APS single TUrbo? yes or no
10-18-2006, 10:19 AM
#121
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Originally Posted by Oleg
It is a bit too late to jump in on this, but anyway...
This "archaic quasi" kit is superior engineering w/out over-engineering.
You can certainly get a tuner kit and slap on a full fuel return kit, top of the line EMS, no problem, your installer will love you for it. The only issue is that you would have wasted an absolute crapload of $$ to buy headroom that you will not ever need, unless you have a built motor in mind. Then you will be a real idiot b/c you could have spent that $$ on suspension, brakes or a little vacation (assuming that you have non-car related interests).
The APS TT is exactly what it is, a 100% bolt on kit for a stock motor, which, BTW what all of the kit manufacturers claim about their products.
An APS TT upgrade can be done for less the 10G, a any tuner kit, with a full FRS, UTEC, injectors, etc will probably be somewhere in the 12-13K range. That's all.
My two cents...
This "archaic quasi" kit is superior engineering w/out over-engineering.
You can certainly get a tuner kit and slap on a full fuel return kit, top of the line EMS, no problem, your installer will love you for it. The only issue is that you would have wasted an absolute crapload of $$ to buy headroom that you will not ever need, unless you have a built motor in mind. Then you will be a real idiot b/c you could have spent that $$ on suspension, brakes or a little vacation (assuming that you have non-car related interests).
The APS TT is exactly what it is, a 100% bolt on kit for a stock motor, which, BTW what all of the kit manufacturers claim about their products.
An APS TT upgrade can be done for less the 10G, a any tuner kit, with a full FRS, UTEC, injectors, etc will probably be somewhere in the 12-13K range. That's all.
My two cents...
You really don't have a point here. All of the kits on the market fulfill their intended purpose. It's up to the consumer as to what their goals are and which kit meets them.
10-18-2006, 10:28 AM
#122
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Originally Posted by taurran
Hell, even APS doesn't recommend running their TT kit over 400whp on a stock motor...
10-18-2006, 11:04 AM
#123
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^ and to add to that, they realize the stock internals are limited. If I was APS, I too would also not recommend going to far on stock internals. IMO, you are taking a chance with your motor after a certain whp goal. I don't care if you have the best tuner in the world, you just never know what can happen. Too many inconsistant situations that would make me nervous past 400whp.
10-18-2006, 12:16 PM
#125
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Originally Posted by taurran
All of the kits on the market are 100% fully operational on the stock motor. The only arguable exception would be the greddy kit, but I've known people that have run it for a good period at 5.5psi without problems. People only run into issues when they start raising the boost and pushing the kit beyond its intended application without taking precautions. Hell, even APS doesn't recommend running their TT kit over 400whp on a stock motor...
You really don't have a point here. All of the kits on the market fulfill their intended purpose. It's up to the consumer as to what their goals are and which kit meets them.
You really don't have a point here. All of the kits on the market fulfill their intended purpose. It's up to the consumer as to what their goals are and which kit meets them.
It still serves it's purpose very well, better then most "other" "complete" kits out there and even with those "sub-par" components can create more reliable power then the stock internals can handle.
And whatever you can argue, there is no way in any hell that an ST setup would make as much power then a TT, psi for psi, or more area under curve for that matter. That is why for most people the TT vs. ST desicion is $$ biased (unles they are building a show car and want to show off that turbo).
If you wish to stay frugal and get an ST kit, in a perfect world,when same support cold be offered for both APS and TN, APS ST wins hands down.
Unfortunately in a real world the first thing to be considered is what can your local tuner support. And despite his occasional childish behavior, the MRC guy is golden when it comes to that.
Hell, if I had any plans to keep the Z I'd get the APS ST from him by now...
Last edited by Oleg; 10-18-2006 at 12:50 PM.
10-18-2006, 12:31 PM
#126
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Originally Posted by synth19
^ and to add to that, they realize the stock internals are limited. If I was APS, I too would also not recommend going to far on stock internals. IMO, you are taking a chance with your motor after a certain whp goal. I don't care if you have the best tuner in the world, you just never know what can happen. Too many inconsistant situations that would make me nervous past 400whp.
Last edited by BrianLG35C; 10-18-2006 at 12:35 PM.
10-18-2006, 12:39 PM
#127
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Originally Posted by BrianLG35C
APS in last 6 months, has making a point to not go over 360-380whp on stock block with their TT kit.
That is completely false. Before I got any type of FI I asked Peter several times about what they recommend as far as a safe power amount for the stock block. He has stuck by his 380whp rule the entire time...even up until a month ago. If you search way back he even states this in a couple of threads. Its totally up to the customer if they decide to go higher..
10-18-2006, 02:55 PM
#129
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Originally Posted by original786
wow i just wanted a simple opinions, i didnt mean for heated conversation to start...
sorry guys
sorry guys
10-18-2006, 03:38 PM
#132
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I'll just be short and to the point here.
The reflash works fine for its intended purpose. If you want a quality (non archaic) EMS and a real deal fuel system, there is a tuner kit and soon to be stage 1.5 kit.
So can any other turbo kit on the market.
