****Any Christains on here??!***
08-08-2007, 01:33 PM
#161
Banned
iTrader: (28)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Columbia, Maryland
Posts: 5,028
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Tubbs
Who wrote about Jesus 70-100 years after Jesus died?
And again... Christ from Krishna...
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen047.html
And again... Christ from Krishna...
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen047.html
Furthermore, the stories of Jesus may have been exaggerated or downright plagiarized but that does not disprove he existed.
08-08-2007, 01:53 PM
#163
Originally Posted by Tubbs
Who wrote about Jesus 70-100 years after Jesus died?
And again... Christ from Krishna...
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen047.html
And again... Christ from Krishna...
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen047.html
edit: Mind you, a lot of the other side (Christain Faith) is trying to make a buck too.
Last edited by dutchboy350Z; 08-08-2007 at 01:55 PM.
08-08-2007, 01:58 PM
#164
Originally Posted by Integrity
Jewish historian Flavius Josephus and Roman historian Carius Cornelius Tacitus both reference Jesus Of Nazareth.
Publius (or Gaius) Cornelius Tacitus (ca. 56 – ca. 117)
Josephus (37 – sometime after 100 CE),
08-08-2007, 02:21 PM
#165
BTW Jesus is used "historically" by many ancient historians NOT because they believed he was christ because most evidence pointed to the fact that he existed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus
Originally Posted by Wikipedia - Historical Jesus
The historical Jesus is Jesus of Nazareth as reconstructed by historians using historical methods. These methods do not include theological or religious axioms, such as biblical infallibility. Though the reconstructions vary, they generally agree on these basic points: Jesus was a Jewish teacher[1] who attracted a small following of Galileans and, after a period of ministry, was crucified by the Romans in Palestine during the governorship of Pontius Pilate. The quest for the historical Jesus began with the work of Hermann Samuel Reimarus.[2]
Last edited by dutchboy350Z; 08-08-2007 at 02:37 PM.
08-08-2007, 02:32 PM
#166
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The 804
Posts: 864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Biochem7
In no way is God arrogant or egotistical. In the past, I let my pride rule my life. I used to think that great things only happen because of my own abilities. I think back now at my teenage days, and I firmly believe that a higher power has kept me alive and guided me in the right direction.
You are right, you don't have to go anywhere or believe anything. Whether you accept him as your savior or not, know this: God does love you.
You are right, you don't have to go anywhere or believe anything. Whether you accept him as your savior or not, know this: God does love you.
If you really believe that great things only happen because some unseen force is guiding you, then why bother at life? Why "testify" to everyone? What's the point, then, of believing if you are already guided in life? That means, btw, that you have NO control over what you do when you die...you realize that right? If god knows all, then god knows what you are going to do and what your life will turn out like...isn't that a bit "pupper master-ish"?
"Let's see, I'm going to string Kenny along and make his life horrible so he will worship me and try to get into heaven after he dies, but in the end, I'm damning him".
Great concept there.
You don't even know that god exists so how are you telling me that this thing loves me?
And jesus, like Tubbs has stated, is a dubious character in history. There is absolutely no concrete proof that he existed. The people who think evolution is a hoax because there is not enough "concrete proof" are the same ones who think some writing proved that jesus was real.
Last edited by Shabba2; 08-08-2007 at 02:37 PM.
08-08-2007, 03:20 PM
#170
Originally Posted by Shabba2
In EVERY way is this deity of yours arrogant and egotistical. A god that kills people for little to no reason, punishes people by killing their children, creates floods to destroy life and requires that you worhip him and only him? I rest my case.
If you really believe that great things only happen because some unseen force is guiding you, then why bother at life? Why "testify" to everyone? What's the point, then, of believing if you are already guided in life? That means, btw, that you have NO control over what you do when you die...you realize that right? If god knows all, then god knows what you are going to do and what your life will turn out like...isn't that a bit "pupper master-ish"?
