Tire FEATHERING: FYI
10-28-2003, 06:59 PM
#1161
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Originally posted by BlueDragonZ
Ok, I've been following this thread and a few others regarding this. My car will probably roll over to 6,000 miles this week. I've been monitoring all four tires and I don't believe that I have this problem (knock on wood). I'm going to Goodyear tomorrow and have their tech look at my tires to verify this notion. Looking at my tires, I don't really have any sign of wear on the inside or outside.
I've looked at the photos that have been posted and my tires doesn't match them. Am I looking at them wrong?
Ok, I've been following this thread and a few others regarding this. My car will probably roll over to 6,000 miles this week. I've been monitoring all four tires and I don't believe that I have this problem (knock on wood). I'm going to Goodyear tomorrow and have their tech look at my tires to verify this notion. Looking at my tires, I don't really have any sign of wear on the inside or outside.
I've looked at the photos that have been posted and my tires doesn't match them. Am I looking at them wrong?
Thanks
10-29-2003, 08:19 AM
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Re: Re: It is NOT the number of miles!
Originally posted by Pit Bull
The Acura NSX is set up so the tires "scrub" and wearout in 10K - 15K miles. The alignment can be changed and you will get 5K - 10K additional miles from the tires but the handling changes for the worse. Has anyone noticed a change in handling after their Z was realigned? Are the tires wearing better/longer after the alignment change? Are the lucky owners that had Michelins installed as replacements noticing better wear and mileage after the new tires and realignment? Also what is this "design flaw" you are talking about? Has this been Identified by Nissan? Is this the alignment problem? Will it not hold the alignment? Please explain??? Also I agree that cupping is not acceptable, but is it just the car or is it the OEM tires and the car? Does a different set of tires and an alignment fix the problem? Have a lot of members getting alignments and new tires but no one seems to know what the problem is, other than I want it to stop and I want a new car and blah blah blah. Sorry someone either needs to lead, follow or get out of the way.
I guess I don't understand what you guys talk to Nissan or the dealer about when your car has this problem and they realign it and give you new tires??? Example questions might be - What caused this to happen? What was done to make sure it never happens again? Now I will play dealer - we realigned it and now the tires will wear OK. Problem comes back and now I am at the dealer and they check the alignment and it is OK but the tires are cupping and they want to replace them. Question, why is it cupping if the alignment is OK? Ok you get my drift. Anyone have the answers??? Not trying to be a smart *** just want to find out whats up before I have the problem and have a leg up on the dealer and Nissan.
The Acura NSX is set up so the tires "scrub" and wearout in 10K - 15K miles. The alignment can be changed and you will get 5K - 10K additional miles from the tires but the handling changes for the worse. Has anyone noticed a change in handling after their Z was realigned? Are the tires wearing better/longer after the alignment change? Are the lucky owners that had Michelins installed as replacements noticing better wear and mileage after the new tires and realignment? Also what is this "design flaw" you are talking about? Has this been Identified by Nissan? Is this the alignment problem? Will it not hold the alignment? Please explain??? Also I agree that cupping is not acceptable, but is it just the car or is it the OEM tires and the car? Does a different set of tires and an alignment fix the problem? Have a lot of members getting alignments and new tires but no one seems to know what the problem is, other than I want it to stop and I want a new car and blah blah blah. Sorry someone either needs to lead, follow or get out of the way.
I guess I don't understand what you guys talk to Nissan or the dealer about when your car has this problem and they realign it and give you new tires??? Example questions might be - What caused this to happen? What was done to make sure it never happens again? Now I will play dealer - we realigned it and now the tires will wear OK. Problem comes back and now I am at the dealer and they check the alignment and it is OK but the tires are cupping and they want to replace them. Question, why is it cupping if the alignment is OK? Ok you get my drift. Anyone have the answers??? Not trying to be a smart *** just want to find out whats up before I have the problem and have a leg up on the dealer and Nissan.
Pit Bull you have not been following the thread very closely or you would know that most if not all of your questions have been answered previously.
1) Has anyone noticed a change in handling after their Z was realigned?
