momentum performance
06-07-2009, 08:59 PM
#81
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Exactly they're just trying to find reasons to say it's a copy of or worse than the powerlab kit. It's no surprise that slidefox rudeg and quiksilver the ones that are trying to bash momentum for any reason possible are all customers of intense.
06-07-2009, 09:24 PM
#82
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On the uppipe well after the two banks have merged. I will take a installed picture next time the car is on the lift.
Normally I would never say something negative about a competitor but that wastegate is located almost 2ft before the two banks up pipes merge. That will certainly cause a huge discrepancy in back pressure between the two banks that the ecu with or without the turbo xs is not capable of compensating for.
Normally I would never say something negative about a competitor but that wastegate is located almost 2ft before the two banks up pipes merge. That will certainly cause a huge discrepancy in back pressure between the two banks that the ecu with or without the turbo xs is not capable of compensating for.
06-07-2009, 09:28 PM
#83
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WTF do you expect them to say. That their kit isn't as good as powerlab of course they aren't going to do that. Any business is going to advertise on how their product is better than their competitors product.
mike can see it why cant you. I mean i realize that this comunity works by hanging out in a meet drinking a few beers etc and thats gets you hooked.....
oh btw?, do you seee me bashing gtm TT kit, SP kit, greddy kit, aps extreme kit? quit trying to say as if i think PL is the one and only kit i support....there are quite a few others i like and recomend...many here can tell you that
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 06-07-2009 at 09:42 PM.
06-07-2009, 09:49 PM
#84
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https://my350z.com/forum/7412167-post18.html
https://my350z.com/forum/7412750-post20.html
I did read it you, rudeg, and slidefox were the ones who started bashing there products on the first page. You and slidefox said both kits looked similar and on the second page momentum pointed out why they thought their product was better like any business would and from then on the rest of the thread the three of you have been bashing momentum and supporting intense's powerlab kit.
best thing to say would have said is that "they are not familiar with that turbo kit but this is what ours offers".
mike can see it why cant you. I mean i realize that this comunity works by hanging out in a meet drinking a few beers etc and thats gets you hooked...
mike can see it why cant you. I mean i realize that this comunity works by hanging out in a meet drinking a few beers etc and thats gets you hooked...
06-07-2009, 10:23 PM
#85
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What they said isn't bashing you just chose to make it look that way. What do you expect you stated that the kits looked the same and he pointed out the differences. He stated why he thought his kit was an improvement over the competitors product. That's normal business practices in order to sell your product by advertising it as better than your competition. This whole situation is a huge conflict of interest for you because you will just support intense motorsports to the end. Nothing they can do will be wrong in your eyes.
And also on that "they cant do wrong"...wrong... oh believe me thats happened, everybody is human... the but theve always stand behind their work and try to make things right for customers...everybody makes mistakes, its the follow up that counts....
06-07-2009, 10:47 PM
#86
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Hello,
Is it momentous autosports? (my apologies, in advance, if I got that wrong).
First of all, until you can demonstrate, empirically, that there is a problem with the placement of the wastegate location on the PowerLab ST then your contentions are simply theoretical. As you have yet to earn your marks around here, and have made a public "jab" at the PowerLab ST (in a seeming attempt at "negative marketing") the burden of proof lies on you to make your point. Since you are new here, and this idea seems novel to you I will go a little easier on it than some of the others who have posted prior to me.
Here's a clue: negativity rises (like fat) to the top in the forum world. To that end, if there were issues with the wastegate causing boost creep/boost spike, then there would be countless posts and threads that demonstrate end-users' complaints. Make sense?
That said: find me one. Find just one post where an end-user complained about boost spike or boost creep.
Ok, since none exist, and it's obvious that there's dozens of end-users on the street, now please tell us what the problem is. Forums loooooove drama. The users thirst for it. They want blood like a blood sick vampire. How are you going to come in here flexing on PL, having only been a vendor in here for 1 month and not bring anything but blanks to the war?
