MREV V2 Independent Dyno Tested on Bone Stock 287HP Motor (Wired 24/7's 05 Touring)
05-10-2006, 11:19 AM
#121
Disclaimer: this message is hearsay and what I'm saying could be wrong.
The stock ECU is designed to adjust to any condition and make it safe to drive the car. For example if you put in 87 octane and start flogging your engine, it will no doubt pull timing to prevent knock/ping. This is because 87 octane ignites easier than higher octane gas, which means it could ignite without the spark plug meaning it throws the engine out of sync. Same thing with a lean AFR. It should pull timing to prevent knock/ping thus making it safe to drive. That said, I'd still feel more comfortable with a tune rather than just trusting the stock ECU.
For example, let's say you're driving along with pulled timing on 87 octane, then the ECU decides "I'm going to try to advance timing again, because the current tune is safe!" So it advances timing and detects knock, then pulls timing again.
I'd rather have a constant tune that does not change, which is why I'm looking into engine management.
The stock ECU is designed to adjust to any condition and make it safe to drive the car. For example if you put in 87 octane and start flogging your engine, it will no doubt pull timing to prevent knock/ping. This is because 87 octane ignites easier than higher octane gas, which means it could ignite without the spark plug meaning it throws the engine out of sync. Same thing with a lean AFR. It should pull timing to prevent knock/ping thus making it safe to drive. That said, I'd still feel more comfortable with a tune rather than just trusting the stock ECU.
For example, let's say you're driving along with pulled timing on 87 octane, then the ECU decides "I'm going to try to advance timing again, because the current tune is safe!" So it advances timing and detects knock, then pulls timing again.
I'd rather have a constant tune that does not change, which is why I'm looking into engine management.
Last edited by Wired 24/7; 05-10-2006 at 11:22 AM.
05-10-2006, 12:24 PM
#124
Originally Posted by dovla
Hydrazine, thank you for posting your G35 mods.
Can you post Kevdog dyno with only MREV2 and without 5/16” spacer if one was made. Thanks
Can you post Kevdog dyno with only MREV2 and without 5/16” spacer if one was made. Thanks
05-11-2006, 02:11 PM
#125
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Originally Posted by Hydrazine
OK! Here it is!
Attached or linked images dont always seem to work well on this board. This discussion board software has bugs in it.
Copy and paste this link into your adress bar to view it if it isn't automatically shown below.
Or better yet, click on it. It wont work most of the time, but if you then click on the adress bar and hit return, it will work.
http://www.motordyneengineering.com/...2_vs_Stock.gif
Attached or linked images dont always seem to work well on this board. This discussion board software has bugs in it.
Copy and paste this link into your adress bar to view it if it isn't automatically shown below.
Or better yet, click on it. It wont work most of the time, but if you then click on the adress bar and hit return, it will work.
http://www.motordyneengineering.com/...2_vs_Stock.gif
If you cut and paste the link into a new window it comes up fine so no worries. What exactly is that dyno showing? Is that the difference b/t the MREV V1 and V2? And on which engine?
Sorry, I am sure I could search, but I am pressed for time and doing 5 tasks at once w/a 3 month old baby in one arm!
05-11-2006, 04:03 PM
#126
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Originally Posted by Wired 24/7
Please read the whole thread, before everyone jumps on this bandwagon.
It lost peak HP/TQ but it had some benefits, and it will make more power with a tune. Please read what I posted regarding the dyno plots, as I don't really like repeating myself.
It lost peak HP/TQ but it had some benefits, and it will make more power with a tune. Please read what I posted regarding the dyno plots, as I don't really like repeating myself.
You haven't answered my questions, neither about the specific plot I am referring to, nor about the Crawford combo. I can assure you that I have read all the threads concerning the MREV-2 and to this point only 1 person, wren57, has answered the Crawford question with any facts not conjecture. As far as your tune assertion, while I agree, any G35 will benefit from a tune. Also, I ask the questions to solicit responses from those that have empirical data to offer, not necessarily from dyno plots. Dyno plots may indicate a loss/gain, but how do they translate to the experience behind the wheel? These questions don't get answered unless they ae asked.
05-11-2006, 04:22 PM
#127
Originally Posted by amG35
You haven't answered my questions, neither about the specific plot I am referring to, nor about the Crawford combo. I can assure you that I have read all the threads concerning the MREV-2 and to this point only 1 person, wren57, has answered the Crawford question with any facts not conjecture. As far as your tune assertion, while I agree, any G35 will benefit from a tune. Also, I ask the questions to solicit responses from those that have empirical data to offer, not necessarily from dyno plots. Dyno plots may indicate a loss/gain, but how do they translate to the experience behind the wheel? These questions don't get answered unless they ae asked.
