****Any Christains on here??!***
08-09-2007, 04:42 AM
#181
Originally Posted by Shabba2
Yes I get bent out of shape when someone says "Thank god ricky bobby wasn't killed in that horrible car wreck that took 3 other lives." Um hello, if there were a god, that god should have intervened to prevent the wreck in the first place. And if that god didn't, then he/she/it is guilty of apathy or callousness. Thus, no god.
I agree that people shouldn’t say thank God if person A lived, when person B died. However if its your family member or close friend its OK to celebrate that they are still here, yet respecting the family/friends of those who have gone.
We can debate until the cows come home. You believe your way, we believe ours. But Thankfully we are in a Nation that we can choose to do what we want. Don’t have that option in China. You couldn’t have TV or Internet in Baghdad while Sadizzam was there.
Sadaam control people like a Puppeteer. Most traditional Iraqis think that all Americans are John Wayne and Dolly Parton.
They also think (hopefully thought) that all American have sex all the time and carry guns. 
Why? Because their environment provided those thoughts and ideas. If I were born in the Middle East..Most likely my faith would be Islamic based.My life, my experience, my environment provide me will enough information to believe in Jesus and that’s the bottom line. I am out gunned here at work with Certifications, Degrees, and experience, yet I am one of the highest paid. I have to give credit somewhere, because my efforts on this earth normally don’t yield such results. I believe I had help.
Your life didn’t yield such an opinion or results to believe in Jesus....and thats cool. I cannot answer your question if you died today...where would you go? That is not up to me to decide, but my experiences lead me to believe that no matter your words here or else where, if you heart truely believed...it would not matter, you would be taken care of.
Either way... those who believe in some God or Gods far out way those who don’t. I understand popularity and corruption has a play in some of this...however the billions of people in history can’t all be wrong?
Last edited by 4SHIZZIL; 08-09-2007 at 04:59 AM.
08-09-2007, 04:53 AM
#182
Originally Posted by I1DER
I don't think it is fair. The mid-Atlantic forum lets Tubbs discuss there and he isn't even a Christian, but I am an excluded Christian because I live outside the region.
I'm obviously excluded or you would have posted this in a non-regional forum. Thanks. The Christians on the West coast apparently aren't bigots as some in the Mid-Atlantic are. I also didn't hear any complaints from other Mid-Atlantic Christians criticizing the exclusivity of their area forum for Christian discussions.
If I remember correctly, Christ was a Jew from the Mid-East not the Mid-Atlantic.
I'm obviously excluded or you would have posted this in a non-regional forum. Thanks. The Christians on the West coast apparently aren't bigots as some in the Mid-Atlantic are. I also didn't hear any complaints from other Mid-Atlantic Christians criticizing the exclusivity of their area forum for Christian discussions.
If I remember correctly, Christ was a Jew from the Mid-East not the Mid-Atlantic.
There is more to this forum than Mid-Atlantic....You didnt read or see the forum which inspired this post. We are not excluding anyone...and your comments are not helping Christians anywhere homie. They dont inspire or benefit, so why post them?
This forum started from a locol guy looking for people with more in common than his 4 wheeled Z. There are better ways of finding out information, than just jumping into the thread blasting off like a NASA rocket. Calm down dude..read the entire thread, then post your two cents.
08-09-2007, 05:01 AM
#183
Originally Posted by Motormouth
ok, I'm pissed now.
I was BANNED for 'trashing' this thread. it's obvious that this thread is not at all on topic anymore and I haven't been posting so why was it only me? I get f*** singled out and banned for what. what a ***ign joke this place is.
I was BANNED for 'trashing' this thread. it's obvious that this thread is not at all on topic anymore and I haven't been posting so why was it only me? I get f*** singled out and banned for what. what a ***ign joke this place is.
Im sure your skills of inserting profanity had nothing to do with it! [bold] f [color blue] u, bla bla bla.
My350z, life, and American always gives the option for you to delete, remove, or change your account.
Last edited by 4SHIZZIL; 08-09-2007 at 05:04 AM.
08-09-2007, 06:46 AM
#184
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Originally Posted by 4SHIZZIL G-SPOT
Why do we fall apart?...because we introduced non-natural things into our bodies. People lived to be a lot older in the old days than today...I’m talk back in B.C.