Real engineers with decades of experience building race cars, turbo systems, fuel systems, tuning race cars, and racing on professional levels built the PowerLab ST. Do you not think that they considered and discussed at length the placement of the wastegate in the system? Really? Does it escape you that the conversation you've brought to the table wasn't discussed and tested at length?
At the end of the day, your a business trying to make a buck off of a solid, well-known system that makes 400whp on 7psi or 900whp w/ a couple minor changes. Both use the same wastegate, both have the same wastegate placement, and neither have EVER HAD 1 COMPLAINT FROM ANY USER ABOUT BOOST SPIKE/CREEP.
So, it's obvious that you've come in here as a convict would: going into prison the first day, and have chosen to try to take down the biggest, baddest man to give yourself a name. (I'm referring to PowerLab as the leading ST turbo kit company for this market) However, until you can show quantitative, empirical data that demonstrates there to be a design flaw in the PowerLab ST that somehow negatively affects the function of the wastegate or turbo, then you're straight up talking out of your ______.
Keep trying.
Darren(loves this thread -- I bet the PowerLab dealers get an influx of business.. thanks!)
Is it momentous autosports? (my apologies, in advance, if I got that wrong).
First of all, until you can demonstrate, empirically, that there is a problem with the placement of the wastegate location on the PowerLab ST then your contentions are simply theoretical. As you have yet to earn your marks around here, and have made a public "jab" at the PowerLab ST (in a seeming attempt at "negative marketing") the burden of proof lies on you to make your point. Since you are new here, and this idea seems novel to you I will go a little easier on it than some of the others who have posted prior to me.
Here's a clue: negativity rises (like fat) to the top in the forum world. To that end, if there were issues with the wastegate causing boost creep/boost spike, then there would be countless posts and threads that demonstrate end-users' complaints. Make sense?
That said: find me one. Find just one post where an end-user complained about boost spike or boost creep.
Ok, since none exist, and it's obvious that there's dozens of end-users on the street, now please tell us what the problem is. Forums loooooove drama. The users thirst for it. They want blood like a blood sick vampire. How are you going to come in here flexing on PL, having only been a vendor in here for 1 month and not bring anything but blanks to the war?
Real engineers with decades of experience building race cars, turbo systems, fuel systems, tuning race cars, and racing on professional levels built the PowerLab ST. Do you not think that they considered and discussed at length the placement of the wastegate in the system? Really? Does it escape you that the conversation you've brought to the table wasn't discussed and tested at length?
At the end of the day, your a business trying to make a buck off of a solid, well-known system that makes 400whp on 7psi or 900whp w/ a couple minor changes. Both use the same wastegate, both have the same wastegate placement, and neither have EVER HAD 1 COMPLAINT FROM ANY USER ABOUT BOOST SPIKE/CREEP.
So, it's obvious that you've come in here as a convict would: going into prison the first day, and have chosen to try to take down the biggest, baddest man to give yourself a name. (I'm referring to PowerLab as the leading ST turbo kit company for this market) However, until you can show quantitative, empirical data that demonstrates there to be a design flaw in the PowerLab ST that somehow negatively affects the function of the wastegate or turbo, then you're straight up talking out of your ______.
Keep trying.
Darren(loves this thread -- I bet the PowerLab dealers get an influx of business.. thanks!)
06-08-2009, 01:03 AM
#87
hahaha Wow what a EPIC thread from my 1st post. Yo Quik iv never had a prob with u but its getting old when Darren or whoever PMs u to stand up for them like a big sister and defend them. I have no prob with Intense. I think the spacer is crap(use to have it) and the only thing they make worth ANYTHING is the ST kits. My point is idk these vendors that made this thread or Intense im just saying keep ur nose out of other peoples buisness or maybe one day it might get broke
06-08-2009, 03:55 AM
#88
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WOW....It just goes to show that no person or vendor should ever start a thread like this without proof. Even faulty test results would have been better then starting a thread like this with "I never seen it in person or tested it...." WOW...Man you have lost the little "Street Cred" you came in here with. 
