Tire FEATHERING: FYI
Originally posted by 2003z33
My dealer gave me the same excuse. I had rim rash from a car wash rail and they said I hit a pot hole which caused my alignment to be way off so far off they couldnt align it. THey say my frame is bent? WTF?
My dealer gave me the same excuse. I had rim rash from a car wash rail and they said I hit a pot hole which caused my alignment to be way off so far off they couldnt align it. THey say my frame is bent? WTF?
Last I checked your wheel is connected by a series of things called suspension parts - all of which would fail before you did anything other than major damage to the front end as a whole. There is no "frame" to bend - you can dent, deform, or crack the body of the car if you drive like James Bond, maybe....
The only thing a bad hit to a PHole would do is bend parts outboard of the car, between your wheel and the car. Oh, and maybe trash the wheel/tire. And exactly why would that produce uniform unusual wear on both sides???
If you actually hit anything hard enough to bend the front end parts that affect toe-in, you'd just be replacing parts and more likely a wheel, too.
Disinformation, Delay, Deny - a new variation on the Three D's. They're just hoping you'll buy this line of cr%p and move on, dissin' you today.
Re: the fix
Originally posted by coolmansZ
I've tried to make sense of the threads but there is too much crappy info. For you smaller minded people it takes about 8000 miles for the feathering issue to get nasty. I don't believe anyone when they say they don't have the issue and they only have 4000 miles. I think you will have the issue. Not enough information on here about tire changes either. Why? because who on here has 8000 miles on a different brand of tire? Not many people. You know what info I want? VINs and those of you who had the feathering issue return after the first alignment and new tires. I want alignments specs after your first alignment. ONLY PEOPLE WHO HAVE A REPEAT ISSUE AND THEIR ALIGNMENT SPECS AFTER THE FIRST ALIGNMENT CAN SET A TREND FOR NNA TO UNDERSTAND. THE REST OF YOU PEOPLE QUIT WASTING OUR TIME , CAUSE YOU CAN'T ESTABLISH A TREND TO WATCH.
On another note, they don't have a clue. All they have is warranty data from the dealers are repeat offenders. But if the dealer is too stupid to save them the alignment specs everytime they re-align your car, they can't develop the trend. SAVE THOSE ALIGNMENT SPECS PEOPLE. Then the can rule out whether this is truely alignment or not. For all you that have had new tires and the alignment seems to be working....you are the test bed. You will determine if the suspension in the problem. Me...it will return...give it time...if not we will have learned something. If it does return and return in great numbers of you. We know they really screwed up on the design of the suspension. If you are a repeat offender. Send me specs and Vins to this post. Please don't reply unless you have both a vin, alignment specs, and are a repeat offender.
I've tried to make sense of the threads but there is too much crappy info. For you smaller minded people it takes about 8000 miles for the feathering issue to get nasty. I don't believe anyone when they say they don't have the issue and they only have 4000 miles. I think you will have the issue. Not enough information on here about tire changes either. Why? because who on here has 8000 miles on a different brand of tire? Not many people. You know what info I want? VINs and those of you who had the feathering issue return after the first alignment and new tires. I want alignments specs after your first alignment. ONLY PEOPLE WHO HAVE A REPEAT ISSUE AND THEIR ALIGNMENT SPECS AFTER THE FIRST ALIGNMENT CAN SET A TREND FOR NNA TO UNDERSTAND. THE REST OF YOU PEOPLE QUIT WASTING OUR TIME , CAUSE YOU CAN'T ESTABLISH A TREND TO WATCH.
On another note, they don't have a clue. All they have is warranty data from the dealers are repeat offenders. But if the dealer is too stupid to save them the alignment specs everytime they re-align your car, they can't develop the trend. SAVE THOSE ALIGNMENT SPECS PEOPLE. Then the can rule out whether this is truely alignment or not. For all you that have had new tires and the alignment seems to be working....you are the test bed. You will determine if the suspension in the problem. Me...it will return...give it time...if not we will have learned something. If it does return and return in great numbers of you. We know they really screwed up on the design of the suspension. If you are a repeat offender. Send me specs and Vins to this post. Please don't reply unless you have both a vin, alignment specs, and are a repeat offender.
