350zhr vs 370z acceleration
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From: Quad Cities
I agree Blasian, but when you can't put the same mods on the HR that the VHR had that day, then it isn't a comparison. Stock vs Stock the VHR obviously dynos more. But we are talking about gains per mod. Put the same mods on the HR car and you will see pretty much the same gains as the VHR gets.
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Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Quad Cities
Magazines are the only ones posting times and if they had already ran a 13.1 or better this conversation wouldn't be happening. It all hinges on the 'mags'...
Remove magazines from the equation.. which comparison is valid
times ran with 350z vs times ran with 370z
or
times ran with 350z vs times assumed for 370z
You can play it out on paper all you want but it doesn't mean it's reality. Until someone runs better than a 13.1 the 350Z HR is faster. You can't use an illogical fallacy here and expect everyone to be on board.
Remove magazines from the equation.. which comparison is valid
times ran with 350z vs times ran with 370z
or
times ran with 350z vs times assumed for 370z
You can play it out on paper all you want but it doesn't mean it's reality. Until someone runs better than a 13.1 the 350Z HR is faster. You can't use an illogical fallacy here and expect everyone to be on board.
Magazines are the only ones posting times and if they had already ran a 13.1 or better this conversation wouldn't be happening. It all hinges on the 'mags'...
Remove magazines from the equation.. which comparison is valid
times ran with 350z vs times ran with 370z
or
times ran with 350z vs times assumed for 370z
You can play it out on paper all you want but it doesn't mean it's reality. Until someone runs better than a 13.1 the 350Z HR is faster. You can't use an illogical fallacy here and expect everyone to be on board.
Remove magazines from the equation.. which comparison is valid
times ran with 350z vs times ran with 370z
or
times ran with 350z vs times assumed for 370z
You can play it out on paper all you want but it doesn't mean it's reality. Until someone runs better than a 13.1 the 350Z HR is faster. You can't use an illogical fallacy here and expect everyone to be on board.
Right now, the 350z recorded a faster time.. But no 370z has gone to the track yet on this board; that doesn't mean its slower.. but we are just beating a dead horse.
Give the 370z a year or two and the times will start averaging out.. my belief is that judging by the same weight, more power, shorter gears, the average time will be lower.
No i'm not a fanboy either, I own a HR 350z.. if the HR is indeed quicker i'd be all for that.
Track times for 350z HR vs no Track time for 370z doesn't automatically make the 370z slower IMO, to you and solo, yes, but to me no.. just because two people recorded 13.1 doesn't mean no 370z will touch that.. yes those times are hard to touch.. but the standard deviation really falls away from that time.. i'd say mean times for the HR = 13.5-13.7
Judging by your "logical fallacy" here all new cars are slower than their older counter parts if they haven't been taken to the track and have no track time yet?
Last edited by itsjiggajames; Apr 2, 2009 at 12:13 PM.
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From: Bay Area
This is an entertaining thread, I've never seen so much verbal vomit... 
Conditions between magazine tests and magazine drivers vary greatly. Conditions between the current "record holders" in the 350Z also vary greatly and different motors in different cars of the same model also vary SIGNIFICANTLY in their performance.
I see this proven out every day on a dyno when we test new products on several to half a dozen different cars with the "same" motor. Bear in mind, the results on the same car can change between a "morning" run, an "afternoon" run and an "evening" run let alone the environmental changes that can occur on a completely different day.
This applies to drag runs as well. How many times have the current record holders repeated their 13.1xx times to prove they weren't just a fluke? I'm not trying to bag on them, because those are excellent times and clearly illustrate their driving skill and how well their cars and the track was performing ON THAT SPECIFIC DAY.
The 350Z HR & DE have had years for their development and fine tuning to be perfected.
The 370Z/G37 are only recently on the scene and it will be some time before they achieve the same degree of refinement when the tuners learn to extract the maximum performance out of this platform.
My opinion is that the 370Z (conclusively) has more "potential" than the 350Z HR or DE. Has that potential been realized yet? Nope. Was the '03 350Z's potential realized in it's first 4 months? Nope. Was the HR's potential realized in it's first few months? Nope. Did they all end up kicking butt (in their time) once the tuners figured out what they had to work with and the best way to tune them for maximum performance? ABSOLUTELY.
Now, can we get back to making these cars rock?