You should have atleast contacted someone with an installed PL Kit and ran the test that way....You would not have had to spend the $7000.
The way I see it now...the only way you can redeem what you have lost here is to back up your statement with SOLID PROOF/DATA.....
You should have atleast contacted someone with an installed PL Kit and ran the test that way....You would not have had to spend the $7000.
The way I see it now...the only way you can redeem what you have lost here is to back up your statement with SOLID PROOF/DATA.....
06-08-2009, 04:18 AM
#89
WOW....It just goes to show that no person or vendor should ever start a thread like this without proof. Even faulty test results would have been better then starting a thread like this with "I never seen it in person or tested it...." WOW...Man you have lost the little "Street Cred" you came in here with.
You should have atleast contacted someone with an installed PL Kit and ran the test that way....You would not have had to spend the $7000.
The way I see it now...the only way you can redeem what you have lost here is to back up your statement with SOLID PROOF/DATA.....
You should have atleast contacted someone with an installed PL Kit and ran the test that way....You would not have had to spend the $7000.
The way I see it now...the only way you can redeem what you have lost here is to back up your statement with SOLID PROOF/DATA.....
06-08-2009, 05:25 AM
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Hello,
Is it momentous autosports? (my apologies, in advance, if I got that wrong).
First of all, until you can demonstrate, empirically, that there is a problem with the placement of the wastegate location on the PowerLab ST then your contentions are simply theoretical. As you have yet to earn your marks around here, and have made a public "jab" at the PowerLab ST (in a seeming attempt at "negative marketing") the burden of proof lies on you to make your point. Since you are new here, and this idea seems novel to you I will go a little easier on it than some of the others who have posted prior to me.
Here's a clue: negativity rises (like fat) to the top in the forum world. To that end, if there were issues with the wastegate causing boost creep/boost spike, then there would be countless posts and threads that demonstrate end-users' complaints. Make sense?
That said: find me one. Find just one post where an end-user complained about boost spike or boost creep.
Ok, since none exist, and it's obvious that there's dozens of end-users on the street, now please tell us what the problem is. Forums loooooove drama. The users thirst for it. They want blood like a blood sick vampire. How are you going to come in here flexing on PL, having only been a vendor in here for 1 month and not bring anything but blanks to the war?
Real engineers with decades of experience building race cars, turbo systems, fuel systems, tuning race cars, and racing on professional levels built the PowerLab ST. Do you not think that they considered and discussed at length the placement of the wastegate in the system? Really? Does it escape you that the conversation you've brought to the table wasn't discussed and tested at length?
At the end of the day, your a business trying to make a buck off of a solid, well-known system that makes 400whp on 7psi or 900whp w/ a couple minor changes. Both use the same wastegate, both have the same wastegate placement, and neither have EVER HAD 1 COMPLAINT FROM ANY USER ABOUT BOOST SPIKE/CREEP.
So, it's obvious that you've come in here as a convict would: going into prison the first day, and have chosen to try to take down the biggest, baddest man to give yourself a name. (I'm referring to PowerLab as the leading ST turbo kit company for this market) However, until you can show quantitative, empirical data that demonstrates there to be a design flaw in the PowerLab ST that somehow negatively affects the function of the wastegate or turbo, then you're straight up talking out of your ______.
Keep trying.
Darren(loves this thread -- I bet the PowerLab dealers get an influx of business.. thanks!)
Is it momentous autosports? (my apologies, in advance, if I got that wrong).
First of all, until you can demonstrate, empirically, that there is a problem with the placement of the wastegate location on the PowerLab ST then your contentions are simply theoretical. As you have yet to earn your marks around here, and have made a public "jab" at the PowerLab ST (in a seeming attempt at "negative marketing") the burden of proof lies on you to make your point. Since you are new here, and this idea seems novel to you I will go a little easier on it than some of the others who have posted prior to me.
Here's a clue: negativity rises (like fat) to the top in the forum world. To that end, if there were issues with the wastegate causing boost creep/boost spike, then there would be countless posts and threads that demonstrate end-users' complaints. Make sense?