Do you think you can eat silicone, yellow die #1,2,and 3 and not have some reaction? Or swallow chemicals that deter bugs off fruits and not have a reaction? Or breath the air from a 600HP 350Z running race gas? How about changing your oil and having the oil soak into your body and not have a reaction? I worked on F-15's and F-111's that had hydraulic fulid, many oils, jet fuel, and asbestos clamps and fittings..... Im sure I will get some reaction either sooner or later.
Research "The Makers Diet" and see how people with many of the symptoms you describe have been eliminated because they went to eating from all things that are not man made or scavengers like shrimp and crab....I love shrimp...lol.
Funny how this thread has taken a turn. Again, for all the people who find such offense, you sure are interested in having us explain things for you. Or are you so lost yourself that you need to justify your ways. I admit to being lost and needing a "Master" to guide me through this life of so many options, choices and religions.
I will say this also..I had a car accident at age 16...broke my back in 4 places, broke 4 ribs so bad they depleted on lung and put a nice size hole in the other (steering wheel no air bag). and split my head open along with snapping my shoulder blade into two pieces.
My mom had 8 very scientifically educated doctors tell her....
Team of Dr's: "your son wont make it through the night. His injuries our beyond helping at this point.
Mom:..."that’s a shame"
Team of Dr's: "huh"
Mom: "Out of all the loans, and books, and research you did… you forgot to read the most important book"
Team of Dr.'s: "I’m sorry we don’t understand"
Mom: "The Bible"
Team of Dr's: Look at my Mom like she is on crack as they exit the ER.
Well I am here today and probably can out run and drive (lol) most on the boards. I have no signs of my injury other than an eagle bite (scar) on my dome.
I don’t care what you believe, but someone said, that they only way you escaped that 4dr Camry that looks like a piece of bread folded in two, is that someone was protection you. Every part of that car was demolished except for my seating area.
Now you might say..but engineers made the car that way....I agree..but why did those people decide to be engineers and not bank robbers. I believe everything happens for a reason....not just cause.
I am not pushing my beliefs on anyone. But I will say this...everything that has evolved (EVOLUTION) has evolved. If we came from monkeys..there would be no monkeys...what a select few decided not to evolve.
Since all the non-Christians are so knowledgeable about who and what Jesus was. Can anyone of you explain his prediction prior to his birth, life and death?
Non-Christians have tried to explain the scrolls (Old Testament) that out date Jesus that predict his birth, life, and the name of the man who killed him. Non-Christians say that this probability of prediction would be the number 1 with over a thousand zeros behind it.
"The more they dig out of the ground, the more they prove the Bible to be inerrant” Lon Solomon (Jewish pastor for the Bible based Church of McLean Bible) VA.
Do you think you can eat silicone, yellow die #1,2,and 3 and not have some reaction? Or swallow chemicals that deter bugs off fruits and not have a reaction? Or breath the air from a 600HP 350Z running race gas? How about changing your oil and having the oil soak into your body and not have a reaction? I worked on F-15's and F-111's that had hydraulic fulid, many oils, jet fuel, and asbestos clamps and fittings..... Im sure I will get some reaction either sooner or later.
Research "The Makers Diet" and see how people with many of the symptoms you describe have been eliminated because they went to eating from all things that are not man made or scavengers like shrimp and crab....I love shrimp...lol.
Funny how this thread has taken a turn. Again, for all the people who find such offense, you sure are interested in having us explain things for you. Or are you so lost yourself that you need to justify your ways. I admit to being lost and needing a "Master" to guide me through this life of so many options, choices and religions.
I will say this also..I had a car accident at age 16...broke my back in 4 places, broke 4 ribs so bad they depleted on lung and put a nice size hole in the other (steering wheel no air bag). and split my head open along with snapping my shoulder blade into two pieces.
My mom had 8 very scientifically educated doctors tell her....
Team of Dr's: "your son wont make it through the night. His injuries our beyond helping at this point.
Mom:..."that’s a shame"
Team of Dr's: "huh"
Mom: "Out of all the loans, and books, and research you did… you forgot to read the most important book"
Team of Dr.'s: "I’m sorry we don’t understand"
Mom: "The Bible"
Team of Dr's: Look at my Mom like she is on crack as they exit the ER.
Well I am here today and probably can out run and drive (lol) most on the boards. I have no signs of my injury other than an eagle bite (scar) on my dome.
I don’t care what you believe, but someone said, that they only way you escaped that 4dr Camry that looks like a piece of bread folded in two, is that someone was protection you. Every part of that car was demolished except for my seating area.
Now you might say..but engineers made the car that way....I agree..but why did those people decide to be engineers and not bank robbers. I believe everything happens for a reason....not just cause.
