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Tire FEATHERING: FYI

Old 03-26-2003, 11:44 AM
  #161  
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Originally posted by RobJames
I just talked to the service advisor. NNA has approved my new tires, but told him they needed to be put on before 12,000 miles.
The 12k miles or 1year is the end of the warranty period for "adjustments" such as alignments. After that period the dealer may charge for alignment unless there is a recall or NNA picks up the tap.

I also see the front to back wear pattern on a each tread block with max wear on a repeating cycle of three tread blocks. Not sure what causes this, but another possibility is the pulsing of the ABS/BA/EBD? This pulsing may account for front to back wear pattern on each tread block in combination with the camber/toe problems.
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Old 03-26-2003, 11:49 AM
  #162  
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You have my info via e-mail.

Perhaps a new thread is indeed needed for this info to be emailed to you. Get permission from the mods that no bs, questions, etc, be allowed. This is a blitz campaign to get our info to Nissan engineers.
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Old 03-26-2003, 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by kawataworks
QUOTE: Lastly, my NNA contact (Steven) has been really nice and helpful. You have to understand they aren't engineers. In fact, he wishes he could afford a new Z... He has been great and will swap my tires but also listened and understands my concern. I don't want to ruin another set of tires, regardless of who pays for them. I'm more interested in figuring this out and fixing it. Then I'll get a set of tires I really want (they won't be Bridgestone). So thanks to Steve (if you are reading) and keep up the good work. END QUOTE

Steven's last name is Lam.

I just spoke to Michelle at NNA and filed yet another case about the tire feathering issue, because she told me that she did NOT see one in my file that I had made a complaint.

There are three of us so far that have banded together to make a formal complaint to Nissan. I am going to draft petition to explain our position and those of you who are interested in having your name on this letter please write me an email with your VIN#.

Power in numbers.
Ian

[email protected]
E-mailed it to you. Thanks, Ian. BTW, I called Stephen Lam this noon, his Sec, AA or Rep said she gave him a printout of my complaint and he would call me back today. I told her I had an app't at 2pm Central, but I wanted a callback, even if it was just a message on my voice mail. She assured me I would get a message at least; when I returned later, no such message was received. This is my 4th call w/o a return call. I do not consider his lack of response to be Customer Service at all. Perhaps someone else should be performing the task he is supposed to be doing. If I were treated in this manner by any type of business, they would never receive my business again.
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Old 03-26-2003, 03:55 PM
  #164  
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FWITW,

I went by my dealer to reopen the feathering issue and got a meeting with the Service Manager. He is new to the dealership and I had not taken my compalint to that level before today.

Long story short...

He was at Mitsubishi when the 3000 GT came out. It had the same exact problem. Told him some of the theories on the board etc and the rage that is growing. Asked if the car was at the dealer. Yes. Walked out and he looked. This is his on the spot analysis after 20 seconds...

Too much negative camber and toe out even after toe was aligned in February. Car could be in complete spec per Nissan but it is an engineering problem causing the tread to be chomped as we drive. Will never be right after it starts even with the alignment. I need a new set of tires in the front. Backs look good and even. He is calling the DSM to begin the process of notifying NNA. I told him that we all have called. His answer was that it will not be rectified until the dealer and DSM come up with a solution at the local level. WTF? He said it took Mitsu 2 years to rectify the problem and they ate alot of tires. He wants to monitor my new tires and is petitioning to have an engineer review my set up and specs.

I do not know but I hope he is sincere and not a paper lion. I will follow up in a few days but this guy knew his stuff and having been in the line of fire at Mitsu knows this can get ugly.

Ps Aggie 300 ZX I emailed you about him

EZCHIEF (alter Ego)
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Old 03-26-2003, 04:38 PM
  #165  
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Great idea on the petition. Great idea if we all call the same guy and let him know it. Even better to share what he is telling each of us individually. But as has been pointed out, he isn't the skill or grade level to fix this, higher paid Nissan corporate engineers and managers are. So I'm continuing on that course with Steve.

Talked to Steve (Lamb or Lam I think) this morning, he called me around 10:00 CT, and for me, he has been real good at returning calls and tracking me down on multiple phone numbers. Unfortunately he confirmed that there is no other solution than the TSB. I also told him about the part number changes identified here and the shock/strut theory and recommended he talk to the engineers and perhaps try a test case. He didn't offer up that he was aware of the part changes or the shock theory. Right now he wants me to go back to the dealer to re-check the alignment and call him tomorrow with the part number information from this thread. No promises were made, but he was interested. So not sure if he already had that info and we are getting a run-around, but I have great patience.