No personal offense, buy you need to chill. Keep the "smaller-minded" comments for someone else. Why would anyone send you jack after those comments? Be polite, show some manners.
Save the alignment specs? From whom? The dealer? I'd only trust an independent specs prior to an "initial" alignment by someone with a vested interest in telling me whatever fits the story of the day.
Many cars showed extreme wear at 3000-4000k - read the thread. Mine kicked in at just under 6k. The G35's have other tires - as do many Z owners - that show the same pattern.
1) I don't have to burn through two or more sets of tires to see otherwise very mild wear across the tire show cupping on the inner edges of the front only.
2) I don't have to give you a VIN, check this thread- it's already out there.
3)I am not the repeat offender - Nissan is.
Unsolicited advice - take your frustrations out on something else and make a positive contribution to your fellow Z owners with this problem - or get off the thread and the forum.
Originally posted by cal_z
I had the tires replaced on my 18" fronts and the noise has not returned yet. I have put about 1000 miles on them and so far, everything is O.K.. I just know that it will return and I will be frustrated again and will just have to deal with the problem! I would, though, like to get a different tire this time around! And since the buck will be coming out of my pocket this time, What would be a good 18" tire to replace the s03's with?
thanks,
calvin
I had the tires replaced on my 18" fronts and the noise has not returned yet. I have put about 1000 miles on them and so far, everything is O.K.. I just know that it will return and I will be frustrated again and will just have to deal with the problem! I would, though, like to get a different tire this time around! And since the buck will be coming out of my pocket this time, What would be a good 18" tire to replace the s03's with?
thanks,
calvin
People thinking a different tire will cure this issue are very optimistic.
If you persist, I'd suggest something with a wear range in the 800's like a Cooper Truck tire.
Originally posted by perauto1
I wonder if Saddams information minister is involved in this tire wear misinformation campaign?
I wonder if Saddams information minister is involved in this tire wear misinformation campaign?
"Bring us your tires...we'll show you our shoes."
"I have detailed information about the tire situation...which completely proves that what they allege are illusions . . . They lie every day."
"They are trapped in Cali. They are trapped near Phoenix. They are trapped near Virginia. They are trapped near NYC. They are trapped everywhere."
"Please, please! The Customers are relying on what I called yesterday a desperate and stupid method."
See:
http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/
for the real deal. So far NNA has been a poor imitation.
steveZ,
I know that the tire is not! the fix to this problem. But as far as getting another tire that I will have to pay for, I would like to get an 18" tire that is more weather responsive than the race stated tire that comes from bridgestone. I occationally get caught in the rain when I do decide to pull the Z out and this tire is terrible on rain. I want a more all season tire.(if that's possible)
As far as the fix goes, a periodic alignment will be included in my budget! The roads here in Kentucky are terrible!
As far as the tire pressure guage, I keep mine on the tire setting displayed and they stay at about 35-36lbs of pressure in the front and about32-33lbs of pressure in the rear. Speaking of the rear, has anyone ever had any problem with the rear tire wear? Just curious. Mine have worn fine.
calvin
I know that the tire is not! the fix to this problem. But as far as getting another tire that I will have to pay for, I would like to get an 18" tire that is more weather responsive than the race stated tire that comes from bridgestone. I occationally get caught in the rain when I do decide to pull the Z out and this tire is terrible on rain. I want a more all season tire.(if that's possible)
As far as the fix goes, a periodic alignment will be included in my budget! The roads here in Kentucky are terrible!
As far as the tire pressure guage, I keep mine on the tire setting displayed and they stay at about 35-36lbs of pressure in the front and about32-33lbs of pressure in the rear. Speaking of the rear, has anyone ever had any problem with the rear tire wear? Just curious. Mine have worn fine.
calvin
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
From: Richmond VA
UPDATE
MY wife and I sent NNA our Lemon Law letter about a month ago. They{NNA} were too slow to respond & fix our car by the 15th day required by VA law. We were about to file the official papers but, we decided to give NNA a 15 day extension to try and fix the car.
