying if I were you and I truly stood behind my product, I would tell the customer that I will send a call tag to get the hood picked up. I would pay to have the hood shipped back to me. I would personally inspect the hood for damages upon arrival, and determine if the hood is in fact defective was otherwise damaged while with the customer, or if the customer is just being ridiculous. If the customer had a valid complaint, I would refund the money make my apologies for the experience and move on. Then I would deal with Seibon to get the replacement or refund from my side on my time.

If the customer was just being a jerk, and the hood was not found to be defective, and he had no documentation to prove otherwise I would refund his money, less return shipping and the 25% restocking fee. Then I would sell the hood to another customer for 10-15% off the normal price as an "open box" item and put the additional 10-15% profit in my pocket for the trouble. The jerk customer would probably still be upset, but that's the breaks, you can't please them all.

There are ways to have both parties win in cases like this, but winning starts with customer service, and good communication while working out a mutually beneficial arrangement.