No kidding, genius. That's the simple nature of turbochargers. PSI doesn't mean jack, CFM's do. Twins are by nature more efficient and flow more, especially at low boost levels. This is why at 9psi you will always make more power on a TT.
However, this doesn't keep the ST setups from putting down healthy amounts of torque.
Yeah, if you like the design of it, which I don't. I must not be the only one as there seems to be a surplus of APS ST's on the shelves that were thrown in the blue light special bin lately.
And, unfortunately for you this isn't a perfect world. If it were, you would either be driving a FI Z or not be in this forum at all. God knows we would all prefer the latter.
What are you even doing in this forum anymore? Sh*t or get off the pot. 
Originally Posted by Oleg
Actually I DO have a point and it is in responce to your statement about the "archaic" EMS (vs. the mighty TN reflash), the "quasi" FRS (vs. total lack thereof on the TN kit) and etc.
Originally Posted by Oleg
It still serves it's purpose very well, better then most "other" "complete" kits out there and even with those "sub-par" components can create more reliable power then the stock internals can handle.
Originally Posted by Oleg
And whatever you can argue, there is no way in any hell that an ST setup would make as much power then a TT, psi for psi, or more area under curve for that matter. That is why for most people the TT vs. ST desicion is $$ biased (unles they are building a show car and want to show off that turbo).
However, this doesn't keep the ST setups from putting down healthy amounts of torque.
Originally Posted by Oleg
If you wish to stay frugal and get an ST kit, in a perfect world,when same support cold be offered for both APS and TN, APS ST wins hands down.
And, unfortunately for you this isn't a perfect world. If it were, you would either be driving a FI Z or not be in this forum at all. God knows we would all prefer the latter.
Originally Posted by Oleg
Unfortunately in a real world the first thing to be considered is what can your local tuner support. And despite his occasional childish behavior, the MRC guy is golden when it comes to that.
Hell, if I had any plans to keep the Z I'd get the APS ST from him by now...
Hell, if I had any plans to keep the Z I'd get the APS ST from him by now...
10-18-2006, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by sugarspunZ
so what kit is better? APS ST OR TN ST
We all know how that goes...
10-18-2006, 03:47 PM
#134
Originally Posted by taurran
Neither is better. In fact, they are both good kits. APS owners, for the most part, are too arrogant for their own good. They bring these arguments upon themselves then complain and point fingers later.
We all know how that goes...
We all know how that goes...
10-18-2006, 04:19 PM
#135
Originally Posted by taurran
Neither is better. In fact, they are both good kits. APS owners, for the most part, are too arrogant for their own good. They bring these arguments upon themselves then complain and point fingers later.
We all know how that goes...
We all know how that goes...
taurran, im hurt by that statement.
10-18-2006, 04:53 PM
#137
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Originally Posted by taurran
Yeah, if you like the design of it, which I don't. I must not be the only one as there seems to be a surplus of APS ST's on the shelves that were thrown in the blue light special bin lately.
Originally Posted by taurran
And, unfortunately for you this isn't a perfect world. If it were, you would either be driving a FI Z or not be in this forum at all. God knows we would all prefer the latter.
Originally Posted by taurran
What are you even doing in this forum anymore? Sh*t or get off the pot.
I myself, however, will achieve my goals through an LS2 car, which can make a whole of a lot more power then the Z bolt-on to bolt-on. Simple as that, I have a few other real financial commitments that simply cannot allow me to justify spending almost twice as much $$ to continue the Z project.
10-18-2006, 05:02 PM
#138
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Originally Posted by zman1910
That is completely false. Before I got any type of FI I asked Peter several times about what they recommend as far as a safe power amount for the stock block. He has stuck by his 380whp rule the entire time...even up until a month ago. If you search way back he even states this in a couple of threads. Its totally up to the customer if they decide to go higher..
, we're splitting hairs here but...03-03-2005, 08:16 PM #3
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Re: APS TT ,nismo cams ,what about internals ???
If you have 93 or better octane fuel available and you're happy running around 380 to 400 WHP (around 8 PSI turbo presure) I'd recommend you consider staying with the stock pistons and comp ratio, this higher comp ratio definitely provides much better off boost response and quicker turbo spooling under boost imho.
As long as you have correct engine tuning for the fuel octane your using I'd stick with the stock pistons, they're much quieter and easier to live with on a daily basis.
Of course if you are planning to build a monster 500 + WHP then I would definitely go with lower comp forged pistons, hope this helps.
Peter
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and more recently...
05-31-2006, 08:41 PM #20
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It's always possible to tune the engine to a higher or lower power level, at APS we custom dyno tune every engine we'd never allow a stock TT engine to leave with over 380 whp. As I said previously, if the owner/tuner decide to tune for higher whp power then you have to accept the possibility of a rod/piston failure, that's life with over 400 + whp with a VQ engine.
Peter
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***To me, in 2006, Peter strongly suggests not to go over 380whp. But not so back in 2005. But then again I haven't heard of anyone blowing their motor running 400whp or less on an APS TT with stock internals.
10-18-2006, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Nismo350ZRT
Oleg, stick around man, project GTO sounds exciting. It'll be cool when you get it finished and run against some FI Zs. 
Last edited by Oleg; 10-18-2006 at 05:25 PM.