View Poll Results: the right EMS
HKS
61
89.71%
Greddy Ultimate
7
10.29%
Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll
the right EMS
07-04-2007, 11:54 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by westpak
This is from your experience in tuning cars to that horsepower with a Utec?
The Utec can be tuned for idle and cruise on the 0% column and for wide open throttle up to the 100% column but the issue comes in with the in between, with only 10 load columns you are limited on how much boost can be tuned in there, if you want to go for 15 psi you either have to have huge jumps in psi between columns or start your tuned psi higher around 5psi, so up to 5psi you are running off column 0%. To give a simple example with the Fcon you can tune from -11 to 20 psi easily using one map and 1 psi per load site or break up differently if you want.
It is that in between section and hot starts that people have issues with the Utec, if people only idled/cruised or WOT then it would be fine, the Fcon just gives you that ability to address all of the areas. Then you add the Air Fuel feedback for constant af adjustment and the ability to run low impedance injectors and it becomes a better option.
As for running 1000cc injectors, yes not all need it but since it can handle them why not, that way when people want to tune to 600, 700 whatever they want you just have to tune the Fcon and not have to change injectors.
There are many excuses or arguments to justify going with a Utec for the high power end and satisfy yourself that you made the right choice, but there is better out there.
The Utec can be tuned for idle and cruise on the 0% column and for wide open throttle up to the 100% column but the issue comes in with the in between, with only 10 load columns you are limited on how much boost can be tuned in there, if you want to go for 15 psi you either have to have huge jumps in psi between columns or start your tuned psi higher around 5psi, so up to 5psi you are running off column 0%. To give a simple example with the Fcon you can tune from -11 to 20 psi easily using one map and 1 psi per load site or break up differently if you want.
It is that in between section and hot starts that people have issues with the Utec, if people only idled/cruised or WOT then it would be fine, the Fcon just gives you that ability to address all of the areas. Then you add the Air Fuel feedback for constant af adjustment and the ability to run low impedance injectors and it becomes a better option.
As for running 1000cc injectors, yes not all need it but since it can handle them why not, that way when people want to tune to 600, 700 whatever they want you just have to tune the Fcon and not have to change injectors.
There are many excuses or arguments to justify going with a Utec for the high power end and satisfy yourself that you made the right choice, but there is better out there.
Sure there's always better, but I'd rather go another direction that doesn't leave me locked out of a car and at the whim of a dealer who just wants to charge me money at every possible chance. There's getting the best and then just getting something that's not really needed in order to line someone else's pockets. He doesn't NEED an fcon.
Oh, and how many FCON equipped cars have you personally tuned? I thought you just sold parts out of your garage somewhere. You act as if you're some professional tuner. Maybe you play guitar or something, because the last I heard you didn't actually tune FCONS.
Last edited by taurran; 07-04-2007 at 11:57 AM.
07-04-2007, 12:36 PM
#22
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well we could always do a poll and find out how many motors have been blown on the utec VS fcon and also how many people have went from utec to fcon?
honestly the whole money lining thing may be somewhat true but the way i see it is you get what you pay for. yeah the fcon requires certified tuners.. which means they know what they are doing.. no doubt about it. or you can take your chances with tuning the utec in somebodies back yard shop with a dyno.
chances are the great tunes on the utec probably even come from HKS certified tuners..
back to the OP. what is your budget and what are your goals
honestly the whole money lining thing may be somewhat true but the way i see it is you get what you pay for. yeah the fcon requires certified tuners.. which means they know what they are doing.. no doubt about it. or you can take your chances with tuning the utec in somebodies back yard shop with a dyno.
chances are the great tunes on the utec probably even come from HKS certified tuners..
back to the OP. what is your budget and what are your goals
07-04-2007, 01:12 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by taurran
I'm aware of this yes, it still doesn't mean it's required for those power levels. Maybe the OP should speak up on his budget.
Sure there's always better, but I'd rather go another direction that doesn't leave me locked out of a car and at the whim of a dealer who just wants to charge me money at every possible chance. There's getting the best and then just getting something that's not really needed in order to line someone else's pockets. He doesn't NEED an fcon.
Oh, and how many FCON equipped cars have you personally tuned? I thought you just sold parts out of your garage somewhere. You act as if you're some professional tuner. Maybe you play guitar or something, because the last I heard you didn't actually tune FCONS.
