Never did. What's your point? Certainly you're not going to insist that everything sold/marketed for cars has good science behind it right? Like fuel additives, TTFE oil additives, grounding kits, aftermarket intakes, plenum spacers ()......

And if you're going to quote me, quote the part where I said that since the rings cost about $8 or so that it really makes no difference. If you find the science compelling, get 'em, use 'em and be happy. I do not find the science compelling (as you say, it might be that I don't understand it), but I have a set and will use them.....because they're cheap. Cheap snake oil is a whole other thing.....

 

My point is that you're talking about something you know nothing about. If you have no education backround in yield strength and plastic deformation, you shouldn't talk about yield strength and plastic deformation. If you have no educational background in specific material properties, you shouldn't talk about specific material properties. If you don't have a good understanding of the direction and magnitude of forces on a rotating wheel/hub/stud system.....

And your crude experiment in which you squeezed the outer portion of the ring to demonstrate the inability of the ring to perform what it's intended to do doesn't expose the ring to the same type of force that it experiences when installed between a hub and a wheel.

It's not a matter of all car parts having good science to support their use or not, it's you arriving at a conclusion about the parts without using any good science at all.

 

edit: double post

 

That's just idiotic. If we all had to have a PhD in every aspect of mechanics or physics discussed on a automotive web site then there would be no discussion at all. And the same would go for you. Even if you are a PhD, that might not be good enough for someone else, they might ask if you wrote the seminal thesis on plastic deformation, and if you didn't then you shouldn't be talking about it either.

If you have something useful to say about plastic deformation then say it, otherwise you need not be talking about educational background checks and trying to suppress conversation.

 

I'm not suppressing conversation, I'm suppressing bullsh*t. I certainly don't know everything about materials and static/dynamic forces, but know something. Based on what you've said previously you know next to nothing. Regardless of what I know, I'm not the one making conclusions about something I don't know.

 

Certainly a plastic ring will be less rigid than a steel or aluminum ring of equivalent dimensions, and surely the plastic material is weaker than steel or aluminum from a tensile standpoint. But in this application, the ring is in compression as it transfers the load of the wheel to the hub (assuming that the lug nuts are acting purely to hold the wheel axially onto the brake rotor hat, and there is no friction between the wheel and the rotor hat, so therefore all weight load of the car on the road is transferred from the wheel to the hub via the ring).

The failure mode of the ring would be in crushing (compression). I can't substantiate this, but I am inclined to believe that the yield strength in compression would be much higher than the stress created by the road force transmitted through the wheel to the hub.

And of course any rotating object is subjected to tensile stress due to centrifugal force which could result in "burst" failure, but the speed of the wheel hub (even at 200 mph, let's say) would not be sufficient to induce enough tensile stress in the ring to cause burst failure.

Now I will say that I would not feel comfortable using cheap plastic rings in a racing application where the brake rotors will reach extremely high temperatures and could cause the ring to deform / melt.


Side note: Phenom, I had no idea you were a degreed engineer. Wish it would have come up when you were down picking up the wheels, we coulda nerded out on some coriolis acceleration problems and compared stories of all the ugly-yet-oddly-stuck-up chicks from our ME classes.

 

just measure the depth (inside) of the lug nut and measure the length of the bolt remaining AFTER you put the spacers on.

 

Lol yup registered nerd right here. And lmao at the eerily accurate statement about ME females.

 

So Im looking for 10mm wheel spacers that have longer studs built in the spacers. Almost all companies that have the longer studs built in start at 15mm spacers and go up like the Ichiba Version II's. Does anyone know any company that makes 10mm pre-studded spacers like the FIC Racing ones but that dont cost $200 for a set ??

 

Just run a slip on spacer, so much easier and better. Order a set thru http://www.z1motorsports.com/350_g35...oducts_id=4215 gt the ARP studs and your set for any spacer need in the future.

 

So youre saying with those spacers i can just buy 2 10mm and 2 15mm and use the studs that come with them as slip on spacers even though they are not installed into spacer? So i basically make them into an Ichiba Version II spacer myself without having to removie my rotors and replace the OEM studs in my hub??

 

Install the studs to the hub, then run the slip-on. Easier to work with than bolt ons at half the price (after the initial extended stud purchase). If you ever want to go bigger or smaller later on youll just need to buy the slip on. No stripped spacer nuts or protruding studs to worry about either.

 

The problem with this is how expensive it is to have the studs installed. That the whole reason Im trying to buy 10mm PRE-STUDDED spacers. That way i just throw the space on with the OEM stud still in play. The problem here is, from what ive seen from searching, is that no one makes 10mm prestudded spacers. If i went the slip on route, it takes a long time (labor cost) to attach the studs into the hub. Im not a mechanic by any standards, but i have dont little things myself like changing the OEM battery, all the laighting being changed to LED/HID's, etc. But with things such as suspension and brakes, i dont trust my ability or my mechanical work. Hence why i made the thread in the first place. So again i must ask, anyone know any company that makes a studded 10mm spacer?

 

I looked for these myself a couple years back when I wanted 10mm spacers. Unfortunately I was not able to find any. I think the problem is that the resulting cross-section thickness of the spacer after the holes are counter-bored for the heads of the studs is not strong enough to handle the lateral forces of the car transmitted through the wheels. So while it's geometrically possible, it doesn't provide enough strength for the application.

 

Takes about 45 minutes a side, the front are really easy , the rears are a little bit harder. No better time to start earning your man card. Buy a 6 pack, have a friend help you out and knock it out on a sat morning. If not, ask in your regional section if there is someone like me who will cruise over and knock it out for $80.

Even paying the $80ish for labor , you will be ahead, V2 style spacers usually cost around $120+ a set.

 

Project Kics makes a 10mm spacer with studs built into it. I'm pretty sure it's made from steel though because aluminum probably wouldn't hold up very well.

 

^ Nice find! I must have overlooked that during my searching, because I know I looked for both KICS and Ichiba 10mm w/ studs. Maybe I just used the wrong search terms.

 

Installing studs into the hub is very very simple. My first time it took me about 20 minutes per hub, just because i was taking my time. The fronts are a piece of cake. The rears are only harder because you have the loose brake parts that you have to make sure you don't knock out and theres a little lip over the head of each stud on the back of the hub which makes it hard to see if the stud has been pulled all the way through.

You don't need a press. This is the thread I followed the first time I did it. Very easy
http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/rep...acers-kit.html

 

To my knowledge they are the only ones that make them. I've seen them up close and they're pretty high quality and have some heft to them. They probably weigh as much as a standard 50mm aluminum spacer.

There are multiple vendors online that sell them though.

 

Thank you guys for all the help. I came across those earlier but the price made me a little weary. However after looking around, its looking like ill have to purchase these. Not really wanting to run a open lug nut after installing new studs in the hub so we"ll see what happens. Either way thanks alot boys!