"Let's see, I'm going to string Kenny along and make his life horrible so he will worship me and try to get into heaven after he dies, but in the end, I'm damning him".
Great concept there.
You don't even know that god exists so how are you telling me that this thing loves me?
And jesus, like Tubbs has stated, is a dubious character in history. There is absolutely no concrete proof that he existed. The people who think evolution is a hoax because there is not enough "concrete proof" are the same ones who think some writing proved that jesus was real.
If you really believe that great things only happen because some unseen force is guiding you, then why bother at life? Why "testify" to everyone? What's the point, then, of believing if you are already guided in life? That means, btw, that you have NO control over what you do when you die...you realize that right? If god knows all, then god knows what you are going to do and what your life will turn out like...isn't that a bit "pupper master-ish"?
"Let's see, I'm going to string Kenny along and make his life horrible so he will worship me and try to get into heaven after he dies, but in the end, I'm damning him".
Great concept there.
You don't even know that god exists so how are you telling me that this thing loves me?
And jesus, like Tubbs has stated, is a dubious character in history. There is absolutely no concrete proof that he existed. The people who think evolution is a hoax because there is not enough "concrete proof" are the same ones who think some writing proved that jesus was real.
What I find funny is that everybody gets bent out of shape when God is given credit for great things that happen in our life. But what happens when a tragedy happens, the first thing the majority of people think is "how could God let this happen?"
Of course you have control of your life. We are not puppets. You think criminals are born criminals? They choose that path in life.
I know God exists. Proof is all around you, but you'll never see it if you refuse too.
08-08-2007, 03:30 PM
#171
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: vancouver
Posts: 7,192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Biochem7
Do you honestly believe that that one day everything just happened to be aligned perfectly and then that's how life came about. I know what evolution is, I work in the lab everyday and close to getting my doctorate in biochemistry. I don't believe that we were an accident or that we are just a byproduct of time.
What I find funny is that everybody gets bent out of shape when God is given credit for great things that happen in our life. But what happens when a tragedy happens, the first thing the majority of people think is "how could God let this happen?"
Of course you have control of your life. We are not puppets. You think criminals are born criminals? They choose that path in life.
I know God exists. Proof is all around you, but you'll never see it if you refuse too.
What I find funny is that everybody gets bent out of shape when God is given credit for great things that happen in our life. But what happens when a tragedy happens, the first thing the majority of people think is "how could God let this happen?"
Of course you have control of your life. We are not puppets. You think criminals are born criminals? They choose that path in life.
I know God exists. Proof is all around you, but you'll never see it if you refuse too.
Well I know 100 percent everything I did in my life "I" did without divine intervention. I worked my ass off and still do. The day will come when someone younger and better will come along. But that's life.
So as a a student in sciences, you see all the mistakes, and imperfections and believe that things had to be "designed" that way? Why do we have a tailbone? Why internals that give out? Why so many deformations? Why is our spine so fragile? Why is life more painful the older we get? Why do we get diseases? Cancer? Why do our eyes give out with use? or for that matter, our joints?
08-08-2007, 03:47 PM
#172
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The 804
Posts: 864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Biochem7
Do you honestly believe that that one day everything just happened to be aligned perfectly and then that's how life came about. I know what evolution is, I work in the lab everyday and close to getting my doctorate in biochemistry. I don't believe that we were an accident or that we are just a byproduct of time.
What I find funny is that everybody gets bent out of shape when God is given credit for great things that happen in our life. But what happens when a tragedy happens, the first thing the majority of people think is "how could God let this happen?"
Of course you have control of your life. We are not puppets. You think criminals are born criminals? They choose that path in life.
I know God exists. Proof is all around you, but you'll never see it if you refuse too.
What I find funny is that everybody gets bent out of shape when God is given credit for great things that happen in our life. But what happens when a tragedy happens, the first thing the majority of people think is "how could God let this happen?"
Of course you have control of your life. We are not puppets. You think criminals are born criminals? They choose that path in life.