I was hoping they would have a NEW idea. My wife loves her Z and does not want to give it up.
Our NNA rep called us back a few days ago to set up an appointment at our local dealership to fix our Z.
I was very excited to here they were sending in a special representative from NNA to do there magic on our car.
I asked what they were going to do hoping that we were going to be one of the first ones to get "THE FIX" we have all been promised and told was coming
. Well, I hate to burst everyone's bubble but I was told they were going to align the car and install new Michelin tires like on the G35 coupe. The rep said " I am 99% sure this will fix the car"
So what does this mean? I guess I have to drive the car for a few thousand miles to watch and see if the feathering come's back. I should have told the rep that others on this board have tried this months ago and it did not work!!!!!!!
IMO I think they want to help but do not have a true fix. If I had to guess I think they want us all to give up and go away?
NNA please prove me wrong and fix my Z!!!!!
MY wife and I sent NNA our Lemon Law letter about a month ago. They{NNA} were too slow to respond & fix our car by the 15th day required by VA law. We were about to file the official papers but, we decided to give NNA a 15 day extension to try and fix the car.
I was hoping they would have a NEW idea. My wife loves her Z and does not want to give it up.
Our NNA rep called us back a few days ago to set up an appointment at our local dealership to fix our Z.
I was very excited to here they were sending in a special representative from NNA to do there magic on our car.
I asked what they were going to do hoping that we were going to be one of the first ones to get "THE FIX" we have all been promised and told was coming
. Well, I hate to burst everyone's bubble but I was told they were going to align the car and install new Michelin tires like on the G35 coupe. The rep said " I am 99% sure this will fix the car"
So what does this mean? I guess I have to drive the car for a few thousand miles to watch and see if the feathering come's back. I should have told the rep that others on this board have tried this months ago and it did not work!!!!!!!
IMO I think they want to help but do not have a true fix. If I had to guess I think they want us all to give up and go away?
NNA please prove me wrong and fix my Z!!!!!
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 278
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From: Frisco, TX
I hope you get satisfaction. I would have taken the papers and filed just to prove a point. What happens in 3000 miles and the feathering appears again? Are you stuck? Man I would have negotiated a swap for an 04 less the depreciation on my 03 and made up the difference. Good luck!
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
From: Richmond VA
EZCHIEF
Good question.... We have not given up our rights to file a lemon law case. I have plenty of time under the VA law to continue our case. Lets just say it is on hold. I want to give them a fair chance to fix the car.
The object here is to fix the car. I do not want to go throught the hassles of the buy back if we do not have too, but I will if the car is not fixed.
If NNA thinks they can fix it than I am happy to give them a shot.
If the feathering/cupping comes back I will continue with my case.
P.S . for those who have not followed all the threads this will be the third set of front tires counting the originals.
Good question.... We have not given up our rights to file a lemon law case. I have plenty of time under the VA law to continue our case. Lets just say it is on hold. I want to give them a fair chance to fix the car.
The object here is to fix the car. I do not want to go throught the hassles of the buy back if we do not have too, but I will if the car is not fixed.
If NNA thinks they can fix it than I am happy to give them a shot.
If the feathering/cupping comes back I will continue with my case.
P.S . for those who have not followed all the threads this will be the third set of front tires counting the originals.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
From: San Francisco
Don't Believe this kind of BS!!!!
Originally posted by Ghostlight
I just got back from dorpping my car off at the dealer once again for the tire problem. I was able to corner the Service Department GM. He drove my car for about 10 mins and when he got back we had a long talk. It seems he has a Z so is familier with the problem. He said that the feathering will happen 1) because the tire pressur is not checked and corrected once a week 2) the tires are soft and they are ment to wear like this and after 7500 miles they should be swapped (according to the TSP) then after another 7500 replaced. He also told me that if I had the 18" on with the tire pressure gage it would not happen (is this true ? I doubt it.)