That said: find me one. Find just one post where an end-user complained about boost spike or boost creep.
Ok, since none exist, and it's obvious that there's dozens of end-users on the street, now please tell us what the problem is. Forums loooooove drama. The users thirst for it. They want blood like a blood sick vampire. How are you going to come in here flexing on PL, having only been a vendor in here for 1 month and not bring anything but blanks to the war?
Real engineers with decades of experience building race cars, turbo systems, fuel systems, tuning race cars, and racing on professional levels built the PowerLab ST. Do you not think that they considered and discussed at length the placement of the wastegate in the system? Really? Does it escape you that the conversation you've brought to the table wasn't discussed and tested at length?
At the end of the day, your a business trying to make a buck off of a solid, well-known system that makes 400whp on 7psi or 900whp w/ a couple minor changes. Both use the same wastegate, both have the same wastegate placement, and neither have EVER HAD 1 COMPLAINT FROM ANY USER ABOUT BOOST SPIKE/CREEP.
So, it's obvious that you've come in here as a convict would: going into prison the first day, and have chosen to try to take down the biggest, baddest man to give yourself a name. (I'm referring to PowerLab as the leading ST turbo kit company for this market) However, until you can show quantitative, empirical data that demonstrates there to be a design flaw in the PowerLab ST that somehow negatively affects the function of the wastegate or turbo, then you're straight up talking out of your ______.
Keep trying.
Darren(loves this thread -- I bet the PowerLab dealers get an influx of business.. thanks!)
That's what I was waiting for welcome in the battle field Darren
Last edited by MEI; 06-08-2009 at 05:27 AM. Reason: adding some features
06-08-2009, 06:19 AM
#92
We can all argue back and forth all day till we are blue in the face, however its on you to get a hold of a Powerlab Kit and prove that what they are doing is wrong, they have already proved what they are doing is right.. now you have to prove its wrong.
When the Powerlab Kit came on the market, many of the Turbonetics Followers were upset and said the Powerlab Kit was just a clone and would probably perform just the same as the Turbonetics Kit. Intense went out of their way to prove with dyno's this was false, but not only that. Julian of MRC did an independent test of both kits, design, performance and IAT levels to prove the Powerlab was superior to the Turbonetics Kit, he also posted postiive and negatives he found with the kit, a true non-bias Test. He also did the samething for the STS Kit and found a major flaw that STS later fixed on their future Kits. However...
Scott, your job is to stop playing Victim and find a PowerLab Car and prove that they are wrong.
Intense, Rude, Quick, Slide.. your job is to do nothing, all the proof has already been done, arguing isn't getting anyone anywhere and this thread is just pages and pages of bickering, and quite frankly its working in Scotts favor, he has played the Victim and made you guys look like the bullies.. so why give him that positive advertising? why give him that boost? This reminds me of when up and coming rappers make songs about well known rappers, it might not mean anything but it made them KNOWN..
Remember guys.. no such thing as bad publicity.. its just publicity
06-08-2009, 06:48 AM
#93
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Honestly? that 'I'm the Victim' tactic is only going to work for so long, you said your peace, you stated your facts and now wrong or right, its on you to prove that what they have done is wrong. Your argument could be the same for the STS Turbo Kit, name one turbo kit that has the turbo in the back? Ok the STS Kit.. now name one turbo kit that has a wastegate placement like that when only one bank is vented? Ok the Power Lab Kit.
We can all argue back and forth all day till we are blue in the face, however its on you to get a hold of a Powerlab Kit and prove that what they are doing is wrong, they have already proved what they are doing is right.. now you have to prove its wrong.
When the Powerlab Kit came on the market, many of the Turbonetics Followers were upset and said the Powerlab Kit was just a clone and would probably perform just the same as the Turbonetics Kit. Intense went out of their way to prove with dyno's this was false, but not only that. Julian of MRC did an independent test of both kits, design, performance and IAT levels to prove the Powerlab was superior to the Turbonetics Kit, he also posted postiive and negatives he found with the kit, a true non-bias Test. He also did the samething for the STS Kit and found a major flaw that STS later fixed on their future Kits. However...
