Remember, Civics will always go above 185mph and own Ferraris and Vettes. The newspaper article said one kid said his car did so.

 

I'm not going with an AEM solution. Didn't say I was. But it's interesting that I've seen 1000+ whp Supra's using them. Oh that's right, AEM makes craptastic EMS solutions I guess...

The HKS F-Con basic package installed and tuned by several vendors on this board is roughly $3k (give or take a few bucks). That doesn't include the knock-amp, so NO timing retard on knock... The F-Con "complete" package goes for roughly $3500-$4000 from most of the same vendors. STILL doesn't include the knock amp . At that, you've still got to pay for the install and tune...

So, let say that you get a great deal and get EVERYTHING for the F-Con. Knock amp and all. Installed and tuned by one of the 350Z specialists on the board for a rock bottom price of $4,000. Which isn't going to happen, but hey, we'll just speculate.

You're now left with a complete stand-alone EMS that if you EVER have a problem with, you can't call up the vendor, plug in your laptop, and diagnose over the phone. ***** no. You've got to trailor you busted @ss car to the shop for a diagnosis / re-tune / etc... All for the rock bottom price of MORE than Autronic unit. Which BTW - can and does knock control out of the box as well as intake and exhaust cam timing control for about the price of a UTEC. It also has a learn mode for those DIY guys.

Well, since I run a RevUp, exhaust cam timing is important to me. Maybe not everyone, but to me it is. Also, I like knowing the knock control is a built in feature. Not an add-on for $500 + install... And since I'm doing all of my own work these days, an EMS that allows me to diagnose an issue is a must. I don't live in NJ, GA, or CA. So I'd be looking at a 4 hour tow (at best) to your shop from Northern VA. And that's a BEST CASE scenario... Unless you feel like driving down to my house every time I run into an issue... Didn't think so...

 

The thing with the FCON is that once it is installed and tuned you won't ever need to tweak it unless you make further modifications that would make your car run leaner. Unlike the UTEC which I have read where people have had to tweak the tune or lower the fuel pressure when the ambient temperature changes a significant amount from where the car was tuned.

 

Thats precisely my concern with an EMS like the Fcon. If something does happen I'm not willing to trailer my car and drive it several hours away for diagnosis when things could be checked if I had a different EMS. I'm not saying everyone is qualified to tune or work on their own car. No one can make that assumption. But for those of us that are and do our own work and are capable of diagnosing an issue given access to our EMS the Fcon is just not worth the cost involved. I'm not going to move my cam timing much if at all ever but knowing that I have full access to all the parameters of my EMS is something I require and if I have to take my car to a vendor every time I want to bump my timing down for the summer heat or change my fan turn on temp I'm going to be pissed. Lets face it, each EMS has its niche market. If you don't know a thing about cars and prefer someone to do all your work for you get the Fcon. If you are like me and several others on this board and would like to pick the tuner of your choice, and have access to your EMS because you CAN diagnose and tweak your cars settings than the Haltech is the way to go. Aside from the fact the Haltech should be considerably less expesnive than the Fcon and can be tuned by anyone (including professional tuners in your area local to you) there's absolutely a market for it. I don't care how much HKS is expanding their Pro Tuner segment. There's still not enough to go around. I have access to at least 3 OUTSTANDING tuners who aren't necessarily HKS Pro Tuners but could tune circles around a lot of others. I would rather drive 20 minutes to their shop since I know and trust them then drive 2+ hours to find someone I know and trust that IS a HKS Pro Dealer. Thats my though and everyone is entitled to theirs.

 

I don't think thats entirely true either. Some of us like to tweak some settings for summer and winter. I'm not just talking about fuel and timing curves but things like fan turn on temps, boost pressure (decreases mostly), and things like that. Anyone who knows me will tell you I change settings on my car as much as I can quite often. Anything from the turbo timer countdown to warm up times. I like to switch settings depending on where I'm going and what the weather is like outside. Sure the Fcon and Haltech will both do temp correction for fuel and timing curves but if I'm going to run at the track and want to bump up or decrease my boost pressure or alter my boost curve based on the track i'm going to run I want the ability to do so without having to drive to a vendor or buy another boost controller like some have to. You can only create so many maps but no amount of stored maps is going to cover every scenario in which you might be running your car.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the HKS is a bad product, just that I don't see it fitting my needs. I think if you've got an outstanding shop that's experienced with the HKS F-Con close to where you live, then why not. But I personally won't buy a product that I can't put my hands on. Being locked out of anything on my car is not an option. Also, for what HKS F-Con Pro's go for, I think that it should have more features that what it comes with. $3k for an incomplete solution is BS in my eyes. It's not about the money either. I'll pay twice that for a good EMS that does everything I want it to... It's just that when I buy something, I want to know it has all of the features I expect with a full stand-alone, and doesn't require an extra this or that to turn on features that it should ship with in the first place.

Just my

 

Just to put twist on this . You still need a tuner that has experience tuning the F-Con Pro . Ive talked to one F-con buyer that had to find an experience tuner after the original install and tune was done wrong . I dont know if HKS puts you thru thier Tuning school to learn the program or what .But sounds like just being a dealer / tuner doesnt mean its going to be a perfect tune

 

+1

 

I won't argue with you on that. Just because a shop is HKS certified doesn't mean they now how to tune worth a chit. I am one of the FCON buyers that got a crappy tune and had the unit installed incorrectly by an HKS certified shop (SGP), but that has nothing to do with the discussion about the unit itself.

 

For the record, and to the OP:

HKS F-Con over the GReddy Ultimate any day of the week. Just make sure you've got great support for it from a reputable shop...

 

re people talking about failure rates on the aem, this is tru they have lot of units that are not good but anybody that has worked on the aem a lot can tell u usually most of this problems are spotted by the tuner on time and aem replaces their ems quit fast for a new unit.....that's why supras..feel confortable running the unit to control fuel on 1400+ whp

all of the units are good imo

but re fcon v pro, I would do it 100 only if a prohks dealer was local, otherwise I'd think and consider other ems solutions as well, because of all the points mentioned about

 

I overlooked this post earlier so I''ll respond now.

^^All are valid points but aren't you running a flashed ECU for EMS? You can't do any of the above except tweak your turbo timer.

 

Hence the reason I'm looking at a standalone EMS and I don't want one thats locked down so I can't tweak it either.

 

No problem. I took your post out of context.

 

Your UTEC just kicked in, yo!!

 

Good disucssion here. IMHO, the more options, the better. As it stands today, the HKS Vpro is one of the best out there, but as mentioned, needs to be tuned and setup by a Pro Dealer. With a little more time, some other very polished options will be on the market.

One clarification, is that the full FCON with Knock Amp and all the sensors and harnesses is $3400. I think it was posted earlier, that it was $3500 without the knock amp.

Haltec and others will have systems in the $2500 range complete shortly, that are user/tuner available without a special license.

 

nice..... this haltec thing has been going on for a while they should hurry up and release it.. I just dont know if i would feel like being one of the first guine pigs for that.. when the FCON is a PROVEN setup!

 

Sorry I should have wrote that:
"Anyone who knows me will tell you I change settings quite often on my car, as much as I can with what I have"

 

That depends on what you consider a guinea pig. "Spy photos" show at least one vendor already running it on his car and I know for a fact at least two Haltech e11v2s are running VQ35s with turbos albeit in sand rails. All of them are doing cam timing control..

 

thats awsome!