I know God exists. Proof is all around you, but you'll never see it if you refuse too.
Yes I get bent out of shape when I do something that I feel is extraordinary and someone says "Thank god". Yes I get bent out of shape when someone says "Thank god ricky bobby wasn't killed in that horrible car wreck that took 3 other lives." Um hello, if there were a god, that god should have intervened to prevent the wreck in the first place. And if that god didn't, then he/she/it is guilty of apathy or callousness. Thus, no god.
If you really believe that a deity created us, then you cannot say that we are in control and have free will. Something powerful enough to create all of this is powerful enough to control the future and if it can't, then it is not all powerful.
Who made god?
You dont have anymore of an idea that god exists than santa claus is real. Proof is all around that god does not exist, but you'll never see if you refuse too.
08-08-2007, 06:41 PM
#173
Registered User
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: MD
Posts: 1,463
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We are not puppets. God does not tell you what to do or what to say. he guides you if you really want him to. He gives everyone free choice. This might sound sappy but we are God's children. He lets us choose what we want to be and do in our lives. He doesn't force us to live a life he wants. Otherwise we might as well be slaves.
So when you say you do something extraordinary do you thank yourself?
A lot of people thank themselves when they do great things but what's the one thing they look for when something goes wrong?
So when you say you do something extraordinary do you thank yourself?
A lot of people thank themselves when they do great things but what's the one thing they look for when something goes wrong?
08-08-2007, 08:53 PM
#174
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The 804
Posts: 864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by kbomb
We are not puppets. God does not tell you what to do or what to say. he guides you if you really want him to. He gives everyone free choice. This might sound sappy but we are God's children. He lets us choose what we want to be and do in our lives. He doesn't force us to live a life he wants. Otherwise we might as well be slaves.
So when you say you do something extraordinary do you thank yourself?
A lot of people thank themselves when they do great things but what's the one thing they look for when something goes wrong?
So when you say you do something extraordinary do you thank yourself?
A lot of people thank themselves when they do great things but what's the one thing they look for when something goes wrong?
I am NOT gods child. I have a mother and father and that is that. I don't think you have caught my drift here. If you believe in god or any god, and believe that being is omnipotent/omniscient, then you are saying that there is no free will. An all knowing being that is powerful enough to create the universe is able to manipulate time and space itself. Therefore, that being knows what is to come. If that being does not act upon that information and allows bad things to happen, then that being is NOT benevolent. That being does indeed make us slaves because it can control our futures and lives. Based on what christianity/judaism/islam say, god is a mean, hateful and manipulative being. How can anyone worship that?
God does not exist.
08-08-2007, 10:17 PM
#175
One Whacked Cat
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Humor me this post......
Religion in any form [faith, cars, food, politics, etc] is akin to the Latin phrase Mobile Vulgus meaning "The easily movable crowd." [many other similar translations] This phrase is the root of the word mob.
To control the mob, a strong higher power is omni-present.
The mob rolls with the consensus/energy of it populace
You must LAUGH OUT LOUDLY as I did learn something in college sociology classes to remember and exemplify this chit!
Sociology majors out there, be gentle on me.
To control the mob, a strong higher power is omni-present.
- Catholics - God, Pope
- Christians - God, Jesus
- Muslims - Allah, Muhammad
- Buddhist - Buddha
- soldiers - generals
- auto workers - UAW
- dealers/users - Cartel
- chefs/cooks/eaters - Food Network
The mob rolls with the consensus/energy of it populace
- Win the championship [insert any sport] - PARTAY! bonfires, car fires, looting, etc.
- Z/G community [or any other] - meets, cruises, drag strips, races, etc.
You must LAUGH OUT LOUDLY as I did learn something in college sociology classes to remember and exemplify this chit!
Sociology majors out there, be gentle on me.
08-09-2007, 04:20 AM
#177
Well....