One bit of information is that once the tires are swapped as suggested in the TSP it will take about 700 to 900 miles before you will feel it riding and sounding better. What you are doing is wearing down the tread to be even.
If any one is interested he did give me specs for the whole car, not just suspension, the whole car. so I have specs for the clutch the AC, brakes, electrical, everything.
I just got back from dorpping my car off at the dealer once again for the tire problem. I was able to corner the Service Department GM. He drove my car for about 10 mins and when he got back we had a long talk. It seems he has a Z so is familier with the problem. He said that the feathering will happen 1) because the tire pressur is not checked and corrected once a week 2) the tires are soft and they are ment to wear like this and after 7500 miles they should be swapped (according to the TSP) then after another 7500 replaced. He also told me that if I had the 18" on with the tire pressure gage it would not happen (is this true ? I doubt it.)
One bit of information is that once the tires are swapped as suggested in the TSP it will take about 700 to 900 miles before you will feel it riding and sounding better. What you are doing is wearing down the tread to be even.
If any one is interested he did give me specs for the whole car, not just suspension, the whole car. so I have specs for the clutch the AC, brakes, electrical, everything.
Do NOT let your dealerships pull this kind of BS over your eyes! There is a major problem with either the suspenssion or the castor settings on our cars. Nissan knows there is a problem, but they are keeping quite and hoping that we 350Z owners will just accept their BS and not get organized to fight this type of crap! The more vocal we ALL get to the publishers of car magazines and webs sites the better chance we have at getting Nissan to respond with a fix.
Demad New tires from the dealer and make sure you keep calling NNA and make them authorize new tires to be put on your car. Swapping the tires from right to left does not do anything but hid the problem for a very short time. It is NOT a fix.
If you want to be added to my, and 35 other 350Z owners email list send me an email at mindfullivin@yahoo.com
Ian
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
From: TX
I took my 350 in to the dealer yesterday to have the alignment checked because:
(a) the 1-year warrantee was about to expire.
(b) I only have 3k miles on the 350.
(c) I've read on this board that if you catch an out-of-alignment problem early, you could avoid feathering (wishful thinking?).
The Service Director asked "Do you have feathering?" Nope.
"Is it pulling to the right (or left)?" Nope. "Does it make noise when you stop?" Nope. "Then WTF are you doing here" (he was thinking). I explained (a), (b), and (c), and to placate me they checked it on their HUNTER equipment - I was fully expecting it to check out okay, and have to pay the bill.
If their specs are correct, and if I read the printout correctly, all 4 wheels were out of whack, some worse than others.
Toe Front Specified Range: 0 to +0.08
Right Before: -0.03 After: +0.05
Left Before: -0.21 After: +0.06 (could it have been -0.21???)
Toe Rear Specified Range: +0.01 to +0.07
Right Befoe: -0.07 After: +0.04
Left Before: -0.05 After: +0.07
Total Toe Specified Range: +0.02 to +0.14
Before: -0.11 After: +0.11
Seems to me they made some major alignment changes, but I'm not a suspension expert. Maybe they recently changed the specs from - to + ?
(a) the 1-year warrantee was about to expire.
(b) I only have 3k miles on the 350.
(c) I've read on this board that if you catch an out-of-alignment problem early, you could avoid feathering (wishful thinking?).
The Service Director asked "Do you have feathering?" Nope.
"Is it pulling to the right (or left)?" Nope. "Does it make noise when you stop?" Nope. "Then WTF are you doing here" (he was thinking). I explained (a), (b), and (c), and to placate me they checked it on their HUNTER equipment - I was fully expecting it to check out okay, and have to pay the bill.
If their specs are correct, and if I read the printout correctly, all 4 wheels were out of whack, some worse than others.
Toe Front Specified Range: 0 to +0.08
Right Before: -0.03 After: +0.05
Left Before: -0.21 After: +0.06 (could it have been -0.21???)
