309hp & 257.1 ft. lbs. Intake, Test Pipes, Emanage Blue - Dyno Plots Inside (Dynapac
05-02-2008, 06:12 AM
#81
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so the factor ECU will just over take it? If so how long are we talking? I would hate to spend a few hundred bucks for something that wont last and will have to be re-tuned frequently. More info on this would be appreciated.
05-02-2008, 07:27 AM
#82
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Originally Posted by New JerZ
so the factor ECU will just over take it? If so how long are we talking? I would hate to spend a few hundred bucks for something that wont last and will have to be re-tuned frequently. More info on this would be appreciated.
05-03-2008, 10:05 PM
#83
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Originally Posted by BlackTuner
The short answer to this is... fuel trims and are only applied to closed loop. (cruising conditions)
Originally Posted by OEM Service Manual
SYSTEM DESCRIPTION
The amount of fuel injected from the fuel injector is determined by the ECM. The ECM controls the length of
time the valve remains open (injection pulse duration). The amount of fuel injected is a program value in the
ECM memory. The program value is preset by engine operating conditions. These conditions are determined
by input signals (for engine speed and intake air) from both the crankshaft position sensor and the mass air
flow sensor.
VARIOUS FUEL INJECTION INCREASE/DECREASE COMPENSATION
In addition, the amount of fuel injected is compensated to improve engine performance under various operating
conditions as listed below.
Fuel increase
During warm-up
When starting the engine
During acceleration
Hot-engine operation
When selector lever is changed from N to D (A/T models)
High-load, high-speed operation
Fuel decrease
During deceleration
During high engine speed operation
MIXTURE RATIO FEEDBACK CONTROL (CLOSED LOOP CONTROL)
The mixture ratio feedback system provides the best air-fuel mixture ratio for driveability and emission control.
The three way catalyst 1 can then better reduce CO, HC and NOx emissions. This system uses air fuel ratio
(A/F) sensor 1 in the exhaust manifold to monitor whether the engine operation is rich or lean. The ECM
adjusts the injection pulse width according to the sensor voltage signal. For more information about air fuel
ratio (A/F) sensor 1, refer to EC-257, "DTC P0131, P0151 A/F SENSOR 1" . This maintains the mixture ratio
within the range of stoichiometric (ideal air-fuel mixture).
This stage is referred to as the closed loop control condition.
Heated oxygen sensor 2 is located downstream of the three way catalyst 1. Even if the switching characteristics
of air fuel ratio (A/F) sensor 1 shift, the air-fuel ratio is controlled to stoichiometric by the signal from
heated oxygen sensor 2.
Open Loop Control
The open loop system condition refers to when the ECM detects any of the following conditions. Feedback
control stops in order to maintain stabilized fuel combustion.
Deceleration and acceleration
High-load, high-speed operation
Malfunction of air fuel ratio (A/F) sensor 1 or its circuit
Insufficient activation of air fuel ratio (A/F) sensor 1 at low engine coolant temperature
High engine coolant temperature
During warm-up
After shifting from N to D (A/T models)
When starting the engine
MIXTURE RATIO SELF-LEARNING CONTROL
The mixture ratio feedback control system monitors the mixture ratio signal transmitted from air fuel ratio (A/F)
sensor 1. This feedback signal is then sent to the ECM. The ECM controls the basic mixture ratio as close to
the theoretical mixture ratio as possible. However, the basic mixture ratio is not necessarily controlled as originally
designed. Both manufacturing differences (i.e., mass air flow sensor hot wire) and characteristic
changes during operation (i.e., fuel injector clogging) directly affect mixture ratio.
Accordingly, the difference between the basic and theoretical mixture ratios is monitored in this system. This is
then computed in terms of “injection pulse duration” to automatically compensate for the difference between
the two ratios.
“Fuel trim” refers to the feedback compensation value compared against the basic injection duration. Fuel trim
includes short term fuel trim and long term fuel trim.
“Short term fuel trim” is the short-term fuel compensation used to maintain the mixture ratio at its theoretical
value. The signal from air fuel ratio (A/F) sensor 1 indicates whether the mixture ratio is RICH or LEAN compared
to the theoretical value. The signal then triggers a reduction in fuel volume if the mixture ratio is rich, and
an increase in fuel volume if it is lean
“Long term fuel trim” is overall fuel compensation carried out long-term to compensate for continual deviation
of the short term fuel trim from the central value. Such deviation will occur due to individual engine differences,
wear over time and changes in the usage environment.
The amount of fuel injected from the fuel injector is determined by the ECM. The ECM controls the length of
time the valve remains open (injection pulse duration). The amount of fuel injected is a program value in the
ECM memory. The program value is preset by engine operating conditions. These conditions are determined
by input signals (for engine speed and intake air) from both the crankshaft position sensor and the mass air
flow sensor.
VARIOUS FUEL INJECTION INCREASE/DECREASE COMPENSATION
In addition, the amount of fuel injected is compensated to improve engine performance under various operating
conditions as listed below.