A: Yes. There is a slight change in the "turn-in" response. It is not quite as sharp as with the more agressive toe settings.
2) Are the tires wearing better/longer after the alignment change?
A: Yes. The tires do NOT wear as fast with the "less-agressive" toes settings, however, the cupping is still happening after the new alignment specs.
3) Are the lucky owners that had Michelins installed as replacements noticing better wear and mileage after the new tires and realignment?
A: Yes. The OEM 040's suck! The Pilot Sports are much better in both handeling & better wear with no visible signs of cupping at 6k, so far. (ie Boomer has Pilots w/6000 miles and I have 3000 miles on mine with no signs of cupping, yet)
4) What is this "design flaw" you are talking about?
A: If you had been following the thread closer OR longer you would know that ONLY the toe is adjustable the rest of the alignment settings are fixed by the "design" of the car. (ie control arms (lower & upper) are set in fixed positions)
Without a after market kit you can NOT change the Caster or Camber settings. I believe, after speaking to many mechanics and import tunners that the problem lies in the Caster settings. They are too agressive for an everyday driver at speeds of 20 mph - 80 mph. The agressive Caster settings cause the tires to wear in a "heal-toe" pattern on the inside or outside tread blocks.
5) Has this been Identified by Nissan?
A: I believe that Nissan knows of the problem, but is trying to keep the problem hidden from the 350Z owners in order to save on cost of a recall.
I believe Nissan thinks that we are not smart enough to organize ourselves in order to force attention to the problem. And I am begining to believe that also. I have been trying to organize our efforts for a LONG time now and I have 42 Z owners on my list, but that is VERY small group of people when compared to the number of Z's on the road.
6) Does a different set of tires and an alignment fix the problem?
A: A new alignment slows the progression of the cupping but does NOT fix the problem. New tires (ie Pilots Sports; the only tire I am following at this time) with the new alignment may reduce the cupping to the point where you maybe able to get 20,000 miles out of the tire. I am following a few owners with Pilots, including myself. Boomer has 6000 miles and I have 3000 miles.
7) Why is it cupping if the alignment is OK?
A: Caster is the problem. "alignment is OK" No the alignment is not OK!
8) Here is my question: What is the solution to this problem?
A: I believe Nissan needs to do a RECALL. They need to change the Lower Control arms to bring the Caster setting in less agressive stance so that the tires will ride and wear evenly across the whole tread patch. This may even improve handeling. When the tires have the whole tread patch on the ground, you have better control of the car.
10-29-2003, 09:21 AM
#1163
That is allllllllllllllllll of it in a nut shell!!!!!!!!!! with a side order of fries! The intent of the car is to perform. We as the public are not performing in this car on a daily basis due to laws of the roads. The settings are simply too aggressive! But when the car is tested agains the porsche or the mustang, it is doing its job. Dominating the coarse was the intent of the engineers. They did it. But for those of us who casually drive the car, we are not really understanding what we have purchased.
Yes, nissan should make a performance car flawless for those of us who want to drive casually and occationally show a fellow driver why it was rated above there car. To have both is the thing they haven't mastered. For what the car will do, it is perfect and without loss of perfomance. But just like putting a set of cross-drilled, slotted rotors on your car, it makes the brakes perform better and more aggressive, but no one has ever though that replacing brake pads become more often done and gets more expensive. They just haven't come up with a way to have your cake and eat it too!
calvin
ss,touring,3m bra,LEDs,DVDplayer,7"widescreen,cargo net(vertical and horizontal)k&n shhhhhh, pullies shhhhh!
Yes, nissan should make a performance car flawless for those of us who want to drive casually and occationally show a fellow driver why it was rated above there car. To have both is the thing they haven't mastered. For what the car will do, it is perfect and without loss of perfomance. But just like putting a set of cross-drilled, slotted rotors on your car, it makes the brakes perform better and more aggressive, but no one has ever though that replacing brake pads become more often done and gets more expensive. They just haven't come up with a way to have your cake and eat it too!
calvin
ss,touring,3m bra,LEDs,DVDplayer,7"widescreen,cargo net(vertical and horizontal)k&n shhhhhh, pullies shhhhh!