Toe Rear Specified Range: +0.01 to +0.07
Right Befoe: -0.07 After: +0.04
Left Before: -0.05 After: +0.07
Total Toe Specified Range: +0.02 to +0.14
Before: -0.11 After: +0.11
Seems to me they made some major alignment changes, but I'm not a suspension expert. Maybe they recently changed the specs from - to + ?
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,399
Likes: 0
Originally posted by ztom
I took my 350 in to the dealer yesterday to have the alignment checked because:
(a) the 1-year warrantee was about to expire.
(b) I only have 3k miles on the 350.
(c) I've read on this board that if you catch an out-of-alignment problem early, you could avoid feathering (wishful thinking?).
The Service Director asked "Do you have feathering?" Nope.
"Is it pulling to the right (or left)?" Nope. "Does it make noise when you stop?" Nope. "Then WTF are you doing here" (he was thinking). I explained (a), (b), and (c), and to placate me they checked it on their HUNTER equipment - I was fully expecting it to check out okay, and have to pay the bill.
If their specs are correct, and if I read the printout correctly, all 4 wheels were out of whack, some worse than others.
Toe Front Specified Range: 0 to +0.08
Right Before: -0.03 After: +0.05
Left Before: -0.21 After: +0.06 (could it have been -0.21???)
Toe Rear Specified Range: +0.01 to +0.07
Right Befoe: -0.07 After: +0.04
Left Before: -0.05 After: +0.07
Total Toe Specified Range: +0.02 to +0.14
Before: -0.11 After: +0.11
Seems to me they made some major alignment changes, but I'm not a suspension expert. Maybe they recently changed the specs from - to + ?
I took my 350 in to the dealer yesterday to have the alignment checked because:
(a) the 1-year warrantee was about to expire.
(b) I only have 3k miles on the 350.
(c) I've read on this board that if you catch an out-of-alignment problem early, you could avoid feathering (wishful thinking?).
The Service Director asked "Do you have feathering?" Nope.
"Is it pulling to the right (or left)?" Nope. "Does it make noise when you stop?" Nope. "Then WTF are you doing here" (he was thinking). I explained (a), (b), and (c), and to placate me they checked it on their HUNTER equipment - I was fully expecting it to check out okay, and have to pay the bill.
If their specs are correct, and if I read the printout correctly, all 4 wheels were out of whack, some worse than others.
Toe Front Specified Range: 0 to +0.08
Right Before: -0.03 After: +0.05
Left Before: -0.21 After: +0.06 (could it have been -0.21???)
Toe Rear Specified Range: +0.01 to +0.07
Right Befoe: -0.07 After: +0.04
Left Before: -0.05 After: +0.07
Total Toe Specified Range: +0.02 to +0.14
Before: -0.11 After: +0.11
Seems to me they made some major alignment changes, but I'm not a suspension expert. Maybe they recently changed the specs from - to + ?
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,671
Likes: 0
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posted this to two other "threads" today, but lets hope I am not out with three? This is what happened today 9/10/2003.
Current mileage 17,300. Reported noise problem during 11,000 mile service. Nissan Dealer says, "Master Tech. not available, lets look at during 15,000 mile service". At 15,000 mile service, Nissan Master Tech. sees "feathering/cupping" and agrees there is "significant" noise between 30-40 mph, especially when braking. Appointment scheduled to perform TSB on 9/5/2003. Master Tech. on vacation, so rescheduled for 9/9/2003. Results:
1. TSB performed including dismounting tires and rotate.
2. Nissan Tech advises "Car ready, but you are not going to like! Sounds like you are driving a truck with "mud tires"
3. I have filed case with Nissan1, so called and discussed. She in turn called the dealer.
4. My options were to replace front OEM tires (Potenza) under warranty or buy tires of my choice and file claim for difference between two OEM's and tires of my choice ( two or four).
5. OEM's will be replaced at "no cost". So was advised: You know what to look for and what to listen for, so keep replacing the OEM fronts under warranty until rears need replacing. Then replace all four (4) with tires of my choice and file claim for difference.