I am not pushing my beliefs on anyone. But I will say this...everything that has evolved (EVOLUTION) has evolved. If we came from monkeys..there would be no monkeys...what a select few decided not to evolve.
Since all the non-Christians are so knowledgeable about who and what Jesus was. Can anyone of you explain his prediction prior to his birth, life and death?
Non-Christians have tried to explain the scrolls (Old Testament) that out date Jesus that predict his birth, life, and the name of the man who killed him. Non-Christians say that this probability of prediction would be the number 1 with over a thousand zeros behind it.
"The more they dig out of the ground, the more they prove the Bible to be inerrant” Lon Solomon (Jewish pastor for the Bible based Church of McLean Bible) VA.
Your summation of your accident is what I am talking about when I say that it frustrates me when people want to thank their god they lived through something like that(and FTR, I am quite happy you made it be here today fwiw.
). How can you say it was god that kept you alive but not god who caused the crash? Those doctors your mother was admonishing have saved countless, countless lives. If someone I knew had just been in a horrific wreck and someone told me I needed to read the bible, I'd look at them like they were out there too, G. No offense to mama and I give her props for being there for you (my mom was too when I was in a bike wreck..sniffle).How did we come from monkeys but monkeys are still around? How did puffer fish come to be and lionfish are still around? How did lions evolve but cats are still here? How did dogs come to be but wolves are still around? Why are some people taller than others? There is variation in each and every species. We are here as decendants of monkeys and monkeys are still around because we evolved and eventually broke away. I still fail to see how anyone can stand on their own two feet and justify creationism and in the same breath question evolution. You are telling me that a guy, who lives in the clouds, waved his hands and said "let it be" and the entire universe came to be? Yet evolution, a step by step process that uses ration and methodology is hard to accept? Come on!
The chance that life came to be and thrived was a number with a one in front of it and a million zeros behind it, but it happened. If you are going to accept the nonsense that jesus was "predicted" to live, then you are also forced to accept Nostrodamus and his predictions, predictions that were accurate at times and incorrect at others. Ms. Chloe was also right much of the time. There is ALWAYS a chance for something to happen.
08-09-2007, 07:11 AM
#185
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I agree %100 that man created the image of God, in that time frame there was no "science" to explain what really happened, or how we got here so a "story" was created (Bible)
There is no proof of God or Jesus, just television scams and what you were taught when you were young by someone else that was taught the same thing when they were young kinda like folklore...
There is no proof of God or Jesus, just television scams and what you were taught when you were young by someone else that was taught the same thing when they were young kinda like folklore...
Last edited by DROPPEDIT2WCE; 08-09-2007 at 07:19 AM.
08-09-2007, 07:55 AM
#186
Originally Posted by Shabba2
People lived longer? Based on what???!! Mankind had to fight to survive. I would have been an elder 2000 years ago and I'm barely in my 30's! How did we come from monkeys but monkeys are still around? How did puffer fish come to be and lionfish are still around? How did lions evolve but cats are still here? How did dogs come to be but wolves are still around? Why are some people taller than others? There is variation in each and every species. We are here as decendants of monkeys and monkeys are still around because we evolved and eventually broke away. I still fail to see how anyone can stand on their own two feet and justify creationism and in the same breath question evolution. You are telling me that a guy, who lives in the clouds, waved his hands and said "let it be" and the entire universe came to be? Yet evolution, a step by step process that uses ration and methodology is hard to accept? Come on!
My accident happend for a reason...I was a mad man behind the wheel. I still have to remind myself that 49mph can kill you. Heck 30mph can kill you will no airbag. Man is always trying to out think reality. The reality is that we are all ignorant if we think we truely know one way or the other. We can only believe one way or the other, because unless God speaks to you directly or if Science closes the bigillions of gaps in science. We are all just guessors. I believe God speaks to me. Not just verbal, non-verbal, experiences, life itself is a big lesson for me and many others.
My Aunts House burned down from the Christmas tree on New Years 3 years ago. She heard her daughter die burning to death. She is a buck 20 and beat up about 4 muscle bound fire fighters trying to get in the house, which she did. She almost burned herself to death. Why would God let this happen? I honestly dont have the concrete answer. To top if off my Aunt now sits in Jail because they think she set the fire herself. This is so aweful a situation, Im shaking just reciting this... however. At the hospitol when my aunt was being treated from burns as she was cuffed the bed (as if she could escape with 80% of her body burned). That was the first time in over 20 years that my Grandmother and her 5 daughters (who one dislikes the other for some reason or another) were in the same room. It brought tears of joy to them although this was a time of morning and healing. They have sence tried to patch up their stupid grudges and differences. I dont know all the answers man. I just try to find my way. I dont push my way on others. But the system I use which included Jesus, works for me and my family.