Last edited by cal_z; 10-29-2003 at 09:27 AM.
10-29-2003, 09:37 AM
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S03's with feathering
FYI, I had my RE040's go bad at about 5000 miles. Had car re-aligned and Nissan gave me new S03's as replacement for all 4 tires.
Since then I have about 6500 miles on them and the fronts are just starting to show some signs of abnormal wear. I sort of expected this given that the S03's have a higher tread wear rating then the RE040's -- it should take longer. The Pilots will take even longer to feather but it will happen.
Can someone explain what it is about the aggressive caster settings that can cause this. I am not clear how caster causes heal - toe wear patterns?
Since then I have about 6500 miles on them and the fronts are just starting to show some signs of abnormal wear. I sort of expected this given that the S03's have a higher tread wear rating then the RE040's -- it should take longer. The Pilots will take even longer to feather but it will happen.
Can someone explain what it is about the aggressive caster settings that can cause this. I am not clear how caster causes heal - toe wear patterns?
10-29-2003, 01:18 PM
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I go in next week for this i have 12,000 miles. I have owned the car since 5,000 miles. I called 4 dealers and only one has heard of it. He will not replace my tires due to them eating over 3 grand from this problem already, I asked him i oayed 39,000 for mine and you expect me to pay for anothe 600 every 4 months? he said to call the tire manufacturer and they will replace the tires. I will let you all know how it turns out!
This should be fun!
This should be fun!
10-29-2003, 02:55 PM
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kawataworks
Good post, thanks for all of the information. I will keep a close eye on mine and become Nissan's worst nightmare. I retired young and don't have anything better to do
Good post, thanks for all of the information. I will keep a close eye on mine and become Nissan's worst nightmare. I retired young and don't have anything better to do
10-30-2003, 01:12 AM
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Ive got about 9500mi on my Z and i started noticing the noise at about 8500mi. i went to my local dealer and the mechanic showed me the TSB. It basically said this problem applies to 350zs produced before May of 2003 and yes their solution is to swap the left front w/ the right front and re-align. The TSB actually showed the vin # of the cars affected. I think its B/S that they didnt notify us via e-mail or letter telling us of this issue. Im gonna go to the dealer tomorrow and try to get new tires and re-alignment done for free. Thanks for the Niss cons Affairs # Enforcer im definatley gonna call them too. Good Luck to you guys on this problem. ill keep you posted on my attempt to get this rectified.
kobadoba
kobadoba
10-30-2003, 06:43 AM
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Handling Issues due to feathering?!?
Has anyone experienced handling issues due to this problem?
A few days ago on my way to work, I unexplainedly loss control of my Z and crashed. My fronts are feathered pretty bad and the backs are starting to show the wear bars. It was raining kind of hard, but not to the point where I should have hydroplaned out of control.
I can tell you this.. the Z is solidly built! I hit a retaining wall at what must've been at least 45 mph. I'm going to need the front bumper with its supports/brackets and a hood, that's it! The car did three 360s before coming to a rest and I feel lucky to be alive. But, damn! I'm suprised there isnt more extensive damage.
I was looking at putting on a body kit, but this made the decision for me.
A few days ago on my way to work, I unexplainedly loss control of my Z and crashed. My fronts are feathered pretty bad and the backs are starting to show the wear bars. It was raining kind of hard, but not to the point where I should have hydroplaned out of control.
I can tell you this.. the Z is solidly built! I hit a retaining wall at what must've been at least 45 mph. I'm going to need the front bumper with its supports/brackets and a hood, that's it! The car did three 360s before coming to a rest and I feel lucky to be alive. But, damn! I'm suprised there isnt more extensive damage.
I was looking at putting on a body kit, but this made the decision for me.
Last edited by PGH350z; 10-30-2003 at 06:46 AM.
10-30-2003, 07:12 AM
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Re: Handling Issues due to feathering?!?
Originally posted by PGH350z
Has anyone experienced handling issues due to this problem?
A few days ago on my way to work, I unexplainedly loss control of my Z and crashed. My fronts are feathered pretty bad and the backs are starting to show the wear bars. It was raining kind of hard, but not to the point where I should have hydroplaned out of control.
