I see you people badgering each other back and forth about whos ideas are right/wrong so I just had to add a fews comments of my own.

Tires do not damage the suspension parts. Suspension parts "if not properly aligned" can cause tire damage,but once tires do get damaged they can cause premature where of suspension parts.

Front End Alignment is a combination of three factors:
1) Toe
2) Camber
3) Castor

The first "Toe in/out" does not cause Feathering, it does make it show up much faster if the Toe is not set properly as it causes too much scrubbing affect on the inside or outside of the tires.

A mis-match of Camber and/or Castor angles causes Feathering ( its usually a Castor angle mis-match ). In either case when the Camber/Castor angle on one side does not match the Camber/Castor angle on the other side a oscilation effect is setup when ever you hit a bump in the road and the side with the lesser angle reacts first fighting the other side.

It is like giving your right arm a 3 foot pipe wrench and your left arm a 2 foot pipe wrench and then attempting to unscrew the pipe. The right arm will think it is winning but all it is doing is backing up the left arm. When you realize what is happening ( the ripple adjustment shocks kick in ) and let off some of the pressure on the right arm the left arm over compensates and the oscilation effect is setup.

I have the Feathering problem on my 350Z and I also have unequal Camber/Castor settings which cannot be corrected with the original equipment suspension. Nissans own alignment print outs confirm the unequal ( and out of spec ) settings but they insist there is nothing they can do about it either.

Is this a bad design and poor quality control problem, Yes.

What can be done about it, I could resort to a Lemon Law case and force Nissan to take the car back but I like my car and just want to get it fixed. I also believe it is going to be cheaper to get after market parts and fix it myself once the 12K mile alignment warrantly expires. I am currently waiting on K-MAC to release there replacement Fornt End kit and will then just fix it myself.

 

First of all I do not claim to have all or any of the answers nor do I wish to badger anyone except possibly Nissan. If I was overly confrontational with you Boomer then I apologize. Taking my Z in for service, particularly when I know beforehand that it will likely come out in worse shape then it went in is a traumatic experience for me. In any case I would like to discuss your ideas in more detail Mr. Clown.

Assuming for the sake of argument that your are correct and that the problem, and I don't believe feathering or cupping as those terms have been used in the past applies, is caused by a camber or castor mismatch would this not be commonplace on almost every production vehicle sports car or not? Take my numbers for example. The first alignment showed a left to right camber mismatch of only .3 and a castor mismatch of .4 degrees (both measurements are in spec as well). The second alignment (different machine, different dealer) was totally consistent at .3 and .4 degrees respectively. This is not alot. Possibly even near the machine's margin of error. So my question is would you expect better numbers than this on any production vehicle? I'm guessing not.

 

How about giving us the link for K-MAC and tell us why you think their kit will be the fix? Also, how much do you think it will cost? Thanks

 

Think nothing of unloading on me, I unloaded on you and really all we want is a fix for the problem and Nissan doesn't seem to care one way or the other. I am upset with how sloppy their icon, the 350Z, is constructed. I'm at 5700+ miles and every suspension setting is within spec, I had a re-alignment a few 100 miles ago after hitting a 4x4 board on a turnpike.

I will be putting 3000+ miles in about 10 days a few days from now and let's see if my tires live through the experience of I40 west to northern N.MEX and back again. I'm really curious to see if my expensive Michelins get eaten.

 

Hi Bommer,

The URL for K-MAC is as follows: http://www.k-mac.com.au/makes/nissan.htm#tri

They are the only 3rd party supplier that I know of that is even building ( adjustable ) replacement "Front End' suspension parts for the 350Z.


There is another thread here on this site that has discussed this quite a bit.
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=25527

 

For those who do not believe my comments about Feathering being caused by improper Caster angle here is a URL to Discount Tires site where they described it in detail.

http://www.discounttire.com/dtc/broc...iRagmmTLCHeXwX!-321574165!1839836018

I hope it does not expire before you can open it. If it does then just got to: http://www.discounttire.com/dtc/home.jsp and then click on the "InfoCenter" tab and then the "Wheel Alignment" link.

 

I do remember reading the Discount Tire analysis and I have a question. Has anyone ever contacted Nissan Engineering and pointed out the obvious and received any feedback as to why Nissan isn't admitting the problem is improper caster? Is it not correctable w/o going to the aftermarket?

Is it just Nissan's policy to stiff the owners of 350Zs with this problem and just wait until the 12 month warranty is up and no more tires and no fix? Other threads have recently revealed at least some of the 2004s are coming in from Japan out of alignment and with several of the 2003s problems? Do they care? I never see any such evidence on the Z sites I read. I have bought 5 Nissans and currently own 2. Am I going to see my cars' devalued for lack of support from Nissan International? How prevalent are these problems in other Int'l markets?

Boomer--I remain bewildered by the lack of answers to my questions that I have asked before. What happened to ZISME? Who replaced him?

 

I'd like to chime in on this thread.
My tires are feathering now at 5000 miles. The dealer said they would do an alignment to solve the problem. They will not give me new tires because they said I have low mileage and the roaring sound will go away at about 4000 miles so the tread will be back to normal. Anyone else get new tires when their Z was at about 5000 miles?

 

Once your tires are cupped/Feathered they will not smooth out, What the dealer is telling you is BS.
You need to demand new tires. The mileage is not an issue ,your dealer is lazy and uninformed.