Scott, your job is to stop playing Victim and find a PowerLab Car and prove that they are wrong.
Intense, Rude, Quick, Slide.. your job is to do nothing, all the proof has already been done, arguing isn't getting anyone anywhere and this thread is just pages and pages of bickering, and quite frankly its working in Scotts favor, he has played the Victim and made you guys look like the bullies.. so why give him that positive advertising? why give him that boost? This reminds me of when up and coming rappers make songs about well known rappers, it might not mean anything but it made them KNOWN..
Remember guys.. no such thing as bad publicity.. its just publicity
We can all argue back and forth all day till we are blue in the face, however its on you to get a hold of a Powerlab Kit and prove that what they are doing is wrong, they have already proved what they are doing is right.. now you have to prove its wrong.
When the Powerlab Kit came on the market, many of the Turbonetics Followers were upset and said the Powerlab Kit was just a clone and would probably perform just the same as the Turbonetics Kit. Intense went out of their way to prove with dyno's this was false, but not only that. Julian of MRC did an independent test of both kits, design, performance and IAT levels to prove the Powerlab was superior to the Turbonetics Kit, he also posted postiive and negatives he found with the kit, a true non-bias Test. He also did the samething for the STS Kit and found a major flaw that STS later fixed on their future Kits. However...
Scott, your job is to stop playing Victim and find a PowerLab Car and prove that they are wrong.
Intense, Rude, Quick, Slide.. your job is to do nothing, all the proof has already been done, arguing isn't getting anyone anywhere and this thread is just pages and pages of bickering, and quite frankly its working in Scotts favor, he has played the Victim and made you guys look like the bullies.. so why give him that positive advertising? why give him that boost? This reminds me of when up and coming rappers make songs about well known rappers, it might not mean anything but it made them KNOWN..
Remember guys.. no such thing as bad publicity.. its just publicity
Rude, quick and Slide..... not to throw this thread off topic but what kits do you use on your car?
06-08-2009, 07:03 AM
#95
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I had TN kit and PL kit... now about to finish up custom PL setup.
Also seen the kit run for well over a year in az, trip to vegas no issues...seen many DIY, nothin related to this issues....
doug pointed out at julians thread... that was very fair, and had and tested the kit... so has injected and Sp here...none made any "baseless" comments.... that power and track record up to now speak for itself...
I know to many all you need to offer a sale 5$ less than the competition, a couple of beers and friendly talk and that give all the credibility they need....its cute..i know of a another mrS that uses that to get "credibility" too... I have to lol at those here with old past issues and are just latching on to the thread.
I like what you metioned of the STS kit, sure...people dont like that its out ther eon the back, but they got called out when they were hinting that having the "turbo on the engine bay is very dangerous" and their system is superior...some shops intros have been fine until a baseless comment such as "because i have this dyno this is the only way to get an accurate tune"...
THe raper example is spot on though
Also seen the kit run for well over a year in az, trip to vegas no issues...seen many DIY, nothin related to this issues....
doug pointed out at julians thread... that was very fair, and had and tested the kit... so has injected and Sp here...none made any "baseless" comments.... that power and track record up to now speak for itself...
I know to many all you need to offer a sale 5$ less than the competition, a couple of beers and friendly talk and that give all the credibility they need....its cute..i know of a another mrS that uses that to get "credibility" too... I have to lol at those here with old past issues and are just latching on to the thread.
I like what you metioned of the STS kit, sure...people dont like that its out ther eon the back, but they got called out when they were hinting that having the "turbo on the engine bay is very dangerous" and their system is superior...some shops intros have been fine until a baseless comment such as "because i have this dyno this is the only way to get an accurate tune"...
THe raper example is spot on though
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 06-08-2009 at 07:20 AM.
06-08-2009, 07:13 AM
#96
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Momentum Performance...