FYI: Someone stole my bike.
I was pushing 160mph regularly
....I cried like a baby
, but I am sure that crook saved my life in a funny way...lol.
Last edited by 4SHIZZIL; 08-09-2007 at 07:58 AM.
08-09-2007, 08:35 AM
#187
Originally Posted by Tubbs
Bravo young grasshopper. You googled "Jesus Never Existed" and cut 'n pasted the first link that popped up. But honestly ... jesusneverexisted.com is your final answer? You couldn't even find a link that was remotely subjective?For the record: I never said the Jesus was the "son of god", but there is a plethora of evidence that he did exist.
Most of the Historians and Philosophers of the 1st and 2nd Century were NOT big fans of Jesus and his followers. This actually makes the case, that he existed, even stronger.
Just a few of his detracter's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celsus
Celsus, a 2nd century Greek philosopher and opponent of Christianity, thought "Jesus was born in adultery and nurtured on the wisdom of Egypt. His assertion of divine dignity is disproved by his poverty and his miserable end. Christians have no standing in the Old Testament prophecies and their talk of a resurrection that was only revealed to some of their own adherents is foolishness."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caiaphas
Yehosef Bar Kayafa, (which translates as Joseph, son of Caiaphas)
Caiaphas' term in office was recorded by the contemporary Roman historian Josephus. He was appointed in 18 by the Roman procurator who preceded Pilate, Valerius Gratus.[1]
In 1990, two miles south of present day Jerusalem, 12 ossuaries in the family tomb of a "Caiaphas" were discovered. One ossuray was inscribed with the full name, in Aramaic of "Joseph, son of Caiaphas", and a second with simply the family name of "Caiaphas".[1] After examination the bones were reburied on the Mount of Olives.
Caiaphas convinced the Jewish priests and Pharisees that Jesus should die and was also involved in the trial of Jesus after his arrest in the garden of Gethsemane.
08-09-2007, 08:41 AM
#188
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Originally Posted by dutchboy350Z
Bravo young grasshopper. You googled "Jesus Never Existed" and cut 'n pasted the first link that popped up. But honestly ... jesusneverexisted.com is your final answer? You couldn't even find a link that was remotely subjective?What, is it not true that there was more evidence of Caesar than Jesus? There's also more evidence of aliens (paintings on caves) and Zeus (countless books) than Jesus. The only "historians" presented wrote about Jesus 100 years after he died?
08-09-2007, 08:52 AM
#189
Originally Posted by Tubbs
What, is it not true that there was more evidence of Caesar than Jesus? There's also more evidence of aliens (paintings on caves) and Zeus (countless books) than Jesus. The only "historians" presented wrote about Jesus 100 years after he died?
The idea of Jesus being the son of God is not believed by everybody, so to many, he is just another person.
Obviously more evidence is going to exist about someone who everbody believes in, versus someone who only some believe in.
100 years from now there will be more writing and evidence about Bill Gate's existence than that of mine. I must not have existed right?
08-09-2007, 08:55 AM
#190
Originally Posted by Tubbs
Well I know 100 percent everything I did in my life "I" did without divine intervention. I worked my ass off and still do. The day will come when someone younger and better will come along. But that's life.
So as a a student in sciences, you see all the mistakes, and imperfections and believe that things had to be "designed" that way? Why do we have a tailbone? Why internals that give out? Why so many deformations? Why is our spine so fragile? Why is life more painful the older we get? Why do we get diseases? Cancer? Why do our eyes give out with use? or for that matter, our joints?
So as a a student in sciences, you see all the mistakes, and imperfections and believe that things had to be "designed" that way? Why do we have a tailbone? Why internals that give out? Why so many deformations? Why is our spine so fragile? Why is life more painful the older we get? Why do we get diseases? Cancer? Why do our eyes give out with use? or for that matter, our joints?
You should be asking how a cell can respond to the environment then work together to form a tissue than the tissue organize into organs and how these organs coordinate to make the human body. How do all these things work in such wonderful harmony. BTW, its 2007 and we still do not fully understand how a single cell is able to respond to the multitude of extracellular signals
08-09-2007, 09:00 AM
#191
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Originally Posted by tquill
This is irrelavant. Caesar was the leader of Rome and everyone knew and believed it.