Fuel increase
During warm-up
When starting the engine
During acceleration
Hot-engine operation
When selector lever is changed from N to D (A/T models)
High-load, high-speed operation
Fuel decrease
During deceleration
During high engine speed operation
MIXTURE RATIO FEEDBACK CONTROL (CLOSED LOOP CONTROL)
The mixture ratio feedback system provides the best air-fuel mixture ratio for driveability and emission control.
The three way catalyst 1 can then better reduce CO, HC and NOx emissions. This system uses air fuel ratio
(A/F) sensor 1 in the exhaust manifold to monitor whether the engine operation is rich or lean. The ECM
adjusts the injection pulse width according to the sensor voltage signal. For more information about air fuel
ratio (A/F) sensor 1, refer to EC-257, "DTC P0131, P0151 A/F SENSOR 1" . This maintains the mixture ratio
within the range of stoichiometric (ideal air-fuel mixture).
This stage is referred to as the closed loop control condition.
Heated oxygen sensor 2 is located downstream of the three way catalyst 1. Even if the switching characteristics
of air fuel ratio (A/F) sensor 1 shift, the air-fuel ratio is controlled to stoichiometric by the signal from
heated oxygen sensor 2.
Open Loop Control
The open loop system condition refers to when the ECM detects any of the following conditions. Feedback
control stops in order to maintain stabilized fuel combustion.
Deceleration and acceleration
High-load, high-speed operation
Malfunction of air fuel ratio (A/F) sensor 1 or its circuit
Insufficient activation of air fuel ratio (A/F) sensor 1 at low engine coolant temperature
High engine coolant temperature
During warm-up
After shifting from N to D (A/T models)
When starting the engine
MIXTURE RATIO SELF-LEARNING CONTROL
The mixture ratio feedback control system monitors the mixture ratio signal transmitted from air fuel ratio (A/F)
sensor 1. This feedback signal is then sent to the ECM. The ECM controls the basic mixture ratio as close to
the theoretical mixture ratio as possible. However, the basic mixture ratio is not necessarily controlled as originally
designed. Both manufacturing differences (i.e., mass air flow sensor hot wire) and characteristic
changes during operation (i.e., fuel injector clogging) directly affect mixture ratio.
Accordingly, the difference between the basic and theoretical mixture ratios is monitored in this system. This is
then computed in terms of “injection pulse duration” to automatically compensate for the difference between
the two ratios.
“Fuel trim” refers to the feedback compensation value compared against the basic injection duration. Fuel trim
includes short term fuel trim and long term fuel trim.
“Short term fuel trim” is the short-term fuel compensation used to maintain the mixture ratio at its theoretical
value. The signal from air fuel ratio (A/F) sensor 1 indicates whether the mixture ratio is RICH or LEAN compared
to the theoretical value. The signal then triggers a reduction in fuel volume if the mixture ratio is rich, and
an increase in fuel volume if it is lean
“Long term fuel trim” is overall fuel compensation carried out long-term to compensate for continual deviation
of the short term fuel trim from the central value. Such deviation will occur due to individual engine differences,
wear over time and changes in the usage environment.
05-03-2008, 10:15 PM
#84
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There is a nice diagram showing closed loop control (that I can't post), dummy me got the two mixed up in an earlier post after reading this previously (doh).
But basically, what I gleam from this that is important (and one of the reasons I think tuning the cars for normal driving is proving harder) is that the car in any cases other than:
Deceleration and acceleration
High-load, high-speed operation
Malfunction of air fuel ratio (A/F) sensor 1 or its circuit
Insufficient activation of air fuel ratio (A/F) sensor 1 at low engine coolant temperature
High engine coolant temperature
During warm-up
After shifting from N to D (A/T models)
When starting the engine
runs in "closed loop" using short term and eventually long term fuel trims to tend towards the lowest possible emissions.
Then during the aforementioned cases, the ECU goes into "open loop" and runs default fuel trims based on "locked down" tables in the ECM.
So basically, given the caveat that I am understanding this correctly after more digging, tune the car using a piggyback for full throttle type situations. The closed loop operation will adapt and the LTFT values will probably richen the mixture for cruising etc., but the adjusted fueling values (by shifting MAF input signal to shift within the fixed chart in the ECM) will remain locked.
Cliffs - you can get the car tuned with a piggyback like an e-manage and the tune should stay for WOT type stuff, but will get adapted around for partial throttle so don't waste money tuning for that without isolating/removing the ECU more completely.
But basically, what I gleam from this that is important (and one of the reasons I think tuning the cars for normal driving is proving harder) is that the car in any cases other than:
Deceleration and acceleration
High-load, high-speed operation
Malfunction of air fuel ratio (A/F) sensor 1 or its circuit
Insufficient activation of air fuel ratio (A/F) sensor 1 at low engine coolant temperature
High engine coolant temperature
During warm-up
After shifting from N to D (A/T models)
When starting the engine
runs in "closed loop" using short term and eventually long term fuel trims to tend towards the lowest possible emissions.
Then during the aforementioned cases, the ECU goes into "open loop" and runs default fuel trims based on "locked down" tables in the ECM.
So basically, given the caveat that I am understanding this correctly after more digging, tune the car using a piggyback for full throttle type situations. The closed loop operation will adapt and the LTFT values will probably richen the mixture for cruising etc., but the adjusted fueling values (by shifting MAF input signal to shift within the fixed chart in the ECM) will remain locked.