 

My dealer has been looking at mine starting at 11,000 miles. He finally ordered OEM front tires under warranty at 17,000 after performing TSB and talking to NNA.

 

Call NNA and file a complaint about the tires and tell them what the dealer said. Why should you have to listen the the tires roaring for another 4000 or 5000 miles when it has already been demonstrated that rotating doesn't fix the tires or the obnoxious noise. You bought a new car and new cars are not supposed to sound like that, especially for several 1000 miles more. Tell NNA you expect new tires, not the bandaid swap that does NOT WORK.

Be polite, but firm. They have been handing out new tires for several weeks now since the swap didn't work. This is now common knowledge in all Z sitesand NNA knows it is and they have been OK ing new tires, low milage may have been the old directive, but it isn't now. Your dealer is about 3 steps slow on this problem. I'd look for a more knowledgable dealer, too.

 

here my deal.....

had dealership do swap and alignment around 5,000.

then called NNA around 10,000 to tell them that we did the swap and the problem still exists, that i want new tires. so they called my dealership and they said they would order them.

took my car in around 11,000 for the dealership to confirm the problem still exists and they said they orderd the tires and they should be here in a week. but i told them that they are on national back order and the service guy said no.

went today to get my tires put on and GUESS WHAT, they're a different style bridgestone and the service manager said they were on back order.....DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

is there any way i could call NNA and have them get me Michelin's or something? even if i paid the difference. has anybody been successful receiving different tires? i mean, i could be w/o tires for another 5,000 miles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I seen only one (1) post where the owner was allowed to pay the difference between the OE tires and the different tire he wanted and that was from the dealer, I believe. I would call NNA anyway and tell them your tires they authorized are unavailable and you shouldn't have to wait a long time to get them and see if they will authorize different tires. Good luck.

 

I have 28k on my Track model now. Alignment at 11k, front tires replaced at 24k. Now, with 3800 on new RE040s, the issue is returning. I have left a message with NNA and I'm going to try a different dealership for repairs.
I took it in at 17k (6k after alignment) and the dealership decided to order tires for me. They were on back-order until I called NNA, pretty close to seven weeks. Suddenly, out of nowhere, a pair of Bridgestones. I say the whole back-order thing is BS. If your dealership has to have those tires, they'll get them.
I don't expect Nissan to fix this problem. It would cost too much to have a recall on suspension parts. They will try to passify us until the number of serious complaints dwindles with time.

 

So far so good - the drifting is gone. It was very bad under hard braking, now brakes straight, no drifting around. The steering "feel" is much tighter, makes me think I just didn't notice the slow slop working into some part.

Nothing to do with the tire wear, though.

Re: Rims - if they scratched or dented your door when the car was in for service would you demand repair or replacement? Why would you settle for less with what are still relatively expensive wheels?

Tough part may be with a tire company is check the fine print where they ask you to sign off that they're not liable for incidental damage...

I'd ask nicely, then demand new rims.

 

1) Search this forum for the seat clunk - there is a good post with details on how to deal with, if this is the seat rocking slightly side to side (hard for others to notice if they don't drive the car, I've found).

2) Compare your Camber to some of the other specs in this thread. Since it cannot be adjusted, you have what you have.

3) Toe-in alignment is a bunch of BS for this issue - might make it worse, but the feathering/cupping is caused by the mysterious "something else"...alignment isn't addressing the problem.

 

Hey guys,

New to this forum. I've been considering buying a 350z ( 2004 Super Black, Touring, 6MT).

I starting reading about this tire feathering issue and asked the sales rep I've been e-mailing about it and included information I've read on this forum. He said he spoke to his service manager and this is the reply that he sent back:

____________________________

I spoke to **** ***; he is our service manager. This problem was caused by the vehicle braking. When the 350 stopped from a high rate of speed the front tires toed out. Over time this caused the calipers to be out of balance and to show ware on the tires. There was a bulletin on this issue and the vehicle has been corrected for any further issues. The bulletin stated to tighten the calipers to not allow the tow out. Every 350Z produced since then has been corrected at the factory level.
I do not know where this person got service done on his/her vehicle. Also I do not know the type of driving this customer did. I do know that we had these issues and were able to get them corrected for the customer by Nissan.
Our dealership won the 2002 Excellence award by Nissan. This award was won by only 38 dealerships in the nation out of 1200+! Only 2 dealerships in Houston won that award and that was done by Both Baker Jackson Nissans (there is one on 610 as well)! To win this award we had to exceed on all levels. Including Sales Penetration, Parts Penetration, Body Shop Penetration, and the most important Customer satisfaction at all three departments!

If you have any other concerns please let me know or you can contact **** ***(service director) at 281-897-1660.

I look forward to earning your business. Please let me know if you plan to come out since I want to give you 100% of my attention.
_________________________________


Any opinions?

 

WTF do calipers have to do with toe. Sounds like BS to me. Toe is alignment. Calipers are brakes. Right?

 

This must be a private bulletin of some type; as there is only one TSB on the roaring noise.

On the other hand, it does seem as the dealerships are now voluntarily swapping out the tires with little hessitation as if they have a final solution. I'm still low miles on my new Z so may just take it in to double check everything for preventive measures...I have been hesitating to hav eit all checked since it is driving perfectly aligned & all...and would hate to get it back differently -- but I'll have it checked as soon as there is a final word on the feathering...

 

Well, yes.

I have no idea if this could affect the toe-in in the manner described.