Okay, here you go:
Question:
Originally Posted by amG35
Do these plots indicate that the combo actually lost some HP/TQ?
Originally Posted by Wired 24/7
Guys, you can look at the dyno charts more than one way.
On one hand, the MREV2 produced a higher peak HP and higher peak TQ number. But only slightly.
On the other hand, adding the 5/16" spacer beats the MREV2 in the top end.
It has a flatter HP peak and makes better HP up to the rev limiter.
Bottom line is:
MREV2 is the best bang for your buck.
MREV2 + 5/16" spacer is also very good and can benefit more than just the MREV2 if you get a tune
That is my take on it.
You cannot just say "OMG the 5/16" spacer lost power and that's that." That is true in one sense, but false in another.
On one hand, the MREV2 produced a higher peak HP and higher peak TQ number. But only slightly.
On the other hand, adding the 5/16" spacer beats the MREV2 in the top end.
It has a flatter HP peak and makes better HP up to the rev limiter.
Bottom line is:
MREV2 is the best bang for your buck.
MREV2 + 5/16" spacer is also very good and can benefit more than just the MREV2 if you get a tune
That is my take on it.
You cannot just say "OMG the 5/16" spacer lost power and that's that." That is true in one sense, but false in another.
Originally Posted by amG35
Hopefully someone will post another plot of a Crawford Plenum/MREV-2; but it seems that this combo will also lose power due to too much air flow???
I don't know. I imagine the crawford will also cause leaning out the AFR before 4k rpm and thus will lose some power without a tune, but I also imagine that in the higher RPM range the crawford will make better power than the MREV2 by itself.
05-12-2006, 06:27 PM
#128
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Thanks. The last question about the Crawford combo is of great importance to me because I am not going to go the tune route. So if the combo produces a 'too lean' situation that may be dangerous to the engine, I will rule out the MREV-2. I have a MREV-2 on the way so I may have to sell it before I ever install it. So now I have more threads to read and more questions to have answered. Wired 24/7, I appreciate your efforts and information in regards to the MREV-2.
Originally Posted by Wired 24/7
Okay, here you go:
Question:
Answer:
Question:
Answer:
I don't know. I imagine the crawford will also cause leaning out the AFR before 4k rpm and thus will lose some power without a tune, but I also imagine that in the higher RPM range the crawford will make better power than the MREV2 by itself.
Question:
Answer:
Question:
Answer:
I don't know. I imagine the crawford will also cause leaning out the AFR before 4k rpm and thus will lose some power without a tune, but I also imagine that in the higher RPM range the crawford will make better power than the MREV2 by itself.
05-12-2006, 08:30 PM
#129
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[QUOTE=amG35]Thanks. The last question about the Crawford combo is of great importance to me because I am not going to go the tune route. So if the combo produces a 'too lean' situation that may be dangerous to the engine, I will rule out the MREV-2. QUOTE]
Why are you ruling out the tune route if you don't mind me asking? I am in the same boat...I had an 03.5 G35 5AT and it was all done up on the intake side topped off w/a Crawford V5 and after getting the Technosquare Reflash it really tied it all togegther for me. Just an FYI. I know $500-$600 is not cheap, but it's worth it IMHO.
Why are you ruling out the tune route if you don't mind me asking? I am in the same boat...I had an 03.5 G35 5AT and it was all done up on the intake side topped off w/a Crawford V5 and after getting the Technosquare Reflash it really tied it all togegther for me. Just an FYI. I know $500-$600 is not cheap, but it's worth it IMHO.
05-13-2006, 04:52 AM
#130
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bosssho, did you happen to dyno before / after your reflash or did you get the standard TS reflash and consider it good?? I'm on the fence about this like amG35. MREV2 is in my garage as we speak but now I'm re-considering what to do. Should I sell, buy eManage or UTEC, or go the flash route? Not sure TS flash will really correct the AFR in the lower RPM's. Their site indicates that their AFR and timing adjusts are more associated with raising the rev limit than the lower rpms... Kinda feeling like a tune is the only way to go or not....making it well beyond $600 to get the real benfit of this mod.
anyone have advice?
anyone have advice?
05-13-2006, 05:11 AM
#131
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A few reasons including the $, finding someone to tune if I get UTEC or EManage, downtime if I go the Technosqaure ECU. In my situation the $122 MREV-2 is becoming a $1k+ investment. If I had the knowledge to tune with the UTEC or EManage, the decision would be easy. If you have any ideas, please let me know. Thanks.