I can tell you this.. the Z is solidly built! I hit a retaining wall at what must've been at least 45 mph. I'm going to need the front bumper with its supports/brackets and a hood, that's it! The car did three 360s before coming to a rest and I feel lucky to be alive. But, damn! I'm suprised there isnt more extensive damage.
I was looking at putting on a body kit, but this made the decision for me.
Has anyone experienced handling issues due to this problem?
A few days ago on my way to work, I unexplainedly loss control of my Z and crashed. My fronts are feathered pretty bad and the backs are starting to show the wear bars. It was raining kind of hard, but not to the point where I should have hydroplaned out of control.
I can tell you this.. the Z is solidly built! I hit a retaining wall at what must've been at least 45 mph. I'm going to need the front bumper with its supports/brackets and a hood, that's it! The car did three 360s before coming to a rest and I feel lucky to be alive. But, damn! I'm suprised there isnt more extensive damage.
I was looking at putting on a body kit, but this made the decision for me.
10-30-2003, 07:14 AM
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PGH350z
This is a perfect time for you to file a report with the NHTSA, claiming that the problem with the front suspension caused early and unusual tire wear that caused you to lose control of your Z and crash. If you do this you will be doing all of the Z owners a big favor. NTSB listens when people crash and they look closer at problems and complaints to the manufacture.
This is a perfect time for you to file a report with the NHTSA, claiming that the problem with the front suspension caused early and unusual tire wear that caused you to lose control of your Z and crash. If you do this you will be doing all of the Z owners a big favor. NTSB listens when people crash and they look closer at problems and complaints to the manufacture.
Last edited by Pit Bull; 10-30-2003 at 11:22 AM.
10-30-2003, 08:42 AM
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File a complaint with the NHTSA if you've crashed because of this! They'll ask you all of the necessary info about the crash and they will take action when people's lives are in danger!
10-30-2003, 09:18 AM
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Performance does not need to eat tires!
Originally posted by cal_z
That is allllllllllllllllll of it in a nut shell!!!!!!!!!! with a side order of fries! The intent of the car is to perform. We as the public are not performing in this car on a daily basis due to laws of the roads. The settings are simply too aggressive! But when the car is tested agains the porsche or the mustang, it is doing its job. Dominating the coarse was the intent of the engineers. They did it. But for those of us who casually drive the car, we are not really understanding what we have purchased.
Yes, nissan should make a performance car flawless for those of us who want to drive casually and occationally show a fellow driver why it was rated above there car. To have both is the thing they haven't mastered. For what the car will do, it is perfect and without loss of perfomance. But just like putting a set of cross-drilled, slotted rotors on your car, it makes the brakes perform better and more aggressive, but no one has ever though that replacing brake pads become more often done and gets more expensive. They just haven't come up with a way to have your cake and eat it too!
calvin
ss,touring,3m bra,LEDs,DVDplayer,7"widescreen,cargo net(vertical and horizontal)k&n shhhhhh, pullies shhhhh!
That is allllllllllllllllll of it in a nut shell!!!!!!!!!! with a side order of fries! The intent of the car is to perform. We as the public are not performing in this car on a daily basis due to laws of the roads. The settings are simply too aggressive! But when the car is tested agains the porsche or the mustang, it is doing its job. Dominating the coarse was the intent of the engineers. They did it. But for those of us who casually drive the car, we are not really understanding what we have purchased.
Yes, nissan should make a performance car flawless for those of us who want to drive casually and occationally show a fellow driver why it was rated above there car. To have both is the thing they haven't mastered. For what the car will do, it is perfect and without loss of perfomance. But just like putting a set of cross-drilled, slotted rotors on your car, it makes the brakes perform better and more aggressive, but no one has ever though that replacing brake pads become more often done and gets more expensive. They just haven't come up with a way to have your cake and eat it too!
calvin
ss,touring,3m bra,LEDs,DVDplayer,7"widescreen,cargo net(vertical and horizontal)k&n shhhhhh, pullies shhhhh!