The idea of Jesus being the son of God is not believed by everybody, so to many, he is just another person.
Obviously more evidence is going to exist about someone who everbody believes in, versus someone who only some believe in.
100 years from now there will be more writing and evidence about Bill Gate's existence than that of mine. I must not have existed right?
The idea of Jesus being the son of God is not believed by everybody, so to many, he is just another person.
Obviously more evidence is going to exist about someone who everbody believes in, versus someone who only some believe in.
100 years from now there will be more writing and evidence about Bill Gate's existence than that of mine. I must not have existed right?
If you could perform miracles, the world was afraid of your powers, and you started a cult following... you'd be remembered.
08-09-2007, 09:00 AM
#192
Originally Posted by Tubbs
What, is it not true that there was more evidence of Caesar than Jesus? There's also more evidence of aliens (paintings on caves) and Zeus (countless books) than Jesus. The only "historians" presented wrote about Jesus 100 years after he died?
You think all those statues and busts he forced the romans to make in his honor didn't have anything to do with him being remembered and written about?
And the historians "presented" did NOT all write "100 years" after he died.
Titus Flavius Josephus was born 37 A.D.. Unless he lived to be over a 100 years old (which he didn't), he did NOT write about Jesus 100 years after he died.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus
If stating "The only "historians" presented wrote about Jesus 100 years after he died" is your best reason for Jesus having never existed then I'll quote a famous man from India that owns a convenience store:
"Thank you. Come Again."
Last edited by dutchboy350Z; 08-09-2007 at 09:03 AM.
08-09-2007, 09:01 AM
#193
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Originally Posted by Biochem7
Humans are amazing in every way...but we are not perfect.
You should be asking how a cell can respond to the environment then work together to form a tissue than the tissue organize into organs and how these organs coordinate to make the human body. How do all these things work in such wonderful harmony. BTW, its 2007 and we still do not fully understand how a single cell is able to respond to the multitude of extracellular signals
You should be asking how a cell can respond to the environment then work together to form a tissue than the tissue organize into organs and how these organs coordinate to make the human body. How do all these things work in such wonderful harmony. BTW, its 2007 and we still do not fully understand how a single cell is able to respond to the multitude of extracellular signals
So because you can't explain something right now, it must be god? And if there was a perfect designer, why aren't we perfect?
08-09-2007, 09:22 AM
#194
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Originally Posted by Tubbs
So because you can't explain something right now, it must be god? And if there was a perfect designer, why aren't we perfect?
Who made god? A being that is so advanced and complex as to create the universe had to be created by something more complex than even it. Simple, rational thought there...so who was it? Who made god?
I love how people assign a value to the unknown and name it "god", though with respect to G, Dutch (both my virginia homies!!)and BioChem, they have all sounded like they have thought about this more than the average religious person might have. Kudos to you guys for that.
God was created by man out of fear of the unknown. It's the same place we got ghosts, demons and dragons from : our imagination. It answers a question with another question, one that makes even less sense. Another reason I cannot and will not accept god.
Were the greeks wrong? The greek gods were around thousands of years before anyone had heard of jesus, longer in fact than christianity has been around now. Why has Zeus been swept under the rug? Where did they all go and who decided the greek gods were all of a sudden "so 5000 bc!!"?
08-09-2007, 09:35 AM
#195
Originally Posted by Shabba2
And no one has answered my question yet...
Who made god? A being that is so advanced and complex as to create the universe had to be created by something more complex than even it. Simple, rational thought there...so who was it? Who made god?
I love how people assign a value to the unknown and name it "god", though with respect to G, Dutch (both my virginia homies!!)and BioChem, they have all sounded like they have thought about this more than the average religious person might have. Kudos to you guys for that.
God was created by man out of fear of the unknown. It's the same place we got ghosts, demons and dragons from : our imagination. It answers a question with another question, one that makes even less sense. Another reason I cannot and will not accept god.
Were the greeks wrong? The greek gods were around thousands of years before anyone had heard of jesus, longer in fact than christianity has been around now. Why has Zeus been swept under the rug? Where did they all go and who decided the greek gods were all of a sudden "so 5000 bc!!"?
Who made god? A being that is so advanced and complex as to create the universe had to be created by something more complex than even it. Simple, rational thought there...so who was it? Who made god?
I love how people assign a value to the unknown and name it "god", though with respect to G, Dutch (both my virginia homies!!)and BioChem, they have all sounded like they have thought about this more than the average religious person might have. Kudos to you guys for that.
