vortech FAQ: read this before asking vortech questions
01-09-2010, 11:08 AM
#701
With my 2.87 and dw 440's i was ok and sitting about 85% duty cycle. That was all the intake stuff, headers, test pipes, full exhaust. mid 80's for duty cycle is as much as you would want to push them. So basically with 440's you will be at your limit and no headroom. That will work but if you do something like cams or whatnot then you won't have enough fuel. If you are using osiris for tuning then I would just get the 600's. They will tune perfectly fine and won't work your injectors as hard. The less something has to work the longer it will last. That is also the reason for doing a T-trim.
Like stated, the harder you push something the faster it wears out. So if the Sc trim is pushing 400hp and working 90% of it's max then it will wear out faster than a t-trim pushing 400hp and being at 60% of it's max. That being said, you will make 400hp just fine with full exhuast and some mods on the Sc trim. The t-trim will have a better power curve and will run the air cooler thus decreasing intake temps and possible detonation. Either way, you sound set on the Sc trim.
Also, Oldman350z and Str8 both sent a website that showed intercoolers. Those nice big intercoolers were only around 300$ and would flow perfectly for a t-trim. A 700$ intercooler over the top.
Like stated, the harder you push something the faster it wears out. So if the Sc trim is pushing 400hp and working 90% of it's max then it will wear out faster than a t-trim pushing 400hp and being at 60% of it's max. That being said, you will make 400hp just fine with full exhuast and some mods on the Sc trim. The t-trim will have a better power curve and will run the air cooler thus decreasing intake temps and possible detonation. Either way, you sound set on the Sc trim.
Also, Oldman350z and Str8 both sent a website that showed intercoolers. Those nice big intercoolers were only around 300$ and would flow perfectly for a t-trim. A 700$ intercooler over the top.
how much whp were you pushing with ur mods when u had 440cc? and what about now with 600cc? care to list out ur setup?
thanks!
that's a good THEORY. It never works though. People will eventually grow out of what they have and when you are maxed it means you need a huge increase in cost for an upgrade. Not only do you pay for the upgrade parts later down the road but you eat the cost of the lesser parts you already purchased that no longer need.
if i had a 6MT, then my FI setup would've been another story..
01-09-2010, 11:15 AM
#702
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that's a good THEORY. It never works though. People will eventually grow out of what they have and when you are maxed it means you need a huge increase in cost for an upgrade. Not only do you pay for the upgrade parts later down the road but you eat the cost of the lesser parts you already purchased that no longer need.
You are saying, get a T-trim and 3.12 pulley, cuz he will want it more. Ok. If guy wants to upgrade 2.87 pulley later, what you gonna do with 3.12? isn't wasting a money? You said 600inj are "enough" but you are saying he may wants more power. Will that 600inj can reuse, if he wants to go 500whp? or 600whp? or maybe big turbo?
Whatever you are saying doesn't make sense. Why not go fully build NOW then? no?
Yeah, for this guy's deal from vendor, T-trim sounds good to go. BUT he wants to stay with what he wants. And his list doesn't sound bad for 400whp. No need give a headche to newbie that stuff that he doesn't " NEED" for his goal. maybe your future need T-trim, maybe he might needs Turbo later. Nobody knows.
01-09-2010, 11:24 AM
#703
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bigc, i'm pretty sure you fill it at the dipstick. I doubt either way will make a difference though.
Max, auto cars are good. Just spend some money on upgrading the valvebodies and they are great. You could also do a swap. Mr.PharmD on here had the swap done on his. he said it wasn't too expensive either.
Also, I never had my car dyno'ed on the 440's since i was always upgrading. I will finally have it dyno tuned in the spring but i have a full built motor with heads and all that. I also went from 440's to 800's. Oldman350z was right at 400hp with pretty much the same setup i had (and what you are putting on) and he is using DW 440 injectors.
Mine before the built motor with a 2.87 pulley at 11.5psi (max pressure at redline) pulled a little harder than a LS2 GTO with headers, full exhaust, and tuned. We went from a 40mph roll and mine would pull on him slightly but not much. He was probably putting around 400 or high 300's.
Max, auto cars are good. Just spend some money on upgrading the valvebodies and they are great. You could also do a swap. Mr.PharmD on here had the swap done on his. he said it wasn't too expensive either.
Also, I never had my car dyno'ed on the 440's since i was always upgrading. I will finally have it dyno tuned in the spring but i have a full built motor with heads and all that. I also went from 440's to 800's. Oldman350z was right at 400hp with pretty much the same setup i had (and what you are putting on) and he is using DW 440 injectors.