Sure there's always better, but I'd rather go another direction that doesn't leave me locked out of a car and at the whim of a dealer who just wants to charge me money at every possible chance. There's getting the best and then just getting something that's not really needed in order to line someone else's pockets. He doesn't NEED an fcon.
Oh, and how many FCON equipped cars have you personally tuned? I thought you just sold parts out of your garage somewhere. You act as if you're some professional tuner. Maybe you play guitar or something, because the last I heard you didn't actually tune FCONS.
My car is tuned with Fcon and I did it myself. I have a business relation with Japtrix on the parts side as well as I have done some of the initial training and tuning on Z's. I have been involved in a lot of the Z stuff at the shop because mine was the first one and most of the mods have been done on it so I/we have learned with mine, I have done all of the work on my car including building the engine.I attended Unichip training when Japtrix first got into the APS and for that reason I tuned some of the first cars while the guys learned it, I also tuned my car when it had the Greddy emanage and as I mentioned I tuned my car with the Fcon because I pursued the HKS dealership for Japtrix and mine is the first one so I did all of the research and learning on it.
So the shop and tuning is not my full time job but I have done my share of it and driven the cars with different EMS's. So before spreading BS find out the truth.
07-04-2007, 01:22 PM
#25
Originally Posted by westpak
Well I am not sure where you got that from sounds like more idle unfounded gossip, my garage is full of parts but all off of my cars My car is tuned with Fcon and I did it myself. I have a business relation with Japtrix on the parts side as well as I have done some of the initial training and tuning on Z's. I have been involved in a lot of the Z stuff at the shop because mine was the first one and most of the mods have been done on it so I/we have learned with mine, I have done all of the work on my car including building the engine.
I attended Unichip training when Japtrix first got into the APS and for that reason I tuned some of the first cars while the guys learned it, I also tuned my car when it had the Greddy emanage and as I mentioned I tuned my car with the Fcon because I pursued the HKS dealership for Japtrix and mine is the first one so I did all of the research and learning on it.
So the shop and tuning is not my full time job but I have done my share of it and driven the cars with different EMS's. So before spreading BS find out the truth.
My car is tuned with Fcon and I did it myself. I have a business relation with Japtrix on the parts side as well as I have done some of the initial training and tuning on Z's. I have been involved in a lot of the Z stuff at the shop because mine was the first one and most of the mods have been done on it so I/we have learned with mine, I have done all of the work on my car including building the engine.I attended Unichip training when Japtrix first got into the APS and for that reason I tuned some of the first cars while the guys learned it, I also tuned my car when it had the Greddy emanage and as I mentioned I tuned my car with the Fcon because I pursued the HKS dealership for Japtrix and mine is the first one so I did all of the research and learning on it.
So the shop and tuning is not my full time job but I have done my share of it and driven the cars with different EMS's. So before spreading BS find out the truth.
07-04-2007, 01:39 PM
#26
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Uh...the Fcon is better...DUH...
It gives the user a completely customizable interface that the Utec can't compete with. The scalability is amazing. Really Taurran, the op asked for opinions (which he got) and you go on the attack. Your insulting him was totally unnecessary and unsolicited. I know there's no one else I trust with my car than Westpak and the guys at Japtrix.
It gives the user a completely customizable interface that the Utec can't compete with. The scalability is amazing. Really Taurran, the op asked for opinions (which he got) and you go on the attack. Your insulting him was totally unnecessary and unsolicited. I know there's no one else I trust with my car than Westpak and the guys at Japtrix.
07-04-2007, 01:46 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by doug
why even waste your time with an explanation.. little girls at their tea parties will always spew idle and uninformed Gossip
07-04-2007, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by westpak
LOL I know, I know, but there are so many empty headed idiots running around this forum that they would believe him.
I never argued that the FCON was considered "better" as far as features go, only that the OP didn't need to waste his money on one for that power level. I'm glad you were able to jump on this thread to make a sale. I'm guessing you'd make at least $1000-2000 more in profit simply by selling him the FCON and larger injectors. This community as a whole seems to revolve around who's the best salesman and who can pressure the consumer into spening the most.
