ok i assume that is a helpful suggestion and not a threat....LOL

as for my questions, I have read alot, and still don't have answers....

lets see:
the guy with toyos had the problem return
the guy who changed springs had the problem return
then there the the hunter pages with the .14 toe in spec ( not fully confirmed to fix it)
then there is the suspension bounce theory
then there is the famous rubber bushing theory on the lasercannon.com site. with the test ongoing with the mich pilots...
and if I rem correctly there is one guy in another forum who had alignment and pilots and still was saying it came back


so i really don't know anything....i've only wasted countless hours reading this stuff...trying to make heads and tails of the crap and the useful information.

now you say you have it all figured out.....well teach me wise one...i can be taught, humbled, and eat some crow along the way...

if someone has the solution...i will listen...and i intend to spend money out of pocket to fix it...forget nissan warranty...i don't want it....i wouldn't trust any mech at a dealer with my car from now on. they are just part changers.

 

Can a set of tires actually damage the suspension components? And in under 5000miles? What are these things made out of...paper??? Sounds like a strange idea to me...

Here is my GUESS after all the reading I've done in the last 6 months...for what it's worth I think once you get a stronger dampening shock installed you will solve both your bouncy ride problem and your tire feathering...I believe these are the same problem...It's the vehicles weight bouncing on the inner treads of the front tires causing them to feather...Simple eh?

Remember Occam's Razor: Always take the simplest explanation, the one that requires the fewest assumtions...

We'll see a spring/shock spec change in the future (if not already on the 2004s)...it's the only thing that will work in my humble opinion...

Dave

 

With a wear rating of 140 UTOG, the 040s are very soft, and I and many others are waiting for the adjustable Konis. Nissan already has a fix, its called the S-Tune. Just fork over a couple of $K's and you are in heaven. BTW, the Michelins I changed to are wear rated at 400 UTOG. I know they are not directly comparable, being different brands, but they're close enough.

I remember Occam's Razor very well, I have quoted it more than once on this site and others. Try doing some reading of posts several months back, this has been hashed and re-hashed since Fall of '02. I won't pay Nissan another dime to correct a problem they caused by them switching to the 040s, instead of putting on the Michelins the car was developed with, I would rather spend $6-700 on the Konis. Read the Tire Rack's Customer Reviews of the 040s since 2000!, they are abysmal. The 040s are on the 2004 Roadster, if memory serves, why would they be on the coupes?

BTW, I have a copyright on the use of Occam's Razor on this site, please send me $5. Also, have you read all 78 of the threads on this site, and others, from beginning to end? You may have missed something.

 

I have read all the 47 pages but I must have forgotten some of them...it has been a long thread...I'm guessing it's the longest thread in the history of the internet?! I've never seen one longer.

Sorry I borrowed your Occam's quote...I think I do remember seeing that here before from you. See how you've influenced my thought processes.

I'm just hoping like you that a real solution is found. And I don't think anyone here will argue the RE04s are good. And yes I did see the RE04s on a 2004 roadster last week...So that has stayed constant...soon we'll hear roadsters coming in with feathering if everything else is the same...

I have another theory about too high a Caster setting but that's been mentioned tons of times in the past so I'll skip it...The answer we want must come from Nissan, not me...

Keep at it Nissan, we're waiting...

 

I agree. I can not understand how tires can damage suspension components. I can understand how the suspension can damage tires.

We can only hope that Nissan comes up with a solution before we ruin to many of these high dollar tires!

 

There have been 1000s of tires ruined. Over 8000 preorder cars with VIN#s UNDER 4000+ were in the TSB for Tire Noise While Braking. Its doubletalk for cupping on the inside or outside tread. FORGET feathering, ITS CUPPING, AND IF THE ALIGNMENT IS WAY OUT OF SPEC LIKE MINE WAS, A SOFT TIRE WILL JUST CONTINUE TO FOLLOW THE SUSPENSION WEAR PATTERN ALREADY ESTABLISHED. MOST OF THE PREORDER CARS WERE DELIVERED OUT OF ALIGNMENT. NISSAN IS NOT PAYING FOR REPLACEMENTS, ITS BRIDGESTONE WHO IS PAYING, OR THEY ARE FIGHTING OVER THE CONTRACT. I WOULD BET THEY ARE POINTING FINGERS AT EACH OTHER WHILE WE ROT. iF YOU NEED PROOF, LOOK UP MY ALIGNMENT SETTINGS AT 350 FRENZY, IT WAS UNBELIEVEABLY BAD.

 

Boomer no offence but what proof do you have that NNA is not paying for the tires? Why would Bridgestone have to pay?
NNA bought the OEM tires for the cars from Bridgestone. There is no proof that the tires are flawed. They are not failing on other models,so why would Bridestone have to pay to replace tires on the 350Z.
The cupping is not coverd by the tire manufactures warranty. It is not like anyone has come up with a proven cause for the tire wear .
It can only be blamed on the suspention,the tire wear is dictated by the suspention settings.
In my opinion if it were only a tire problem all Z's that had a problem would get another tire. Plus if it were Bridgstones $ paying for all those tires dont you think they would choose to supply another tire for the Z? And please do not give me the hooo ha about corprate agreements and NNA can only supply one brand of tire or model of tire. NNA most likly wrote the purchasing agreement with Bridgestone. I think they would have the right to cancel or change the agreement if the supplied OEM tires were found to be defective.