Cliffs - you can get the car tuned with a piggyback like an e-manage and the tune should stay for WOT type stuff, but will get adapted around for partial throttle so don't waste money tuning for that without isolating/removing the ECU more completely.
05-04-2008, 01:06 AM
#85
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Originally Posted by Peak350
There is a nice diagram showing closed loop control (that I can't post), dummy me got the two mixed up in an earlier post after reading this previously (doh).
But basically, what I gleam from this that is important (and one of the reasons I think tuning the cars for normal driving is proving harder) is that the car in any cases other than:
Deceleration and acceleration
High-load, high-speed operation
Malfunction of air fuel ratio (A/F) sensor 1 or its circuit
Insufficient activation of air fuel ratio (A/F) sensor 1 at low engine coolant temperature
High engine coolant temperature
During warm-up
After shifting from N to D (A/T models)
When starting the engine
runs in "closed loop" using short term and eventually long term fuel trims to tend towards the lowest possible emissions.
Then during the aforementioned cases, the ECU goes into "open loop" and runs default fuel trims based on "locked down" tables in the ECM.
So basically, given the caveat that I am understanding this correctly after more digging, tune the car using a piggyback for full throttle type situations. The closed loop operation will adapt and the LTFT values will probably richen the mixture for cruising etc., but the adjusted fueling values (by shifting MAF input signal to shift within the fixed chart in the ECM) will remain locked.
Cliffs - you can get the car tuned with a piggyback like an e-manage and the tune should stay for WOT type stuff, but will get adapted around for partial throttle so don't waste money tuning for that without isolating/removing the ECU more completely.
But basically, what I gleam from this that is important (and one of the reasons I think tuning the cars for normal driving is proving harder) is that the car in any cases other than:
Deceleration and acceleration
High-load, high-speed operation
Malfunction of air fuel ratio (A/F) sensor 1 or its circuit
Insufficient activation of air fuel ratio (A/F) sensor 1 at low engine coolant temperature
High engine coolant temperature
During warm-up
After shifting from N to D (A/T models)
When starting the engine
runs in "closed loop" using short term and eventually long term fuel trims to tend towards the lowest possible emissions.
Then during the aforementioned cases, the ECU goes into "open loop" and runs default fuel trims based on "locked down" tables in the ECM.
So basically, given the caveat that I am understanding this correctly after more digging, tune the car using a piggyback for full throttle type situations. The closed loop operation will adapt and the LTFT values will probably richen the mixture for cruising etc., but the adjusted fueling values (by shifting MAF input signal to shift within the fixed chart in the ECM) will remain locked.
Cliffs - you can get the car tuned with a piggyback like an e-manage and the tune should stay for WOT type stuff, but will get adapted around for partial throttle so don't waste money tuning for that without isolating/removing the ECU more completely.
05-04-2008, 07:46 AM
#87
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Originally Posted by New JerZ
so whats the concensus here... Will it be worth almost 500 for install and tune or does it make more sense to opt for the technosquare?
It however cannot change the rev limiter, cannot remove the top speed limiter (which is controlled through CAN bus stuff, so I doubt we ever will without a reflash), and won't increase throttle response. A reflash is a "better option," but I'm hoping to have this installed and tuned for <$350-400.
Originally Posted by BlackTuner
Dude you should sleep..
I thought I understood what you were saying with the short answer, but I'm na engineer so that doesn't suffice for my .... curiosity.
05-04-2008, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by New JerZ
what would the point of theplug and play be... Ease of re-tuning? Enlighten me, I am a tuning novice.
I might just let it go.
05-05-2008, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackTuner
The short answer to this is... fuel trims and are only applied to closed loop. (cruising conditions)
05-05-2008, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackTuner
The short answer to this is... fuel trims and are only applied to closed loop. (cruising conditions)
When you get a chance, email me the Shcematic of how you set it up with the pinouts.Im installing and tuning one this week..
05-05-2008, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Julian@MRC
J,
When you get a chance, email me the Shcematic of how you set it up with the pinouts.Im installing and tuning one this week..
When you get a chance, email me the Shcematic of how you set it up with the pinouts.Im installing and tuning one this week..
Ecu Pinouts
http://pdftown.com/PDF-Nissan-Z350-2...ce-Manual.html
Simple Diagram:
Wire Action ECU Pin NOTE
RED TAP 53 12v pOWER
BLACK Connect to Chassis Ground
BROWN TAP 110 ENGINE RPM
GREEN INTERCEPT OUT 77/79 MAF OUT TO ECU COMBINE PIN 77 & 79
WHITE INTERCEPT IN 77 #1 MAF IN IN FROM ENGINE BAY - I also tapped here for TPS(load indicator)
YELLOW INTERCEPT 79 #2 MAF IN IN FROM ENGINE BAY
__________________
Last edited by BlackTuner; 05-05-2008 at 08:02 AM.
05-05-2008, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackTuner
Greddy Brown wire to Factory ecu pin 110.
Thanks a bunch man. Look forward to *cheap* power.