I also think Nissan should fix this problem before it goes further, they have much to lose, the word of a serious Z problem eating tires is spreading. Today, a guy I never met came up to me and said: "Hey, aren't you the guy with the white Z? I heard they have a bad tire problem?"

BTW, what happened to ZISME? Is he still around and reading this forum? Although there have been 800 new threads and 1000's of posts since my last logon...yesterday LOL, but this issue is at the top of the Problems Section. I'm surprised he or another Nissan rep hasn't chimed in here. Better get with it guys, your losing it.


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Old 03-26-2003, 04:45 PM
  #166  
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Originally posted by Loaner
FWITW,

I went by my dealer to reopen the feathering issue and got a meeting with the Service Manager. He is new to the dealership and I had not taken my compalint to that level before today.

Long story short...

He was at Mitsubishi when the 3000 GT came out. It had the same exact problem. Told him some of the theories on the board etc and the rage that is growing. Asked if the car was at the dealer. Yes. Walked out and he looked. This is his on the spot analysis after 20 seconds...

Too much negative camber and toe out even after toe was aligned in February. Car could be in complete spec per Nissan but it is an engineering problem causing the tread to be chomped as we drive. Will never be right after it starts even with the alignment. I need a new set of tires in the front. Backs look good and even. He is calling the DSM to begin the process of notifying NNA. I told him that we all have called. His answer was that it will not be rectified until the dealer and DSM come up with a solution at the local level. WTF? He said it took Mitsu 2 years to rectify the problem and they ate alot of tires. He wants to monitor my new tires and is petitioning to have an engineer review my set up and specs.

I do not know but I hope he is sincere and not a paper lion. I will follow up in a few days but this guy knew his stuff and having been in the line of fire at Mitsu knows this can get ugly.

Ps Aggie 300 ZX I emailed you about him

EZCHIEF (alter Ego)
Interesting. I hope you're right about him. I changed my tires at 1600 miles because the ride was so crappy on the 040s, found the 040s were begininng to feather. I put a set of Michelin A/Ss on in stock size, then went straight to the dealer the next day for alignment. I took my car in today for an oil and filter change at 2700 miles. Checked the front tires, not a tread block with the wear marks the 040s had. I am being very watchful about the wear w/ the new tires. Changing to a different tire may help stave off the abnormal wear or Nissan will be receiving some fire coming their way. I will get a fix or Nissan will be missing a long-time customer.
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Old 03-26-2003, 04:54 PM
  #167  
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Originally posted by Boomer
Interesting. I hope you're right about him. I changed my tires at 1600 miles because the ride was so crappy on the 040s, found the 040s were begininng to feather. I put a set of Michelin A/Ss on in stock size, then went straight to the dealer the next day for alignment. I took my car in today for an oil and filter change at 2700 miles. Checked the front tires, not a tread block with the wear marks the 040s had. I am being very watchful about the wear w/ the new tires. Changing to a different tire may help stave off the abnormal wear or Nissan will be receiving some fire coming their way. I will get a fix or Nissan will be missing a long-time customer.
good point, what is the treadwear rating of your new tires?? the stock ones are a HORRible 140 and a traction rating of A, my new Toyos are treadwear is 240 and traction of AA (in other words the tires wearout fast and SUCK for traction, a combination that usually doesn't go together)
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Old 03-26-2003, 04:54 PM
  #168  
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Originally posted by Boomer
Interesting. I hope you're right about him. I changed my tires at 1600 miles because the ride was so crappy on the 040s, found the 040s were begininng to feather. I put a set of Michelin A/Ss on in stock size, then went straight to the dealer the next day for alignment. I took my car in today for an oil and filter change at 2700 miles. Checked the front tires, not a tread block with the wear marks the 040s had. I am being very watchful about the wear w/ the new tires. Changing to a different tire may help stave off the abnormal wear or Nissan will be receiving some fire coming their way. I will get a fix or Nissan will be missing a long-time customer.
Great news Loaner, I hope so too.

Boomer, those are the same tires I'm thinking about getting.