God was created by man out of fear of the unknown. It's the same place we got ghosts, demons and dragons from : our imagination. It answers a question with another question, one that makes even less sense. Another reason I cannot and will not accept god.
Were the greeks wrong? The greek gods were around thousands of years before anyone had heard of jesus, longer in fact than christianity has been around now. Why has Zeus been swept under the rug? Where did they all go and who decided the greek gods were all of a sudden "so 5000 bc!!"?
I also am not the type of person to thank god for everything under the son. I do believe everthing happens for a reason, but that doesn't mean it has anything to do with god.
08-09-2007, 10:05 AM
#197
Originally Posted by Tubbs
So because you can't explain something right now, it must be god? And if there was a perfect designer, why aren't we perfect?
Why aren't we perfect? I don't know.
08-09-2007, 10:14 AM
#198
Originally Posted by dutchboy350Z
All valid points. I believe there's something out there that can't be explained, which may be a diety of some sort. I was raised as a Christian, but even at a young age I questioned everything. My parents use to call me "Thomas the doubter" (Thomas is my middle name, also one of the Disciples that questioned the resurrection of Jesus). I remember at one point I said to my mom in not so many words "Come on mom, how on earth could they fit all those animals in one ark, it's just not possible." I knew I stumped her because all she could say is "That's why you have to have faith".
I also am not the type of person to thank god for everything under the son. I do believe everthing happens for a reason, but that doesn't mean it has anything to do with god.
I also am not the type of person to thank god for everything under the son. I do believe everthing happens for a reason, but that doesn't mean it has anything to do with god.
I didn't always understand this process, but does that mean its not possible?
08-09-2007, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Biochem7
Not at all, You were just focusing on all the negative things in life. I was just pointing out some positives about how miraculous we are.
Why aren't we perfect? I don't know.
Why aren't we perfect? I don't know.
Not knowing something isn't a negative. It's a positive. Thinking you know something, which has an extremely high chance of not being true, is a negative to me. Why are you even in sciences?
There is only ONE thing I know. I can produce thoughts. Everything outside of me is debatable if it's real or not.
08-09-2007, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by 4SHIZZIL G-SPOT
There is more to this forum than Mid-Atlantic....You didnt read or see the forum which inspired this post. We are not excluding anyone...and your comments are not helping Christians anywhere homie. They dont inspire or benefit, so why post them?
This forum started from a locol guy looking for people with more in common than his 4 wheeled Z. There are better ways of finding out information, than just jumping into the thread blasting off like a NASA rocket. Calm down dude..read the entire thread, then post your two cents.
This forum started from a locol guy looking for people with more in common than his 4 wheeled Z. There are better ways of finding out information, than just jumping into the thread blasting off like a NASA rocket. Calm down dude..read the entire thread, then post your two cents.
My post was simply criticizing you for posting this topic in a regional when you didn't even ask for local opinions. It seemed like a cloak to avoid posting under the "religion" sub-forum.
I read the original thread and all of this one before I posted. You missed the point or failed to respond to it. Why did you not post in the more appropriate forum?
My 2 cents is simple. I consider myself a Christian in the sense that I choose to believe that Jesus of Nazareth was an exceptionally inspired and inspiring mendicant, probably educated enough to be aware of Greek and Eastern philosophies. I think he was a Gnostic influenced by those and was generally pissed off at the power and corruption of the Jewish religious leaders in his time.
He must have been a very unique individual and sacrificed himself for his beliefs. For people of principles and thought, he was a hero. Becoming a martyr he served to start a religious movement. I'm guessing that like all religious movements, power struggles emerge and the only reason this one developed into a major religion is because of Paul who(against the wishes of many of Jesus' followers)opened it up to the Gentiles(non-Jewish) of which there were millions suffering from Roman domination and were open to a "greater above and beyond".
The trail of historical Christian literature is full of ghost writers, censorship, revisions, suppression, and reformation. All from so-called Christians. If a Jesus were to be born today, he'd be over-turning the money lending tables in the Christian church and doing what the Nazarene did to the Jewish religious leaders.
I'm not saying there isn't incredible value to be had in what has developed into the "Christian" religions. All religions serve a purpose to mankind. People, cultures, and times vary. A one size fits all is never going to happen. Believe what you want and let others do likewise, but you shouldn't need to distort facts for your beliefs to have value. I think that is called fanaticism.
OK, so it was more than 2 cents worth. Just my opinions.