Mine before the built motor with a 2.87 pulley at 11.5psi (max pressure at redline) pulled a little harder than a LS2 GTO with headers, full exhaust, and tuned. We went from a 40mph roll and mine would pull on him slightly but not much. He was probably putting around 400 or high 300's.
01-09-2010, 11:28 AM
#704
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You are saying, get a T-trim and 3.12 pulley, cuz he will want it more. Ok. If guy wants to upgrade 2.87 pulley later, what you gonna do with 3.12? isn't wasting a money? You said 600inj are "enough" but you are saying he may wants more power. Will that 600inj can reuse, if he wants to go 500whp? or 600whp? or maybe big turbo?
Whatever you are saying doesn't make sense. Why not go fully build NOW then? no?
Yeah, for this guy's deal from vendor, T-trim sounds good to go. BUT he wants to stay with what he wants. And his list doesn't sound bad for 400whp. No need give a headche to newbie that stuff that he doesn't " NEED" for his goal. maybe your future need T-trim, maybe he might needs Turbo later. Nobody knows.
Whatever you are saying doesn't make sense. Why not go fully build NOW then? no?
Yeah, for this guy's deal from vendor, T-trim sounds good to go. BUT he wants to stay with what he wants. And his list doesn't sound bad for 400whp. No need give a headche to newbie that stuff that he doesn't " NEED" for his goal. maybe your future need T-trim, maybe he might needs Turbo later. Nobody knows.
And there is a huge difference in going full built to just selecting a t-trim blower. You are exaggerating a little there. Having a blower to get another 25hp 3 months down the road is a completley different story than putting 20k into a car to get it over 500hp. If the t-trim costs a couple hundred to just buy now then he'll save a few grand if he decides he needs that little extra next summer. That's too large of a cost saving to not go for it.
01-09-2010, 11:31 AM
#705
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Oh might search around RFS. Search under cjm's posts and FI section, you might get an idea to have or not. I had DW 600 with GTM stage 0 rfs, did put down numbers on my sig ( at uprev )
01-09-2010, 10:49 PM
#708
i just finished changing the fluid. as advertised, its very quick and easy. a few observations are below:
- the vortech owner's manual is adamant that we not overfill the blower. i double checked how much fluid came out versus how much was in the refill bottle, and, no surprise, not all 4 oz came out. on the refill, i put in just under a full bottle and will double-check the level after the fluid settles overnight.
- the dipstick did not seem very accurate. i checked the level after i drained the blower and it still showed fluid in the crosshatched area. i checked the level again when i had put in half a bottle of the new oil...same thing. yes, i cleaned the dipstick before checking the level
anyway, as mentioned above, i'll check everything again in the morning after the oil has settled.
- that little AN plug on the end of the drain hose was a bi!ch to break loose. should be much easier going forward.
- the vortech owner's manual is adamant that we not overfill the blower. i double checked how much fluid came out versus how much was in the refill bottle, and, no surprise, not all 4 oz came out. on the refill, i put in just under a full bottle and will double-check the level after the fluid settles overnight.
- the dipstick did not seem very accurate. i checked the level after i drained the blower and it still showed fluid in the crosshatched area. i checked the level again when i had put in half a bottle of the new oil...same thing. yes, i cleaned the dipstick before checking the level
anyway, as mentioned above, i'll check everything again in the morning after the oil has settled.- that little AN plug on the end of the drain hose was a bi!ch to break loose. should be much easier going forward.
01-11-2010, 09:50 AM
#709
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three questions about the t-trim:
are there pulleys available that will make around 400whp with the t-trim on a 350z with stock block and the usual smaller modifications?
if so what will the max torque be?
and what will the torque curve look like compared to the v3 sc-trim?
thnx!
are there pulleys available that will make around 400whp with the t-trim on a 350z with stock block and the usual smaller modifications?
if so what will the max torque be?
and what will the torque curve look like compared to the v3 sc-trim?
thnx!
01-11-2010, 10:01 AM
#710
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three questions about the t-trim:
are there pulleys available that will make around 400whp with the t-trim on a 350z with stock block and the usual smaller modifications?
if so what will the max torque be?
and what will the torque curve look like compared to the v3 sc-trim?
thnx!
are there pulleys available that will make around 400whp with the t-trim on a 350z with stock block and the usual smaller modifications?
if so what will the max torque be?
and what will the torque curve look like compared to the v3 sc-trim?
thnx!
no way of predicting torque. Even the same car can pull different numbers on each dyno run. I think the norm with most vortech kits are going to be similar torque max as hp (just at a lower rpm for peak)
again hard to predict torque curve. I think it will probably be very similar to the sc trim. There won't be some drastic difference becuz they work primarily the same.