[QUOTE=bosssho]
[QUOTE=bosssho]
Originally Posted by amG35
Thanks. The last question about the Crawford combo is of great importance to me because I am not going to go the tune route. So if the combo produces a 'too lean' situation that may be dangerous to the engine, I will rule out the MREV-2. QUOTE]
Why are you ruling out the tune route if you don't mind me asking? I am in the same boat...I had an 03.5 G35 5AT and it was all done up on the intake side topped off w/a Crawford V5 and after getting the Technosquare Reflash it really tied it all togegther for me. Just an FYI. I know $500-$600 is not cheap, but it's worth it IMHO.
Why are you ruling out the tune route if you don't mind me asking? I am in the same boat...I had an 03.5 G35 5AT and it was all done up on the intake side topped off w/a Crawford V5 and after getting the Technosquare Reflash it really tied it all togegther for me. Just an FYI. I know $500-$600 is not cheap, but it's worth it IMHO.
05-13-2006, 05:35 AM
#132
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I hear you guys. Well, LMG_35C you are in NJ, so you are actually a lot closer to Maryland and Altered Atmosphere than I am so I would go that route if I were you. They have the same software that Technosquare has, but you can drive there, get the tune, dyno your car, and get it reflashed...I am thinking of doing that...but it costs like $1000 for the whole thing...BUT...there is no down time or taking your ECU out and shipping it to CA. They also tune to 93 Octane b/c we are on the East Coast. amG35, being in FL you are probably not driving to Maryland, but it wouldn't kill ya...it may be worth it to ya. It all depends on how into your car you are and what you are using it for ya know.
On my old G35 Sedan I had the Technosquare reflash for a stock exhaust, crawford V5, and then everything else was the same...My car dynoed an avg of 235/235 RWHP/RWTQ on my old Sedan...but that was after all the mods were on which included an URUD crank pulley too.
I like you guys, was not too happy, after ordering the MREV V2 to read about lean low rpms...especially with the Crawford Plenum being on my car already...but, if you want to play you have to pay right. So we have two things going for all three of us...we are on the east coast with 93 Octane, and if you save up you can get a tune that should augment the whole package. The key recommendation is to not install both the Crawford and MREV V2 or MREV V2 and either ME Spacer unless you have all your mods on and are ready to tune.
On my old G35 Sedan I had the Technosquare reflash for a stock exhaust, crawford V5, and then everything else was the same...My car dynoed an avg of 235/235 RWHP/RWTQ on my old Sedan...but that was after all the mods were on which included an URUD crank pulley too.
I like you guys, was not too happy, after ordering the MREV V2 to read about lean low rpms...especially with the Crawford Plenum being on my car already...but, if you want to play you have to pay right. So we have two things going for all three of us...we are on the east coast with 93 Octane, and if you save up you can get a tune that should augment the whole package. The key recommendation is to not install both the Crawford and MREV V2 or MREV V2 and either ME Spacer unless you have all your mods on and are ready to tune.
05-13-2006, 06:35 AM
#133
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Good points. If I had an expert tuner closer to me in Florida, I would be off the fence and probably get the UTEC. Thanks again.
Originally Posted by bosssho
I hear you guys. Well, LMG_35C you are in NJ, so you are actually a lot closer to Maryland and Altered Atmosphere than I am so I would go that route if I were you. They have the same software that Technosquare has, but you can drive there, get the tune, dyno your car, and get it reflashed...I am thinking of doing that...but it costs like $1000 for the whole thing...BUT...there is no down time or taking your ECU out and shipping it to CA. They also tune to 93 Octane b/c we are on the East Coast. amG35, being in FL you are probably not driving to Maryland, but it wouldn't kill ya...it may be worth it to ya. It all depends on how into your car you are and what you are using it for ya know.
On my old G35 Sedan I had the Technosquare reflash for a stock exhaust, crawford V5, and then everything else was the same...My car dynoed an avg of 235/235 RWHP/RWTQ on my old Sedan...but that was after all the mods were on which included an URUD crank pulley too.
I like you guys, was not too happy, after ordering the MREV V2 to read about lean low rpms...especially with the Crawford Plenum being on my car already...but, if you want to play you have to pay right. So we have two things going for all three of us...we are on the east coast with 93 Octane, and if you save up you can get a tune that should augment the whole package. The key recommendation is to not install both the Crawford and MREV V2 or MREV V2 and either ME Spacer unless you have all your mods on and are ready to tune.
On my old G35 Sedan I had the Technosquare reflash for a stock exhaust, crawford V5, and then everything else was the same...My car dynoed an avg of 235/235 RWHP/RWTQ on my old Sedan...but that was after all the mods were on which included an URUD crank pulley too.
I like you guys, was not too happy, after ordering the MREV V2 to read about lean low rpms...especially with the Crawford Plenum being on my car already...but, if you want to play you have to pay right. So we have two things going for all three of us...we are on the east coast with 93 Octane, and if you save up you can get a tune that should augment the whole package. The key recommendation is to not install both the Crawford and MREV V2 or MREV V2 and either ME Spacer unless you have all your mods on and are ready to tune.