The 370Z is going to take bolt-on mods like nobody's business, lord help us when we see FI solutions arrive and the 350Z HR does NOT have the same potential as the new 370Z.
Conditions between magazine tests and magazine drivers vary greatly. Conditions between the current "record holders" in the 350Z also vary greatly and different motors in different cars of the same model also vary SIGNIFICANTLY in their performance.
I see this proven out every day on a dyno when we test new products on several to half a dozen different cars with the "same" motor. Bear in mind, the results on the same car can change between a "morning" run, an "afternoon" run and an "evening" run let alone the environmental changes that can occur on a completely different day.
This applies to drag runs as well. How many times have the current record holders repeated their 13.1xx times to prove they weren't just a fluke? I'm not trying to bag on them, because those are excellent times and clearly illustrate their driving skill and how well their cars and the track was performing ON THAT SPECIFIC DAY.
The 350Z HR & DE have had years for their development and fine tuning to be perfected.
The 370Z/G37 are only recently on the scene and it will be some time before they achieve the same degree of refinement when the tuners learn to extract the maximum performance out of this platform.
My opinion is that the 370Z (conclusively) has more "potential" than the 350Z HR or DE. Has that potential been realized yet? Nope. Was the '03 350Z's potential realized in it's first 4 months? Nope. Was the HR's potential realized in it's first few months? Nope. Did they all end up kicking butt (in their time) once the tuners figured out what they had to work with and the best way to tune them for maximum performance? ABSOLUTELY.
Now, can we get back to making these cars rock?
The 370Z is going to take bolt-on mods like nobody's business, lord help us when we see FI solutions arrive and the 350Z HR does NOT have the same potential as the new 370Z.
I see your point, but I never stated anything about mag times still.. you can believe what you want as well, i'll stick to my beliefs.
Right now, the 350z recorded a faster time.. But no 370z has gone to the track yet on this board; that doesn't mean its slower.. but we are just beating a dead horse.
Give the 370z a year or two and the times will start averaging out.. my belief is that judging by the same weight, more power, shorter gears, the average time will be lower.
No i'm not a fanboy either, I own a HR 350z.. if the HR is indeed quicker i'd be all for that.
Track times for 350z HR vs no Track time for 370z doesn't automatically make the 370z slower IMO, to you and solo, yes, but to me no.. just because two people recorded 13.1 doesn't mean no 370z will touch that.. yes those times are hard to touch.. but the standard deviation really falls away from that time.. i'd say mean times for the HR = 13.5-13.7
Judging by your "logical fallacy" here all new cars are slower than their older counter parts if they haven't been taken to the track and have no track time yet?
Right now, the 350z recorded a faster time.. But no 370z has gone to the track yet on this board; that doesn't mean its slower.. but we are just beating a dead horse.
Give the 370z a year or two and the times will start averaging out.. my belief is that judging by the same weight, more power, shorter gears, the average time will be lower.
No i'm not a fanboy either, I own a HR 350z.. if the HR is indeed quicker i'd be all for that.
Track times for 350z HR vs no Track time for 370z doesn't automatically make the 370z slower IMO, to you and solo, yes, but to me no.. just because two people recorded 13.1 doesn't mean no 370z will touch that.. yes those times are hard to touch.. but the standard deviation really falls away from that time.. i'd say mean times for the HR = 13.5-13.7
Judging by your "logical fallacy" here all new cars are slower than their older counter parts if they haven't been taken to the track and have no track time yet?
Yes, the 370z will prolly do a 12.9 or something, but until that time or anyother time is posted then 350z HR still has the Rank of #1 and 370z is unranked as of this moment. Refer to my previous post, it explains this in detail.
Your missing our point. S8ER95Z, may or may not agree with me, but what I know I'm saying is that the 370z is a faster car, but until the times have officially been recorded with the same type of drivers recording the 13.1 with a 350z HR, then it's still not on record as being faster.
Yes, the 370z will prolly do a 12.9 or something, but until that time or anyother time is posted then 350z HR still has the Rank of #1 and 370z is unranked as of this moment. Refer to my previous post, it explains this in detail.
Yes, the 370z will prolly do a 12.9 or something, but until that time or anyother time is posted then 350z HR still has the Rank of #1 and 370z is unranked as of this moment. Refer to my previous post, it explains this in detail.
Veetec ran the 13.1 times multiple times and multiple days just a FYI.