Besides, westpak is quite fond of passively insulting and calling out certain people on this forums on a regular basis. Any argument he's involved in was most likely brought on my his own "attack".
07-04-2007, 05:35 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by taurran
That's fine because I think you're very good at embellishing things. You'd have everyone here believe you owned Japtrix, even though you only sold parts for them as a "business relationship". I'm sure they sent you to train on the unit as well, seeing as you must tune all the cars that go through Japtrix. I'm also sure all the empty headed idiots as you'd so put it would believe you too.
I never argued that the FCON was considered "better" as far as features go, only that the OP didn't need to waste his money on one for that power level. I'm glad you were able to jump on this thread to make a sale. I'm guessing you'd make at least $1000-2000 more in profit simply by selling him the FCON and larger injectors. This community as a whole seems to revolve around who's the best salesman and who can pressure the consumer into spening the most.
Besides, westpak is quite fond of passively insulting and calling out certain people on this forums on a regular basis. Any argument he's involved in was most likely brought on my his own "attack".
I never argued that the FCON was considered "better" as far as features go, only that the OP didn't need to waste his money on one for that power level. I'm glad you were able to jump on this thread to make a sale. I'm guessing you'd make at least $1000-2000 more in profit simply by selling him the FCON and larger injectors. This community as a whole seems to revolve around who's the best salesman and who can pressure the consumer into spening the most.
Besides, westpak is quite fond of passively insulting and calling out certain people on this forums on a regular basis. Any argument he's involved in was most likely brought on my his own "attack".
I never told anyone I owned Japtrix, if people made that assumption I can't help it, I do not tune all of the cars, the shop is more than just a 350Z/G35 shop, I just got involved due to the 350Z and new things coming out for it.
As for jumping in here for a sale, I just did so to give my opinion knowing what I know, how could I make a sale, the guy doesn't live here. So just stick to the point of the thread and try to control yourself and refrain from the usual personal attacks.
Last edited by westpak; 07-04-2007 at 05:49 PM.
07-04-2007, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by westpak
Well you and some others are very good at turning to personal attacks when there is nothing left a real sign of maturity.
I never told anyone I owned Japtrix, if people made that assumption I can't help it, I do not tune all of the cars, the shop is more than just a 350Z/G35 shop, I just got involved due to the 350Z and new things coming out for it.
As for jumping in here for a sale, I just did so to give my opinion knowing what I know, how could I make a sale, the guy doesn't live here. So just stick to the point of the thread and try to control yourself and refrain from the usual personal attacks.
I never told anyone I owned Japtrix, if people made that assumption I can't help it, I do not tune all of the cars, the shop is more than just a 350Z/G35 shop, I just got involved due to the 350Z and new things coming out for it.
As for jumping in here for a sale, I just did so to give my opinion knowing what I know, how could I make a sale, the guy doesn't live here. So just stick to the point of the thread and try to control yourself and refrain from the usual personal attacks.
Arrogance is another. Don't get so defensive because people know you're a parts salesman and not a tuner.
Originally Posted by doug
a wise man once said its better to let people think you are a fool.. than to open your mouth and remove all doubt
The OP isn't even reading or responding, so this thread has more than run its course. Get your parting cracks in before it drops off the list.
07-04-2007, 06:34 PM
#36
Originally Posted by doug
a wise man once said its better to let people think you are a fool.. than to open your mouth and remove all doubt
A closed mind is like a closed book; just a block of wood
Things that make you go HMMM
07-04-2007, 06:36 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by clemlover15
can't we all get a long or someone sell me their Fcon? either way
07-04-2007, 06:39 PM
#39
Originally Posted by r0mey
Chinese Proverbs also says
A closed mind is like a closed book; just a block of wood
Things that make you go HMMM
A closed mind is like a closed book; just a block of wood
Things that make you go HMMM
reminds me of another chinese proverb
He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever.
07-04-2007, 06:39 PM
#40
Originally Posted by taurran
You need to talk to one of the known dealers. HKS has such a tight grip on distribution and tuning of the units that it's tough to get one otherwise. I have seen some used units for sale in the marketplace. Buy, what good would it do if it was locked and you had to drive 500 miles to a shop that can tune it?
Tell us why you mad son T-T-T-T-T-Tell us why you mad?