01-12-2010, 02:33 PM
#711
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You have a PM Cory, please get back to me. I would like to fix whatever you feel I lied to you about. Whatever it was it was completely unintentional. Talk to you soon, thanks.
Like it was said before. For anyone who doesn't know. Here is the Warranty info on Vortech kits.
Warranty Information
<dl><dt> 1-Year Supercharger Limited Warranty </dt><dd> Included with all superchargers except race/heavy-duty models. More information (PDF) . (This means no warranty on T-Trim chargers)
</dd><dt> 3-Year Supercharger Limited Warranty </dt><dd> Included with engine-oil-fed superchargers if purchased with a complete street-legal system. Not available with tuner kits. Available with V-3 systems for an additional $75.00. More information (PDF) . </dd><dt> 3-Year/36,000-Mile Powertrain Limited Warranty </dt><dd> Available with complete street legal systems sold and installed by a Vortech Top-Tier Installer. Not available with tuner kits. More information . </dd></dl>ANY USE OF NON SUPPLIED STOCK SIZE PULLEY WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY
oh ya, like BigC said, 3.12 or 2.87 will void the warranty. T-trim comes with a 3.12 so the warranty is ok for it, but the Sc comes with a 3.33 so changing it down to 3.12 would void warranty.
How long is warranty? i think like 6 months or something so i wouldn't even worry about it. It will be up before you would have a failure anyways so might as well void it from the start.
How long is warranty? i think like 6 months or something so i wouldn't even worry about it. It will be up before you would have a failure anyways so might as well void it from the start.
Also, to clarify. We had typos in our sheet going out. All T-Trim chargers are V1, this means they are all fed oil via the oil pan.
Last edited by Dan@Assaultech; 01-12-2010 at 02:46 PM.
01-12-2010, 03:08 PM
#715
^did a work around and was able to delete it..
sorry Dan, i didn't ask you this because i didn't wanna bother you with too many questions.
here goes:
guys, what are real-world differences between SC-trim v2 and v3?
why choose one over the other?
my final parts list before sending out the money:
-Vortech Tuner Kit, 2003-2006 350Z/G35 w/ V2 or V3 SQ SC-Trim & Charge Cooler, Satin
-Koyo V-Core 36mm Slim
-Deatschwerks 600cc Injectors
-2.87 Pulley
-Walbro Pump & Install Kit
-NGK One Step Colder
-B&M Tranny Oil Cooler
is there anything else i should consider buying before going ahead?
sorry Dan, i didn't ask you this because i didn't wanna bother you with too many questions.
here goes:
guys, what are real-world differences between SC-trim v2 and v3?
why choose one over the other?
my final parts list before sending out the money:
-Vortech Tuner Kit, 2003-2006 350Z/G35 w/ V2 or V3 SQ SC-Trim & Charge Cooler, Satin
-Koyo V-Core 36mm Slim
-Deatschwerks 600cc Injectors
-2.87 Pulley
-Walbro Pump & Install Kit
-NGK One Step Colder
-B&M Tranny Oil Cooler
is there anything else i should consider buying before going ahead?
*available locally*
01-12-2010, 03:33 PM
#717
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v2 uses engine oil and drains into the cars oil pan
v3 is self lubricated. No feed lines and no drain. oil is changed separately
On your list: engine management. the vortech tuner doesn't come with an EMS. I think you mentioned it earlier in the thread, you just didn't put it in the list so i figured i would ask.
v3 is self lubricated. No feed lines and no drain. oil is changed separately
On your list: engine management. the vortech tuner doesn't come with an EMS. I think you mentioned it earlier in the thread, you just didn't put it in the list so i figured i would ask.
01-12-2010, 03:49 PM
#719
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um, as far as i know the v2 and v3 will produce the same power. The only difference is the lubrication system. I have never used a v3 but from what i've read and see with people's setups that seems to be the case. Someone that has used both chime in if i'm incorrect.
01-12-2010, 03:50 PM
#720
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Also, it always easier to just change your oil every 3k miles. If you change your engine oil every 3k miles and have to change the supercharger oil every 7.5k, it doesn't really line up or overlap in timing.
The choice is yours, however I still recommend the V2 to all customers.
There are exactly ZERO differences in power.