I hope you do not think my post was in any way to justify the poor setup of our cars. The S2000 is a better handling sports car than our Z's and it does not have a cupping problem. In all the reviews I have read, the S2000 has beat the Z in head-to-head competitions on road courses. So, why can the S2000 handle better and not have cupping issues?
I do not agree with the position that because we purchased a sports car we must accept high costs of replacing tires every 15k -20k. Cupping is NOT acceptable!!!
If the car was set up properly we should expect the tires to wear EVENLY across ALL the tread blocks.
This link below explains how Caster affects tire wear.
http://www.discounttire.com/dtc/broc...kAlignment.jsp
10-30-2003, 09:22 AM
#1174
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Make a report to NTSB
Originally posted by Pit Bull
PGH350z
This is a perfect time for you to file a report with the NTSB, claiming that the problem with the front suspension caused early and unusual tire wear that caused you to lose control of your Z and crash. If you do this you will be doing all of the Z owners a big favor. NTSB listens when people crash and they look closer at problems and complaints to the manufacture.
PGH350z
This is a perfect time for you to file a report with the NTSB, claiming that the problem with the front suspension caused early and unusual tire wear that caused you to lose control of your Z and crash. If you do this you will be doing all of the Z owners a big favor. NTSB listens when people crash and they look closer at problems and complaints to the manufacture.
10-30-2003, 10:22 AM
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Re: Handling Issues due to feathering?!?
Originally posted by PGH350z
Has anyone experienced handling issues due to this problem?
A few days ago on my way to work, I unexplainedly loss control of my Z and crashed. My fronts are feathered pretty bad and the backs are starting to show the wear bars. It was raining kind of hard, but not to the point where I should have hydroplaned out of control.
I can tell you this.. the Z is solidly built! I hit a retaining wall at what must've been at least 45 mph. I'm going to need the front bumper with its supports/brackets and a hood, that's it! The car did three 360s before coming to a rest and I feel lucky to be alive. But, damn! I'm suprised there isnt more extensive damage.
I was looking at putting on a body kit, but this made the decision for me.
Has anyone experienced handling issues due to this problem?
A few days ago on my way to work, I unexplainedly loss control of my Z and crashed. My fronts are feathered pretty bad and the backs are starting to show the wear bars. It was raining kind of hard, but not to the point where I should have hydroplaned out of control.
I can tell you this.. the Z is solidly built! I hit a retaining wall at what must've been at least 45 mph. I'm going to need the front bumper with its supports/brackets and a hood, that's it! The car did three 360s before coming to a rest and I feel lucky to be alive. But, damn! I'm suprised there isnt more extensive damage.
I was looking at putting on a body kit, but this made the decision for me.
Last edited by Boomer; 10-30-2003 at 10:33 AM.
10-30-2003, 10:29 AM
#1176
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nhtsa (post for everyone)
I just filed my complaint with nhtsa! strength in numbers, if you've been complaining and haven't filed, what the hell are you waiting for?
strength in numbers, if you've been complaining and haven't filed, what the hell are you waiting for?
Last edited by ZMEGO; 10-30-2003 at 11:56 AM.
10-30-2003, 10:35 AM
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This is my dilema:
The car only took body damage, It seemed to drive fine. I was able to drive to the next exit, turn around, go home, get my van, and drive to work in that. The car has been in my garage since.
The police and my insurance company are unaware that I crashed. I would like to keep it that way. I live in Pennsylvania, and my insurance rate for this vehicle is already in the stratosphere ($2400+/year), and I can pay for the damages out of pocket. Can I file an accident report without having the police or insurance paperwork to back it up? Would it then get back to my insurance company? Knowing the way that insurance works in my state, I would not be surprised to get 'dropped' if I did file a claim or word of this got back to them (I also had a speeding ticket in the Z in July).
Is my opinion alone that the accident occured due to feathering worth anything? I'm not sure of it my self, that's why I asked if anyone else experience anything like this.
(fyi - had previously filed a general complaint to the NHTSA on the feathering issue.)
The car only took body damage, It seemed to drive fine. I was able to drive to the next exit, turn around, go home, get my van, and drive to work in that. The car has been in my garage since.