6. OEM front tires on order.
Am I lucky? Can't say! I can say however there is a big difference in the way different dealers deal with the problem. At this point I am happy with mine given what I have read on previous threads. I guess they could have waived the 12,000 miles in my face and said take a walk. Tim and Andy did not!
Current mileage 17,300. Reported noise problem during 11,000 mile service. Nissan Dealer says, "Master Tech. not available, lets look at during 15,000 mile service". At 15,000 mile service, Nissan Master Tech. sees "feathering/cupping" and agrees there is "significant" noise between 30-40 mph, especially when braking. Appointment scheduled to perform TSB on 9/5/2003. Master Tech. on vacation, so rescheduled for 9/9/2003. Results:
1. TSB performed including dismounting tires and rotate.
2. Nissan Tech advises "Car ready, but you are not going to like! Sounds like you are driving a truck with "mud tires"
3. I have filed case with Nissan1, so called and discussed. She in turn called the dealer.
4. My options were to replace front OEM tires (Potenza) under warranty or buy tires of my choice and file claim for difference between two OEM's and tires of my choice ( two or four).
5. OEM's will be replaced at "no cost". So was advised: You know what to look for and what to listen for, so keep replacing the OEM fronts under warranty until rears need replacing. Then replace all four (4) with tires of my choice and file claim for difference.
6. OEM front tires on order.
Am I lucky? Can't say! I can say however there is a big difference in the way different dealers deal with the problem. At this point I am happy with mine given what I have read on previous threads. I guess they could have waived the 12,000 miles in my face and said take a walk. Tim and Andy did not!
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
From: Bensalem, PA
Went to Nissan Dealership (2750 miles)
I was at the Nissan dealership borrowing a spoiler template so I figured I might as well ask about tire feathering..
He told me that if I hear noise or see cupping, bring the car in and they will rotate the tires, if this does not help, they will replace the two front tires and re-align the car.. bleh I'd rather them be pro-active instead of re-active but sounds like they will do what it takes to make it right so I'll just wait and see.
He told me that if I hear noise or see cupping, bring the car in and they will rotate the tires, if this does not help, they will replace the two front tires and re-align the car.. bleh I'd rather them be pro-active instead of re-active but sounds like they will do what it takes to make it right so I'll just wait and see.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Work in LA live in SF Bay Are
I picked up my car yesterday and they had done the suggested TSP on the tires. As of right now I am very happy with how the car is running. Reminds me of why I got the car in the first place.
The only thing looming is of course that the cupping / noise will return in another 7000mi. Untill then I will keep reading posts and enjoy my ride for now.
The only thing looming is of course that the cupping / noise will return in another 7000mi. Untill then I will keep reading posts and enjoy my ride for now.
Some days it is better not to type.
Pics of my tires
Besides the cupping and other wear issues, in 6000 miles my inner tires (front) had worn at twice the rate of the outer tires.
Hope these pics are clear enough. Pls keep in mind they have been swapped side to side so what was on the inner side is now on the outside.
Downside of the TSB fix for swapping side to side fronts is tire noise and no longer quiet and smooth ride.
Anyway, if the pics post well you can easily see what this looks like.
Steve
Hope these pics are clear enough. Pls keep in mind they have been swapped side to side so what was on the inner side is now on the outside.
Downside of the TSB fix for swapping side to side fronts is tire noise and no longer quiet and smooth ride.
Anyway, if the pics post well you can easily see what this looks like.
Steve
Second Set of Pics
The first pic you can see
1. Tread depth on what used to be the outer tread
2. The curves and abnormal wear of the feather/cupped tread on the right side (before swap was inner side)
If you can see the distance on the quarter from one side to the other, the feathering chewed up the tread 2x the rate. Plus, notice the tread blocks that were on the outside look very good, no radical wear, and this is now at 8600 miles.
1. Tread depth on what used to be the outer tread
2. The curves and abnormal wear of the feather/cupped tread on the right side (before swap was inner side)
If you can see the distance on the quarter from one side to the other, the feathering chewed up the tread 2x the rate. Plus, notice the tread blocks that were on the outside look very good, no radical wear, and this is now at 8600 miles.