05-13-2006, 09:41 AM
#134
[quote=amG35]A few reasons including the $, finding someone to tune if I get UTEC or EManage, downtime if I go the Technosqaure ECU. In my situation the $122 MREV-2 is becoming a $1k+ investment. If I had the knowledge to tune with the UTEC or EManage, the decision would be easy. If you have any ideas, please let me know. Thanks.
One way to know if you need a tune or not is to install it on the dyno. I'll give you the same $100 rebate.
And as always, we have a money back guarantee. So if you don't like the results, simply return it for a full refund.
This way you don't have to worry about possible additional investment.
One way to know if you need a tune or not is to install it on the dyno. I'll give you the same $100 rebate.
And as always, we have a money back guarantee. So if you don't like the results, simply return it for a full refund.
This way you don't have to worry about possible additional investment.
05-13-2006, 09:46 AM
#135
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[QUOTE=Hydrazine]
Wow, didn't know about the money back guarantee. Now that is standing behind your product. Thanks Tony.
Originally Posted by amG35
A few reasons including the $, finding someone to tune if I get UTEC or EManage, downtime if I go the Technosqaure ECU. In my situation the $122 MREV-2 is becoming a $1k+ investment. If I had the knowledge to tune with the UTEC or EManage, the decision would be easy. If you have any ideas, please let me know. Thanks.
One way to know if you need a tune or not is to install it on the dyno. I'll give you the same $100 rebate.
And as always, we have a money back guarantee. So if you don't like the results, simply return it for a full refund.
This way you don't have to worry about possible additional investment.
One way to know if you need a tune or not is to install it on the dyno. I'll give you the same $100 rebate.
And as always, we have a money back guarantee. So if you don't like the results, simply return it for a full refund.
This way you don't have to worry about possible additional investment.
Wow, didn't know about the money back guarantee. Now that is standing behind your product. Thanks Tony.
05-13-2006, 09:52 AM
#136
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[QUOTE=amG35]
Wow, didn't know about the money back guarantee. Now that is standing behind your product. Thanks Tony.
Yeah, Tony has always said that, and offered anyone taking the time and spending the money (for now b/c we all need em) to get a dyno done a rebate too. It's very fair.
Originally Posted by Hydrazine
Wow, didn't know about the money back guarantee. Now that is standing behind your product. Thanks Tony.
05-13-2006, 10:19 AM
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[QUOTE=Hydrazine]
Thanks Tony - that's why I jumped in on this because I know you really stand behind your products. Just wish there was a simple way to monitor AFR without a dyno or expensive data log.
Maryland is still a bit too far for me...for this purpose anyways. I'm gonna see what MRC can do. If I could only find the time. Writing this while taking a break from doing a bathroom renovation - gotta get my priorities straight!
How long do I have to either decide to return it, get a dyno rebate or rebate for retuning my orig collector?????
Originally Posted by amG35
A few reasons including the $, finding someone to tune if I get UTEC or EManage, downtime if I go the Technosqaure ECU. In my situation the $122 MREV-2 is becoming a $1k+ investment. If I had the knowledge to tune with the UTEC or EManage, the decision would be easy. If you have any ideas, please let me know. Thanks.
One way to know if you need a tune or not is to install it on the dyno. I'll give you the same $100 rebate.
And as always, we have a money back guarantee. So if you don't like the results, simply return it for a full refund.
This way you don't have to worry about possible additional investment.
One way to know if you need a tune or not is to install it on the dyno. I'll give you the same $100 rebate.
And as always, we have a money back guarantee. So if you don't like the results, simply return it for a full refund.
This way you don't have to worry about possible additional investment.
Maryland is still a bit too far for me...for this purpose anyways. I'm gonna see what MRC can do. If I could only find the time. Writing this while taking a break from doing a bathroom renovation - gotta get my priorities straight!
How long do I have to either decide to return it, get a dyno rebate or rebate for retuning my orig collector?????
05-13-2006, 12:02 PM
#139
[quote=LMG_35C]
How does 3 months sound.
Modified or stock, if anyone is interested in doing a dyno install please contact me first with your test proposal.
Originally Posted by Hydrazine
How long do I have to either decide to return it, get a dyno rebate or rebate for retuning my orig collector?????
Modified or stock, if anyone is interested in doing a dyno install please contact me first with your test proposal.
05-13-2006, 12:25 PM
#140
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I have an 03 w. intake, AAM spacer, headers, test pipe,cat back and utec tune. Interested in the lower collector and iso gasket. I will be having it tuned after install so i will have dyno results. Hows the install? Never took off lower plenum. Good instructions? Re-use oem bolts? thanks