The police and my insurance company are unaware that I crashed. I would like to keep it that way. I live in Pennsylvania, and my insurance rate for this vehicle is already in the stratosphere ($2400+/year), and I can pay for the damages out of pocket. Can I file an accident report without having the police or insurance paperwork to back it up? Would it then get back to my insurance company? Knowing the way that insurance works in my state, I would not be surprised to get 'dropped' if I did file a claim or word of this got back to them (I also had a speeding ticket in the Z in July).
Is my opinion alone that the accident occured due to feathering worth anything? I'm not sure of it my self, that's why I asked if anyone else experience anything like this.
(fyi - had previously filed a general complaint to the NHTSA on the feathering issue.)
10-30-2003, 11:58 AM
#1178
Originally posted by PGH350z
This is my dilema:
The car only took body damage, It seemed to drive fine. I was able to drive to the next exit, turn around, go home, get my van, and drive to work in that. The car has been in my garage since.
The police and my insurance company are unaware that I crashed. I would like to keep it that way. I live in Pennsylvania, and my insurance rate for this vehicle is already in the stratosphere ($2400+/year), and I can pay for the damages out of pocket. Can I file an accident report without having the police or insurance paperwork to back it up? Would it then get back to my insurance company? Knowing the way that insurance works in my state, I would not be surprised to get 'dropped' if I did file a claim or word of this got back to them (I also had a speeding ticket in the Z in July).
Is my opinion alone that the accident occured due to feathering worth anything? I'm not sure of it my self, that's why I asked if anyone else experience anything like this.
(fyi - had previously filed a general complaint to the NHTSA on the feathering issue.)
This is my dilema:
The car only took body damage, It seemed to drive fine. I was able to drive to the next exit, turn around, go home, get my van, and drive to work in that. The car has been in my garage since.
The police and my insurance company are unaware that I crashed. I would like to keep it that way. I live in Pennsylvania, and my insurance rate for this vehicle is already in the stratosphere ($2400+/year), and I can pay for the damages out of pocket. Can I file an accident report without having the police or insurance paperwork to back it up? Would it then get back to my insurance company? Knowing the way that insurance works in my state, I would not be surprised to get 'dropped' if I did file a claim or word of this got back to them (I also had a speeding ticket in the Z in July).
Is my opinion alone that the accident occured due to feathering worth anything? I'm not sure of it my self, that's why I asked if anyone else experience anything like this.
(fyi - had previously filed a general complaint to the NHTSA on the feathering issue.)
As far as your insurance goes, the laws vary from state to state. In Kentucky, you don't get penalized for an incident if you or anyone else doesn't claim it. Plus, in ky you can file a police report after an accident anyway. Even without the dept having the report. They give you a copy of the form and you fill it out yourself. Weird!!!!!!! But it's diff. in each state!
10-30-2003, 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by cal_z
First, the factory bridgstones are dry season tires. I found this out this past winter when I got stuck in a driveway. The research that i did after that let me know, drive my truck in inclimate weather. These tires are not all-season.
As far as your insurance goes, the laws vary from state to state. In Kentucky, you don't get penalized for an incident if you or anyone else doesn't claim it. Plus, in ky you can file a police report after an accident anyway. Even without the dept having the report. They give you a copy of the form and you fill it out yourself. Weird!!!!!!! But it's diff. in each state!
First, the factory bridgstones are dry season tires. I found this out this past winter when I got stuck in a driveway. The research that i did after that let me know, drive my truck in inclimate weather. These tires are not all-season.
As far as your insurance goes, the laws vary from state to state. In Kentucky, you don't get penalized for an incident if you or anyone else doesn't claim it. Plus, in ky you can file a police report after an accident anyway. Even without the dept having the report. They give you a copy of the form and you fill it out yourself. Weird!!!!!!! But it's diff. in each state!
10-30-2003, 12:57 PM
#1180
Originally posted by Pit Bull
When was your Z built? Have you had it aligned? What tire pressure do you run? What tires are you running on your Z?? you said you were going to Goodyear?
Thanks
When was your Z built? Have you had it aligned? What tire pressure do you run? What tires are you running on your Z?? you said you were going to Goodyear?
Thanks