This is an entertaining thread, I've never seen so much verbal vomit...
Conditions between magazine tests and magazine drivers vary greatly. Conditions between the current "record holders" in the 350Z also vary greatly and different motors in different cars of the same model also vary SIGNIFICANTLY in their performance.
I see this proven out every day on a dyno when we test new products on several to half a dozen different cars with the "same" motor. Bear in mind, the results on the same car can change between a "morning" run, an "afternoon" run and an "evening" run let alone the environmental changes that can occur on a completely different day.
This applies to drag runs as well. How many times have the current record holders repeated their 13.1xx times to prove they weren't just a fluke? I'm not trying to bag on them, because those are excellent times and clearly illustrate their driving skill and how well their cars and the track was performing ON THAT SPECIFIC DAY.
The 350Z HR & DE have had years for their development and fine tuning to be perfected.
The 370Z/G37 are only recently on the scene and it will be some time before they achieve the same degree of refinement when the tuners learn to extract the maximum performance out of this platform.
My opinion is that the 370Z (conclusively) has more "potential" than the 350Z HR or DE. Has that potential been realized yet? Nope. Was the '03 350Z's potential realized in it's first 4 months? Nope. Was the HR's potential realized in it's first few months? Nope. Did they all end up kicking butt (in their time) once the tuners figured out what they had to work with and the best way to tune them for maximum performance? ABSOLUTELY.
Now, can we get back to making these cars rock?
The 370Z is going to take bolt-on mods like nobody's business, lord help us when we see FI solutions arrive and the 350Z HR does NOT have the same potential as the new 370Z.
Conditions between magazine tests and magazine drivers vary greatly. Conditions between the current "record holders" in the 350Z also vary greatly and different motors in different cars of the same model also vary SIGNIFICANTLY in their performance.
I see this proven out every day on a dyno when we test new products on several to half a dozen different cars with the "same" motor. Bear in mind, the results on the same car can change between a "morning" run, an "afternoon" run and an "evening" run let alone the environmental changes that can occur on a completely different day.
This applies to drag runs as well. How many times have the current record holders repeated their 13.1xx times to prove they weren't just a fluke? I'm not trying to bag on them, because those are excellent times and clearly illustrate their driving skill and how well their cars and the track was performing ON THAT SPECIFIC DAY.
The 350Z HR & DE have had years for their development and fine tuning to be perfected.
The 370Z/G37 are only recently on the scene and it will be some time before they achieve the same degree of refinement when the tuners learn to extract the maximum performance out of this platform.
My opinion is that the 370Z (conclusively) has more "potential" than the 350Z HR or DE. Has that potential been realized yet? Nope. Was the '03 350Z's potential realized in it's first 4 months? Nope. Was the HR's potential realized in it's first few months? Nope. Did they all end up kicking butt (in their time) once the tuners figured out what they had to work with and the best way to tune them for maximum performance? ABSOLUTELY.
Now, can we get back to making these cars rock?
The 370Z is going to take bolt-on mods like nobody's business, lord help us when we see FI solutions arrive and the 350Z HR does NOT have the same potential as the new 370Z.
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Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Quad Cities
Your missing our point. S8ER95Z, may or may not agree with me, but what I know I'm saying is that the 370z is a faster car, but until the times have officially been recorded with the same type of drivers recording the 13.1 with a 350z HR, then it's still not on record as being faster.
Yes, the 370z will prolly do a 12.9 or something, but until that time or anyother time is posted then 350z HR still has the Rank of #1 and 370z is unranked as of this moment. Refer to my previous post, it explains this in detail.
Yes, the 370z will prolly do a 12.9 or something, but until that time or anyother time is posted then 350z HR still has the Rank of #1 and 370z is unranked as of this moment. Refer to my previous post, it explains this in detail.
There is more merit in arguing that the 350Z is 'faster' than the 370Z than there is trying to do the opposite considering there is nothing to speak of on the 370Zs part that would make a case.
Judging by your "logical fallacy" here all new cars are slower than their older counter parts if they haven't been taken to the track and have no track time yet?
I am just doing logical comparisons here and if one of the cars doesn't have a track time to speak of it loses by default. I don't think I was coming acrossed as clear as I had hoped... the fact that you agreed with d1mon3k means you actually understand my point but don't exactly agree with how I reached my conclusion.
d1mon3k well said once again.
