View Poll Results: the right EMS
HKS
61
89.71%
Greddy Ultimate
7
10.29%
Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll
the right EMS
07-05-2007, 02:02 PM
#81
Banned
iTrader: (28)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Spotswood NJ
Posts: 5,510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by taurran
Not every consumer is absolutely incompetent. That's what most Z tuning shops will say but I don't entirely agree. Look at the other aftermarket communities, most of them are less shop-and-wallet based and more do-it-yourself based. ...
07-05-2007, 02:05 PM
#82
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Escondido
Posts: 11,373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by MRC Motorsports
Your completely right..Look at all the GREAT running SR20 swaps and Honda's running around there that run either full trhottle or barely idle..
07-05-2007, 02:06 PM
#83
Banned
iTrader: (28)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Spotswood NJ
Posts: 5,510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
LOL. I'll be interested to see how you respond to a dyno with a bone stock Z and its gains from adjusting cam timing alone. Not every end user is a dunce at tuning. The UTEC sells well for exactly this reason and the Fcon as nice as it is has people unwilling to purchase it because they can't self tune. Not everyone has to take their car to a shop to tweak their tune. It's nice that you have such little confidence in the abilities of your potential customers.
Do you have any Idea how many HOURS of tedious tuning the Variable Timing would be? Definitely not worth the gains IMHO..But hey, knock yourself out with it..Haltech makes a great product..Im interested to see what happens when you give the "average Joe" the total control the Haltech will offer..
07-05-2007, 02:10 PM
#84
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Escondido
Posts: 11,373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by MRC Motorsports
How is it a potential customer that wants to DO It THEMSELVES..Is that not a contradiction,and exactly the opposite of a customer..Heck Im all for my customers or inexperienced shops doing installs..That just means I get the "I messed up" money, which is always more in the end than the original install do to all the trouble shooting..
Do you have any Idea how many HOURS of tedious tuning the Variable Timing would be? Definitely not worth the gains IMHO..But hey, knock yourself out with it..Haltech makes a great product..Im interested to see what happens when you give the "average Joe" the total control the Haltech will offer..
Do you have any Idea how many HOURS of tedious tuning the Variable Timing would be? Definitely not worth the gains IMHO..But hey, knock yourself out with it..Haltech makes a great product..Im interested to see what happens when you give the "average Joe" the total control the Haltech will offer..
07-05-2007, 02:42 PM
#85
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NoVA
Posts: 1,528
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I personally will NEVER buy an F-Con. I just refuse to buy into any sort of monopoly BS product line. It may be the "best" that's PnP ready right now, but that doesn't mean it's the "best" thing period.
Answer this: If the F-Con is so special, why can't it dynamically retard timing (i.e. knock control) out of the box? You have to buy the knock-amp for that functionallity. Almost EVERY OTHER stand-alone EMS out there provides that feature out of the box, not to mention variable cam control (intake AND exhaust), as well as a DIY self tune / learn mode for baselining your tune.
I agree that tuning is an art, but for what vendors charge for HKS F-Con EMS units around here, it's criminal. I'm really just tired of reading another post that says "oh the F-Con is so much better than anything else out there... blah blah blah." How about trying something different. AEM, Haltech, Autronics, Motec, and others make excellent EMS solutions for less, and offer more functions and features out of the box.
Ok, I'm done venting
Answer this: If the F-Con is so special, why can't it dynamically retard timing (i.e. knock control) out of the box? You have to buy the knock-amp for that functionallity. Almost EVERY OTHER stand-alone EMS out there provides that feature out of the box, not to mention variable cam control (intake AND exhaust), as well as a DIY self tune / learn mode for baselining your tune.
I agree that tuning is an art, but for what vendors charge for HKS F-Con EMS units around here, it's criminal. I'm really just tired of reading another post that says "oh the F-Con is so much better than anything else out there... blah blah blah." How about trying something different. AEM, Haltech, Autronics, Motec, and others make excellent EMS solutions for less, and offer more functions and features out of the box.
Ok, I'm done venting
07-05-2007, 02:52 PM
#86
Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
They COULD be a purchase customer or initial tune customer. Of course not if you treat them like that they won't. As for how many hours of initial tuning, its not THAT much additional effort. At least not as much as you are making it out to be. And the gains are clearly more then you think but we'll see when all the info is posted.
07-05-2007, 03:01 PM
#87
The FCON Vpro has been around here for about 3 years at least, if not longer. Why all of a sudden has there been this big uprising against it and HKS dealers in general? I was running one over a year ago, Phunk was running one at least two years ago, if not more. A few others were as well, but I can't think of them at the moment. Nobody gave us a hard time and accused us of wasting our money....