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Old 03-26-2003, 05:46 PM
  #169  
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Enforcer I spoke with STeven about the same time on the different part numbers, he wasn't aware of it or knew little about it. I really don't think STeven has any type of authority, I've dealt with him the last 2 weeks about these issue's and he has yet to find any type of solution. I Believe he's just a puppet, a speed bump, we need to get someone involved who is over Steven. He explains he has to get back to his manager, who the hell is his manager? Ian how big is the list?
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Old 03-26-2003, 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by Vincey2kr1
Enforcer I spoke with STeven about the same time on the different part numbers, he wasn't aware of it or knew little about it. I really don't think STeven has any type of authority, I've dealt with him the last 2 weeks about these issue's and he has yet to find any type of solution. I Believe he's just a puppet, a speed bump, we need to get someone involved who is over Steven. He explains he has to get back to his manager, who the hell is his manager? Ian how big is the list?
has anyone DEMANDED to speak with a supervisor?? Someone needs to grow some ***** and DEMAND it (I would BUT my problem isn't as severe (yet) as others here). say that you will NOT get off the phone until you can talk with the supervisor and if they say "he is on the other line" let them know that you will "HOLD" until they are OFF. This is rediculus, people get better service buying a $1 hamburger!!
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Old 03-26-2003, 06:19 PM
  #171  
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Originally posted by rodH
good point, what is the treadwear rating of your new tires?? the stock ones are a HORRible 140 and a traction rating of A, my new Toyos are treadwear is 240 and traction of AA (in other words the tires wearout fast and SUCK for traction, a combination that usually doesn't go together)
400 UTOG, but they are 17"s. No 18"s in the all season sizes.
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Old 03-26-2003, 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by Enforcer
Great news Loaner, I hope so too.

Boomer, those are the same tires I'm thinking about getting.


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Check out my answer to Loaner, you may not find a fit in the A/Ss.
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Old 03-26-2003, 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by Vincey2kr1
Enforcer I spoke with STeven about the same time on the different part numbers, he wasn't aware of it or knew little about it. I really don't think STeven has any type of authority, I've dealt with him the last 2 weeks about these issue's and he has yet to find any type of solution. I Believe he's just a puppet, a speed bump, we need to get someone involved who is over Steven. He explains he has to get back to his manager, who the hell is his manager? Ian how big is the list?
I sent an e-mail to Ian after I gave him my VIN and case file. I asked him who does he plan to send this to? If we just send a long list to Steve L., I think we are wasting our time. This has to go to a high powered authority or we're pissing in the wind.

What about asking Fairlady if he knows a high level Manager in Japan?????????????????? Somebody know him pretty well, enough to call him and ask?

Dicking with NNA hasn't gotten us even close to anyone with the power and authority we need. I'm sick of talking to a couple of clerks passing themselves off as Customer Service. NNA doesn't have any customer service as far as I am concerned and the suspension engineers they had me call in Detroit wouldn't call me back.

It seems to me every Nissan employee in the US is paralyzed and can't or won't do anything. Does Steve L. know some owners are reporting the tire problems to the NSHTA AS SAFETY HAZARDS? Owners from this thread! I have been an apologist for NNA as long as I am going to be; they have been no help at all and their engineers need to make a decision and implement it now, not next year. Is anybody listening?

Boomer--mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore.
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Old 03-26-2003, 07:02 PM
  #174  
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Originally posted by Vincey2kr1
Enforcer I spoke with STeven about the same time on the different part numbers, he wasn't aware of it or knew little about it. I really don't think STeven has any type of authority, I've dealt with him the last 2 weeks about these issue's and he has yet to find any type of solution. I Believe he's just a puppet, a speed bump, we need to get someone involved who is over Steven. He explains he has to get back to his manager, who the hell is his manager? Ian how big is the list?
Oh there I go again, assuming everybody has the same experiences I do, sorry, let me explain. Your right. I would choose the words limited conduit versus speed bump, but puppet is by design. If you want this fixed now and are out of patience, he is a speed bump.

However....I believe he, like every other support rep at every other company I have dealt with, are usually the lowest paid, lowest experienced, and are treated like lemmings/mushrooms. I've had experience on this with other products and have had friends who were support reps. They are told what to say and what to do by not only their managers but by company policy and training. They are limited in what they have and can do (he can't even exchange email with me) and are kept in the dark and fed BS. Couple that with the fact they have to assume they are being taped and recorded and will be critiqued on what they say and how they handle your conversation...not necessarily your problem. And the last thing they want is to be recorded only to be in the next company training program of what not to do IE how not to cause the company to spend $$.

With that said, the companies do this on purpose and lets face it, who would want the job of talking to a bunch of irrate people everyday? Most people that take a support rep job try to move up or out quickly. But back to the point. It's important to know that this isn't a fight with a person or persons, it is a fight with a company and all that entails - policy / beauracracy / training / management and eventually...the bottom line ($$). But he can go talk to people and serve as the conduit. He is our entry point. It doesn't do any good to get upset with him. If he is anything like my friend, he probably wants to fix it as much as we do so we'll quit calling and he can feel good that he actually helped some one, was part of the solution and made a difference.