Originally Posted by Tubbs
Well I know 100 percent everything I did in my life "I" did without divine intervention. I worked my ass off and still do. The day will come when someone younger and better will come along. But that's life.So as a a student in sciences, you see all the mistakes, and imperfections and believe that things had to be "designed" that way? Why do we have a tailbone? Why internals that give out? Why so many deformations? Why is our spine so fragile? Why is life more painful the older we get? Why do we get diseases? Cancer? Why do our eyes give out with use? Or for that matter, our joints?
Do you think you can eat silicone, yellow die #1,2,and 3 and not have some reaction? Or swallow chemicals that deter bugs off fruits and not have a reaction? Or breath the air from a 600HP 350Z running race gas? How about changing your oil and having the oil soak into your body and not have a reaction? I worked on F-15's and F-111's that had hydraulic fulid, many oils, jet fuel, and asbestos clamps and fittings..... Im sure I will get some reaction either sooner or later.
Research "The Makers Diet" and see how people with many of the symptoms you describe have been eliminated because they went to eating from all things that are not man made or scavengers like shrimp and crab....I love shrimp...lol.
Funny how this thread has taken a turn. Again, for all the people who find such offense, you sure are interested in having us explain things for you. Or are you so lost yourself that you need to justify your ways. I admit to being lost and needing a "Master" to guide me through this life of so many options, choices and religions.
I will say this also..I had a car accident at age 16...broke my back in 4 places, broke 4 ribs so bad they depleted on lung and put a nice size hole in the other (steering wheel no air bag). and split my head open along with snapping my shoulder blade into two pieces.
My mom had 8 very scientifically educated doctors tell her....
Team of Dr's: "your son wont make it through the night. His injuries our beyond helping at this point.
Mom:..."that’s a shame"
Team of Dr's: "huh"
Mom: "Out of all the loans, and books, and research you did… you forgot to read the most important book"
Team of Dr.'s: "I’m sorry we don’t understand"
Mom: "The Bible"
Team of Dr's: Look at my Mom like she is on crack as they exit the ER.
Well I am here today and probably can out run and drive (lol) most on the boards. I have no signs of my injury other than an eagle bite (scar) on my dome.
I don’t care what you believe, but someone said, that they only way you escaped that 4dr Camry that looks like a piece of bread folded in two, is that someone was protection you. Every part of that car was demolished except for my seating area.
Now you might say..but engineers made the car that way....I agree..but why did those people decide to be engineers and not bank robbers. I believe everything happens for a reason....not just cause.
I am not pushing my beliefs on anyone. But I will say this...everything that has evolved (EVOLUTION) has evolved. If we came from monkeys..there would be no monkeys...what a select few decided not to evolve.
Since all the non-Christians are so knowledgeable about who and what Jesus was. Can anyone of you explain his prediction prior to his birth, life and death?
Non-Christians have tried to explain the scrolls (Old Testament) that out date Jesus that predict his birth, life, and the name of the man who killed him. Non-Christians say that this probability of prediction would be the number 1 with over a thousand zeros behind it.
"The more they dig out of the ground, the more they prove the Bible to be inerrant” Lon Solomon (Jewish pastor for the Bible based Church of McLean Bible) VA.
Last edited by 4SHIZZIL; 08-09-2007 at 05:07 AM.
08-09-2007, 04:34 AM
#179
Banned
iTrader: (28)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Columbia, Maryland
Posts: 5,028
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Tubbs
There is no mention of ANY historian besides Josephus. In fact, your link states that Josephus' writings are the ONLY historical proof of Jesus, yet we've already established in this thread that he is not. (Tacitus, the Roman historian) You're either not reading the entire thread or not reading your own links. Furthermore, your link discounts Josephus because his writings are "poetic." So 2000 years from now someone just like you is going to refute the existance of the Constitution Of The United States.... because its "poetic." Nonsense. An agnostic should believe that Jesus existed but doubt his divine relation. Only a fanatical atheist tries to disprove he ever existed.