 

Upon reflection, you are probably right. The alignment was the culprit and the tires were next in responding to the wrong suspension settings. My dislike of the 040s is showing, but once the cupping showed up at 4-5000 miles, the 040s did nothing to help the suspension back into compliance and the abnormal wear continued which is why the next set of tires cupped at 8-9000 miles. So the line of causation is wrong alignment settings=suspension wear=tire wear=continued tire wear=more suspension wear. For my part, Nissan needs to replace the part(s) that are worn in the suspension, make sure the alignment is correct and replace any damaged tires to fix the problem.

Instead, Nissan continues to put on new tires or now refuse to supply new tires and act like there's nothing wrong with the tires or suspension from what I am reading. Some dealers have some integrity and are still putting on tires to try and correct the problem. mindfullin thinks the suspension wear may be the lower ball joint, which is made of rubber, is the problem. If it is, Nissan has made no move to correct it. Replacing a part like that will cost a lot of money on the 30-40% of 30,000 2003 Zs sold here that have the problem and Nissan hasn't made a move. I don't believe they still don't know what the problem is after all these months.

 

Boomer
You are correct,NNA Still can't fix the problem. That is the most important fact.
NNA still has not come out with any more official alignment specs or changes. The original TSB is the only official fix.
Many of the members here have tryed other things and tires but the problem still comes back.

 

Just had my car serviced by the dealer, I have had the car since sept 02. I had winter tire on for 5 months and summer tires for 7. 12k Total miles, and the cupping showed up with 6,000 miles on the car. Dealer couldn't do the alignment so they took it to another shop to do it. The left was pretty much in spec but the right side was way out of spec. Dealer is going to get me a new set of front tires this week. I will post my specs when I get the paperwork.

 

Been reading every post so far... I have fixed problems with my SS z, ie. grease on window, grind into gear with clutch down, abnormal pulling to right. I now have about 11k miles on her and the cupping is really starting to show and sound louder than ever. Was going to just wait to reallign them when I get a new set of SSR GT3's(satin with polished lip) and new tires, but after reading that not only will my tires be damaged but also my suspension is wearing from this and in which I will have to pay to replace costing upwards of 30-40% of the total car?! I love my car, but all this is so agravating. really though, what can be expected from a first year model?
Bad idea to go with my new rims/tires after the reallignment? or should I wait 'til I can ALSO afford a new performance suspension to replaced the worn one, which the bouncing is getting annoying as well on highways?? Thanks for all your guys' input btw, you all have my gratitude and respect.

 

Calvin...I thought you were going to share the answers of this great problem with us. Do you have the answer or not. Many of us would just fix the damn problem out of pocket if we knew what to address.

 

All,
I saw in intersting quote in the September 2003 Issue of EVO Magazine (UK Sports Car Mag) about the Euro-Spec Z which I believe confirms suspension changes. See below:

Anyone else think that Nissan has a resolution but is testing it in Europe first?!?

I'm posting this here since a few of us have said from the beginning we thought the suspension was involved with this problem. The feeling was a mismatch between shocks and springs. This seems to be evidence of a change to stiffer shocks with a wider range (think little bumps). I'm also posting in the "Ride Problem" thread.

For those interested the full artcile is here:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/driven/...y.php?id=38909

 

Good catch YM. Any thoughts guys? Remember the Ripple Control shocks they introduced on the car? I smell something.

 

I just got back from dorpping my car off at the dealer once again for the tire problem. I was able to corner the Service Department GM. He drove my car for about 10 mins and when he got back we had a long talk. It seems he has a Z so is familier with the problem. He said that the feathering will happen 1) because the tire pressur is not checked and corrected once a week 2) the tires are soft and they are ment to wear like this and after 7500 miles they should be swapped (according to the TSP) then after another 7500 replaced. He also told me that if I had the 18" on with the tire pressure gage it would not happen (is this true ? I doubt it.)

One bit of information is that once the tires are swapped as suggested in the TSP it will take about 700 to 900 miles before you will feel it riding and sounding better. What you are doing is wearing down the tread to be even.

If any one is interested he did give me specs for the whole car, not just suspension, the whole car. so I have specs for the clutch the AC, brakes, electrical, everything.

 

One word "BULLSH.T"

 

Couldn't have said it better myself!!

 

This is BS!!!

1. My tire pressure is checked everyday. If its off, I correct it.
2. The tires may be soft, but I developed enough sawtooting at 4200 miles to have the TSB performed.

I'm now at 8500 miles and the noise is back. I'm getting ready to open a case with NNA, go back to the dealer, and get my tires replaced.

 

My dealer gave me the same excuse. I had rim rash from a car wash rail and they said I hit a pot hole which caused my alignment to be way off so far off they couldnt align it. THey say my frame is bent? WTF?

 

Maybe 2 words - "DUMBASS BULLSH.T"

No offense to the post - but the so-called advice given is just the worst -

Tires never need to be checked once per week to avoid this kind of wear. The soft-tread BS would apply to the entire tire - it's not a mixed compund with soft cra% at the inner edge...

His crock-o-sh#t line about 7500 miles then swap and replace at 15k is just the biggest ****-poor placebo I've seen yet.

I believe the new line about Tire Pressure is yet another line of Disinformation with one goal - delay, and oh, BTW, it's your Fault!!!