So I would only ask to talk to his manager if either I felt he was not doing his job (understanding his limitations) or he suggested it. Because more likely than not, his manager is not an engineer and can no more effect a fix than he can. But if his manager is a barrier, you'll know if he says things like 'my manager won't ___blank'. Fill in the blank with whatever. When that happens, immediately ask to talk to his manager. If you think the rep is not doing his job, then state it and ask to be given to someone that can. If you think the manager is the problem, be sure to say upfront that the rep is not the problem, that the company is and ask who you need to call to fix it.

In my case, I think Steve is doing great knowing the limitations he is under and so far I have no indication that his manager is an impedement. That's why I continue to suggest to him topics to talk to the engineers about and the more ammo we can give him, the more they will listen. Because the engineers typically discount these guys, after all, they are the engineers and these guys obviously know nothing!

Unfortunately, this is a lengthy process. It is not conducive to quickly resolving problems and doesn't always work. I have found that the key is patience and dilligence. When you feel disgusted and angry, suppress it, stop and concentrate on coming up with another point to attack from, like petitions.

Thats why at the same time, a petition is such a great idea. It should go straight to corporate management and they will choose to ignore their support reps and us the customers at their own demise.

I am continually amazed at these processes companies put in place and then beat their drums and proudly state how well trained they are and what a good support program they have and how committed they are to customer satisfaction blah blah blah, blah blah, blah blah blah. Pure BS, that's why I laugh everytime I hear it. So yes, I'm extremely critical. Perhaps unfairly, I don't know, they are in business to make money and I am a believer in long term gains are more important than short term profits (Like Boomer saying this will be his last Nissan, maybe mine too). But if they don't survive in the short term, there may not be a long term. So it, as everything else, is a tradeoff and a balance must be struck. There are no magic binoculars, adapter, genie or pixie dust. They will fix it, or sales will decline. We just have to be alert to recognize the fix if it happens quietely, and be patient and diligent and just maybe...be part of the solution.

So keep it up, this is a great group. Lots of knowledge in here. If nothing else, I'll continue to learn a lot and that's worth it to me. It'll pay dividends eventually.


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Old 03-26-2003, 07:05 PM
  #175  
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Originally posted by rodH
has anyone DEMANDED to speak with a supervisor?? Someone needs to grow some ***** and DEMAND it (I would BUT my problem isn't as severe (yet) as others here). say that you will NOT get off the phone until you can talk with the supervisor and if they say "he is on the other line" let them know that you will "HOLD" until they are OFF. This is rediculus, people get better service buying a $1 hamburger!!
LOL! See my previous, he isn't the problem. Actually, when they tell me to "park it" I tell them no. It really amazes me the dumb looks I get, especially when I tell them this is supposed to be FAST food, I came here because it is fast, not good.


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Old 03-26-2003, 07:08 PM
  #176  
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Originally posted by Boomer
400 UTOG, but they are 17"s. No 18"s in the all season sizes.
Awwww....crap!


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Old 03-26-2003, 07:23 PM
  #177  
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Boomer -

I am working on who I can get this into at Nissan in Torrance, CA.
I have some friends at Nissan that maybe able to snoop around and find out who I can send this issue to.

Ian
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Old 03-26-2003, 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by kawataworks
Boomer -

I am working on who I can get this into at Nissan in Torrance, CA.
I have some friends at Nissan that maybe able to snoop around and find out who I can send this issue to.

Ian
Excellent, Ian. That is what I was hoping for to end the paralysis at NNA. I am convinced we have to get past the clerks at NNA and get some competent engineers working on this ASAP. I won't spend 2 years waiting and hoping something positive will happen. Talking to gatekeepers is too slow for me, and PR types only know marketing, not technical assistance.
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Old 03-26-2003, 09:54 PM
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Default Feathering petition

Ian, I'm in and you have mail. Regards, Jim


Originally posted by cobf32
E-Mail sent

Everyone.... please take the time to do this. They can't ignor all of us!!!

Silverstone Performance
Phoenix Az
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Old 03-27-2003, 02:32 AM
  #180  
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How bout a petition for the bounce problem too? I am still waiting on my dealers owner who has ties with NNA for answers on the bounce problem. I will make him aware of the feathering issue too.

Last edited by jmark; 03-27-2003 at 02:52 AM.
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