07-05-2007, 04:03 PM
#89
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 668
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by doug
if you can afford it and a tuner is near by get the HKS V Pro .. its great addition for any car running higher than 550 whp ... UTEC is great for under 450 WHP .. the resolution on the UTEC is small and the higher in boost you go.. the more you need that better resolution for a better tune.. A tuner will tune a V Pro faster and safer than a UTEC in 10% of the time. Usually people who bash the V Pro being too expensive are people who can't afford it.
07-05-2007, 04:45 PM
#90
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 668
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think of it as an extended warranty. I draw the line at $300.00 for basic appliances. Stereo equipment from Best Buy for $400.00 bucks, yeah, get the warranty package for $39.99. Stock block at 500whp, probably UTEC. $25k+ "invested" in a motor etc., buy the best and I don't care what it is. If your tuner can tune it to 600whp and give you a 1 year warranty with confidence, take it, pay for it and be happy with it.
My local tuner suggests FCON for high HP built motors and definitely if tracking like myself. You have to think of it as the most important component to protect your investment. If you have invested a crap load of money, say over $20k, get the very best. You can go TT for as little as $10k. There is no reason to spend $4k on an EMS to support an investment of $10k. Great if you just have the money though...
Just my .02.
My local tuner suggests FCON for high HP built motors and definitely if tracking like myself. You have to think of it as the most important component to protect your investment. If you have invested a crap load of money, say over $20k, get the very best. You can go TT for as little as $10k. There is no reason to spend $4k on an EMS to support an investment of $10k. Great if you just have the money though...
Just my .02.
07-05-2007, 07:06 PM
#92
Banned
iTrader: (28)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Spotswood NJ
Posts: 5,510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
They COULD be a purchase customer or initial tune customer. Of course not if you treat them like that they won't. As for how many hours of initial tuning, its not THAT much additional effort. At least not as much as you are making it out to be. And the gains are clearly more then you think but we'll see when all the info is posted.
07-05-2007, 07:11 PM
#93
Banned
iTrader: (28)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Spotswood NJ
Posts: 5,510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TENGAI
I agree that tuning is an art, but for what vendors charge for HKS F-Con EMS units around here, it's criminal.
Originally Posted by TENGAI
I'm really just tired of reading another post that says "oh the F-Con is so much better than anything else out there... blah blah blah." How about trying something different.
Originally Posted by TENGAI
AEM, Haltech, Autronics, Motec, and others make excellent EMS solutions for less, and offer more functions and features out of the box.
07-05-2007, 07:31 PM
#94
Registered User
iTrader: (18)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: .
Posts: 9,482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by MRC Motorsports
Your completely right..Look at all the GREAT running SR20 swaps and Honda's running around there that run either full trhottle or barely idle..
That's really all there is to what I'm saying, I dont intend to argue the point.
07-05-2007, 10:21 PM
#95
Banned
iTrader: (28)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Spotswood NJ
Posts: 5,510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by taurran
Well yeah, but look at all those home built and tuned hondas that would absolutely DESTROY any street driven Z on this site with 50k+ in parts and labor. A lot of great innovation has come from those same home tuners. I see it constantly being stifled on this forum by shops and people that settle for the "do it right, do it for as much money as possible, do it the same as everyone else" approach.
That's really all there is to what I'm saying, I dont intend to argue the point.
That's really all there is to what I'm saying, I dont intend to argue the point.
Plus the Hondas break every other run..
07-05-2007, 11:03 PM
#96
Originally Posted by MRC Motorsports
Very tru, However the Honda platform has been developed over the past 10 years in the drag racing scene..Give the Z the same time frame and youll see tons of 10-9 second Z's running on the street..
Plus the Hondas break every other run..
Plus the Hondas break every other run..
07-05-2007, 11:29 PM
#97
Registered User
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Weqster
My final through for this thread. Pick a tuner before your EMS.
Then use an EMS that your tuner is comfortable with. Cause in the end, doesnt matter what tool they use, if they arnt familer with it, ur tune will be ****.
Then use an EMS that your tuner is comfortable with. Cause in the end, doesnt matter what tool they use, if they arnt familer with it, ur tune will be ****.
07-06-2007, 02:50 AM
#99
SFZCC
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Lake Worth, FL
Posts: 7,419
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A lot of those Honda guys also go through engines without much concerned as they are easy to get and easy to build, I would not want to be rebuilding my VQ every few months.
07-06-2007, 02:53 AM
#100
Banned
iTrader: (28)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Spotswood NJ
Posts: 5,510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by westpak
A lot of those Honda guys also go through engines without much concerned as they are easy to get and easy to build, I would not want to be rebuilding my VQ every few months.