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 261
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From: Boston, MA
This is an entertaining thread, I've never seen so much verbal vomit...
Conditions between magazine tests and magazine drivers vary greatly. Conditions between the current "record holders" in the 350Z also vary greatly and different motors in different cars of the same model also vary SIGNIFICANTLY in their performance.
I see this proven out every day on a dyno when we test new products on several to half a dozen different cars with the "same" motor. Bear in mind, the results on the same car can change between a "morning" run, an "afternoon" run and an "evening" run let alone the environmental changes that can occur on a completely different day.
This applies to drag runs as well. How many times have the current record holders repeated their 13.1xx times to prove they weren't just a fluke? I'm not trying to bag on them, because those are excellent times and clearly illustrate their driving skill and how well their cars and the track was performing ON THAT SPECIFIC DAY.
The 350Z HR & DE have had years for their development and fine tuning to be perfected.
The 370Z/G37 are only recently on the scene and it will be some time before they achieve the same degree of refinement when the tuners learn to extract the maximum performance out of this platform.
My opinion is that the 370Z (conclusively) has more "potential" than the 350Z HR or DE. Has that potential been realized yet? Nope. Was the '03 350Z's potential realized in it's first 4 months? Nope. Was the HR's potential realized in it's first few months? Nope. Did they all end up kicking butt (in their time) once the tuners figured out what they had to work with and the best way to tune them for maximum performance? ABSOLUTELY.
Now, can we get back to making these cars rock?
The 370Z is going to take bolt-on mods like nobody's business, lord help us when we see FI solutions arrive and the 350Z HR does NOT have the same potential as the new 370Z.
Conditions between magazine tests and magazine drivers vary greatly. Conditions between the current "record holders" in the 350Z also vary greatly and different motors in different cars of the same model also vary SIGNIFICANTLY in their performance.
I see this proven out every day on a dyno when we test new products on several to half a dozen different cars with the "same" motor. Bear in mind, the results on the same car can change between a "morning" run, an "afternoon" run and an "evening" run let alone the environmental changes that can occur on a completely different day.
This applies to drag runs as well. How many times have the current record holders repeated their 13.1xx times to prove they weren't just a fluke? I'm not trying to bag on them, because those are excellent times and clearly illustrate their driving skill and how well their cars and the track was performing ON THAT SPECIFIC DAY.
The 350Z HR & DE have had years for their development and fine tuning to be perfected.
The 370Z/G37 are only recently on the scene and it will be some time before they achieve the same degree of refinement when the tuners learn to extract the maximum performance out of this platform.
My opinion is that the 370Z (conclusively) has more "potential" than the 350Z HR or DE. Has that potential been realized yet? Nope. Was the '03 350Z's potential realized in it's first 4 months? Nope. Was the HR's potential realized in it's first few months? Nope. Did they all end up kicking butt (in their time) once the tuners figured out what they had to work with and the best way to tune them for maximum performance? ABSOLUTELY.
Now, can we get back to making these cars rock?
The 370Z is going to take bolt-on mods like nobody's business, lord help us when we see FI solutions arrive and the 350Z HR does NOT have the same potential as the new 370Z.
370z > 350z, get used to it...and for some people who i beleive think the Hr is all mighty, i have never lost to a HR with my DE, before i was boosted at the track I ran 13.8 stock and went 13.6 with intake and exhaust no tune street tires on my 19's 03 touring, driver is a huge mod and some people don't get that which i understand maybe the other drivers can't drive but ive had my shot at 3 HR's and all three of them lost with the closest one running a 13.9 with exhaust and intake. weight is a big factor which i can see where the HR guys are coming from here, but still the 370z is a better car than the HR and will prove to be in time
370z > 350z, get used to it...and for some people who i beleive think the Hr is all mighty, i have never lost to a HR with my DE, before i was boosted at the track I ran 13.8 stock and went 13.6 with intake and exhaust no tune street tires on my 19's 03 touring, driver is a huge mod and some people don't get that which i understand maybe the other drivers can't drive but ive had my shot at 3 HR's and all three of them lost with the closest one running a 13.9 with exhaust and intake. weight is a big factor which i can see where the HR guys are coming from here, but still the 370z is a better car than the HR and will prove to be in time
fyi you sound exactly like the hr fanboys.... hr hating on vhr .... de hating on hr....
vhr>hr>de
this thread seriously needs to be locked as its no value added to my350 community