Not to be a d!ck but we all choose our own path, to ask others to pitch in on bad decisions isn't right IMO. Plus you could have 5 different people tear it down and get 5 different "theories" as to what went wrong, very rarely does something stand out as being obviously wrong or the cause of failure, trust me I know. Its a guessing game in most cases.

I really wish Chris the best, worst part is he never really got to enjoy any of the setups, it was just much, much too short lived overall when you take into account the $$$, time and effort this guy put in.

 

So many details - could've been a different cause each time and we'll never know... Here's a nice read - summary below - http://www.gipairconditioning.gr/pdf/nb.pdf

Causes of engine bearing failure:

1 -- DIRT
DIRT IN THE LUBRICATION SYSTEM
DIRT ON BEARING BACK

2 -- OIL STARVATION
MALFUNCTION IN THE LUBRICATION SYSTEM (RTV on both sides of the pick up spacer? Justice Racing wouldn't be involved in the assembly)
OIL SEAL FAILURE

3 -- MISASSEMBLY

4 -- IMPROPER MACHINING OF COMPONENTS.

5 -- OVERLOADING

6 -- CORROSION

7 -- CAVITATION

 

yeah well.. i truly also feel bad he never realized his dream and the buddy shops should shame themselves for failing many times and i think they probably should have ran out of excuses by now. There is nothing to blame the driver/owner, his only fault was to stick with them because their are friends; and i guess part of it was the money issue but i think that turned out to be more expensive at the end of day...it all started with a rag
(disclaimer, i am just talking a bit of smack here, and nothing scientific or with actual proof)

-Agree with Alberto that many possibilities and to a certain extend its some what a guessing game on same areas but i think with 5 fails something will stand out, and even if it had been 1 or 3 possibilities it may point one direction.

-We should be able to discount parts are being at fault here, since we have 5 tries.

-I would discount overloading since the power goal wasnt "crazy power", how ever some could be due to engine tuning conditions. But with 5 tries and different tuners i am leaning towards the builder more at fault anyways

-Corrosion its an easy one as it takes time and bad use of engine oils, not following up on oil changes.

-Cavitation... hmm i think the tuner was monitoring the oil pressure

All that leaves me with:
1 -- DIRT 2 -- OIL STARVATION 3 -- MISASSEMBLY 4 -- IMPROPER MACHINING OF COMPONENTS.

IF #4 was tried by different machine shops that can be probably discounted too...



Bottomline this needs to be quoted again:

 

This really does suck. I guess it just wasnt meant to be. Sorry chris.

 

If he can wait until I get home in a month or so I'll tear it down and document the process.

 

How many times have your engine teared down by someone who was not 1) a competing shop or B) the original builder? Obvious issues with either option... I'm talking about someone like BlinkerFluid who is part of the community and not out to make a buck, hide his own fail, or badmouth another shop. I think it would be interesting to see what an unbiased teardown turns up.

 

I still don't think the root cause will be so evident or it would have been fixed 4x already. If you want to do that so much you go ahead and pay shipping for his block to some guy to tear it down and post his findings, at this point I don't think even Chris cares.

 

I think there is a good chance that there is something the builder or assembler keeps overlooking despite care (after so many tries). It is interesting that oil pressure drop seems to be the consistent harbringer of impending motor failure. Is it part of the cause of bearing failure or just a downstream symptom?

 

Cass, I wouldnt worry about it, at this point you cant even get mad or upset... just say **** it and part out..... PM REPLIED!.. take my advice..no need to rest the blue Z in peace... you can make money back from parting out... and then go for it, you wont regret it!

 

That's why I volunteered, I can do it at his house for nothing, well, maybe some bagels.

It seems like Chris caught it before the bearing spun, if that's the case, it shouldn't be too difficult to determine what happened.

Personally I'm curious if the crank was turned and the oiling ports weren't properly cleaned out. Some nasty detonation can cause the rod bearings to get the tar kicked out of them too, which should have left some evidence in the combustion chamber. There could be any number of causes, and like Alberto mentioned, there's always the possibility that root cause cannot be determined.

Chris, do you still have any of the failed parts from the other engines for comparison?

 

I'm fine donating to the cause, can probably muster up a few others as well... chris shouldn't even have to sacrafice bagels at this point. I know pulling a VQ is a pita so... Even if alberto is right it's no skin off my back -- there's much more to gain than to lose.

 

Part out the car and lets use the rolling chassis for target practice....that thing has bad juju. Send her off with what she deserves.

 

THIS!!

I have pretty much all the old parts in my shed.

I don't think this will be any different from the other tear downs. No massive detonation, just wear from oil starvation. I caught this very early this time so its possible the bearing isn't fused to the crank or anything.

Jesse, you are more than welcome to come over and tear things down if I can wait that long. I need to choose what I'm doing next and start selling off parts that I no longer need. For sure items are the TT setup, meth kit, and as much of the motor accessories as possible. Possibly the transmission, clutch and exhaust as well as heads, cams, rods and pistons if they aren't damaged.

 

I'd like to know exactly how the bearing clearances were determined on all of these builds.

 

I concur, it's not the manual labor or parts (any shops fault).. It has always been the EMS/ECU..IMO no one in the FI community that I know of has ever had this many problems as you Chris. Secondly you are prob the only person I know of who's using the ViPEC even thou I'm not truly familiar with this unit, IMO with the money spent on your project you could have had positive results if you went a different route on the tuning (Haltech or UPREV). I feel your pain in this project coming to an end there is only so far you can go until you reach that breaking point.

Sorry Bro.

 

My engine was built by Hills and Machined by Justice... everything is solid and haven’t had any issues yet..additionally add to the list of about 20+ cars that follow after mines. Until you have all the facts don’t point fingers...

 

Some people just have shitty luck with the VQ!! I know I do.

 

your logic makes no sense. it didnt have a tune related issue. Its a mechanical oil pump to mechanical systems. none of which is controlled by the EMS

i'd be very nervous about your engine as well.

 

i will dissagree, there is a culprit to all this... saying that just excuses people's mistakes and pussifies the community IMO

 

Until you know a thing about how an engine works, maybe you shouldn't post how one can fail.