Anyway,
Not once did I say that was the issue I expected
Like I've said a dozen times and have waited for someone to give a rational explanation otherwise the wastegate being located on one side of the Y means that EITHER all of the uneeded exhaust gas is being diverted from the passenger side only OR exhaust gas is flowing backwards. The proof is in the picture and no one has been able to deny that point yet. Now lets say that the exhaust doesnt flow upstream instead the exhaust is vented from the passenger bank only this means that the driver side bank is doing significantly more "work" assuming we believe all the laws of physics around "work" then the driver side bank will have higher EGTs. The other option is that some exhaust is flowing upstream and I think we all consider that inefficient right?
why do you keep bringing that up I never even mentioned that?
I would have thought so but apparently the laws don't apply here
As for data I used my car as a perfect example which has much better wastegate placement and STILL has some obvious evidence. If you choose to ignore that I can't do much else.
Try and find ONE more turbo kit that has a wastegate placement like that when only one bank is vented. I know I have never seen one.
Anyway,
Not once did I say that was the issue I expected
Like I've said a dozen times and have waited for someone to give a rational explanation otherwise the wastegate being located on one side of the Y means that EITHER all of the uneeded exhaust gas is being diverted from the passenger side only OR exhaust gas is flowing backwards. The proof is in the picture and no one has been able to deny that point yet. Now lets say that the exhaust doesnt flow upstream instead the exhaust is vented from the passenger bank only this means that the driver side bank is doing significantly more "work" assuming we believe all the laws of physics around "work" then the driver side bank will have higher EGTs. The other option is that some exhaust is flowing upstream and I think we all consider that inefficient right?
why do you keep bringing that up I never even mentioned that?
I would have thought so but apparently the laws don't apply here
As for data I used my car as a perfect example which has much better wastegate placement and STILL has some obvious evidence. If you choose to ignore that I can't do much else.
Try and find ONE more turbo kit that has a wastegate placement like that when only one bank is vented. I know I have never seen one.
P.S. in case you haven't put 2 and 2 together, you ARE saying there would be boost creap/spike issues, you just aren't realizing it. If the non wastegated side was having backpressure climb uncontrollably as you stated, then boost would climb with it as the turbine is the sole reason for the backpressure on the non wastegated side.
Last edited by 1ZweetZ; 06-08-2009 at 07:54 AM.
06-08-2009, 07:19 AM
#97
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everybody needs to chill, but i will say this since i have some experience with it. I have a custom wg setup on my aps single build since it is notorious for overboosting issues. I do have a wg on the passenger side bank and have approx. 22K miles on the kit at 400whp, and current 430hp/430tq stock block. That being said in theory i completely aggress that the wg placement could have a negative effect. However, it does not see to have reared its ugly head with my setup or with the PL kit.
But i do think it is good that you are trying to produce more kits for the vq and are not overlooking even the smallest of details.
after thinking about this point i wonder if i should redo my wg setup but feel it is not a pressing issue and will redo it when i build the motor
But i do think it is good that you are trying to produce more kits for the vq and are not overlooking even the smallest of details.
after thinking about this point i wonder if i should redo my wg setup but feel it is not a pressing issue and will redo it when i build the motor
06-08-2009, 07:19 AM
#98
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Well said Doug.....and Jorge you made a good point.....if shops like SP, Injected or MRC hand started this thread AFTER testing the PL...THEN___________ ......fill in the gap!!
Last edited by XKR; 06-08-2009 at 07:23 AM.
06-08-2009, 07:24 AM
#100
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i mean of course this shops have their own comments.... ill take Injected as the better example, they are obviously not buddie buddies with Intense or PL(just biz), and i am sure they had comments of their own since they also have a ST build a few years back.... i didn't see them trash talking on that issue or anything... i am sure they installed the kit saw the props and some things that would have done it a big differently or not.... but they put ~500whp at 10psi and thats the end of it. They reviewed it in a thread and all fair and square.
Competition is fine, i heart that...no need to make things up though.
Competition is fine, i heart that...no need to make things up though.
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 06-08-2009 at 07:38 AM.