The Brutal Truth about the Z35 - Page 6 - MY350Z.COM - Nissan 350Z and 370Z Forum Discussion

Notices
2009+ 370Z General discussion and news for the Z34 (2009+) Nissan 370z with the new 3.7-liter V6

The Brutal Truth about the Z35

Old 01-24-2016, 09:31 AM
  #101  
dkmura
General & DIY Moderator
MY350Z.COM
Thread Starter
iTrader: (62)
 
dkmura's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Aurora, Colorado
Posts: 6,669
Thanked 656 Times in 457 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Toasterflyer View Post
These American muscle cars are all trying to catch up to the GT-R...so this is leaving the Z car to condend with the BRZ/FRS class of cars... Nissan is in a strange spot with the Z car. They sort of backed themselves up into a niche corner and will be interesting to see how it plays out. Could be another reason why Nissan scrapped the very cool looking IDx... I would have signed up for that car in a heartbeat. Thanks Nissan for not putting that into production..grrrr..
In terms of horsepower and 0-60 times, current muscle cars have caught up to the R35. But in terms of overall performance, the GT-R and its ATTESA AWD system is still way ahead. it's real competition--the supercars of the world--are also hard pressed to meet the GT-Rs all-weather performance standard.

As for the Z, Nissan positioned both the Z33 and Z34 above the BRZ/FRS and MX-5, but below the Porsche Cayman, BMW Z4 M-coupe, etc. It's an interesting market segment, but the BRUTAL TRUTH is that there's just not many sales in it. Certainly nothing like the sales of CUVs, 1/2 ton trucks and mainstream sedans. The IDx would have been positioned below the Z and would have required a ton of R&D to make it right. Just look at sales of the new MX-5 Miata (a very nice car) and tell me Mazda isn't disappointed.

Last edited by dkmura; 01-24-2016 at 09:32 AM.
dkmura is offline  
Old 01-24-2016, 12:39 PM
  #102  
MicVelo
350Z/370Z Tech Moderator
MY350Z.COM
 
MicVelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Northern California
Posts: 6,813
Thanked 1,890 Times in 1,377 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by dkmura View Post
In terms of horsepower and 0-60 times, current muscle cars have caught up to the R35. But in terms of overall performance, the GT-R and its ATTESA AWD system is still way ahead. it's real competition--the supercars of the world--are also hard pressed to meet the GT-Rs all-weather performance standard.

As for the Z, Nissan positioned both the Z33 and Z34 above the BRZ/FRS and MX-5, but below the Porsche Cayman, BMW Z4 M-coupe, etc. It's an interesting market segment, but the BRUTAL TRUTH is that there's just not many sales in it. Certainly nothing like the sales of CUVs, 1/2 ton trucks and mainstream sedans. The IDx would have been positioned below the Z and would have required a ton of R&D to make it right. Just look at sales of the new MX-5 Miata (a very nice car) and tell me Mazda isn't disappointed.
And we're back full circle to David's original post. Sad sad sad 3x0Z car, AKA Z35.

With much of American society going towards "sustainable", "sensible" transportation - or, as is here in the SF Bay Area, NO transportation.... meaning, "take the company bus to work" and when a car is needed for the weekend... ZipCar or Uber. Fehhhhhhh..... don't get me started on Uber.....

Given all that, how and what will Nissan do?

Nothing for now. As this thread seems to bear out, it will soon be a waiting game until Nissan pulls the plug on the Z34 and hiatus until the market "corrects" itself and the public once again WANTS to buy a performance two seater that doesn't start with a "P".

Still stand by my assessment it will have a hybrid drivetrain....

Why not, Tesla full electric P90D gets to 60 in way under 4 secs... don't see why a new Z35 couldn't advantage that type of tech and still run a "booster" boosted inline-4....
MicVelo is offline  
Old 01-24-2016, 01:11 PM
  #103  
singh
_______________
iTrader: (2)
 
singh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,355
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by dkmura View Post
Could Nissan launch a concept Z model in 2018 that leads to production by 2020? It's a long way off, but that's my best guess, what's yours?
There's really no telling which direction Nissan will go.

Nissan can simply stick the Q60 engine in the Z34 w/ slight modification to the chassis to furnish it as the Z35. Another possibility is the 2017 Nismo 370z will be the swan song, and Nissan will go into R&D until 2020 with a platform based on the current Q60.

Nonetheless, the current Z34 is recessed in a peculiar part of the market. When you think about it there currently isn't another car like the Z34 in it's price range. The pony cars are too heavy and bloated, the FRS and Miata are targeting a more "fun to drive" market, and the Golf R and STIs are for people who enjoy hopped up econoboxes.
singh is offline  
Old 01-24-2016, 01:30 PM
  #104  
SmoothZ
Senior Super Moderator
MY350Z.COM
iTrader: (13)
 
SmoothZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 28,570
Thanked 1,786 Times in 1,271 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by MicVelo View Post
Nothing for now. As this thread seems to bear out, it will soon be a waiting game until Nissan pulls the plug on the Z34 and hiatus until the market "corrects" itself and the public once again WANTS to buy a performance two seater that doesn't start with a "P".
What does that P mean? I'm lost.
SmoothZ is offline  
Old 01-24-2016, 04:11 PM
  #105  
silverbullet_Z
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MN
Posts: 3,772
Thanked 21 Times in 16 Posts
Default

Well the Super Bowl is coming up... Maybe Nissan will do a surprise commercial for a New concept Z like they did with the new Maxima
silverbullet_Z is offline  
Old 01-24-2016, 04:16 PM
  #106  
dkmura
General & DIY Moderator
MY350Z.COM
Thread Starter
iTrader: (62)
 
dkmura's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Aurora, Colorado
Posts: 6,669
Thanked 656 Times in 457 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by silverbullet_Z View Post
Well the Super Bowl is coming up... Maybe Nissan will do a surprise commercial for a New concept Z like they did with the new Maxima
Nope- Nissan has already announced it will not have any ads in the SB this year:

http://www.autonews.com/article/2016...er-bowl-50-ads
dkmura is offline  
Old 01-24-2016, 05:06 PM
  #107  
MicVelo
350Z/370Z Tech Moderator
MY350Z.COM
 
MicVelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Northern California
Posts: 6,813
Thanked 1,890 Times in 1,377 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by SmoothZ View Post
What does that P mean? I'm lost.
Porsche.

But then I realized/remembered that all of their cars have 4 seats... however token they may be. And they start at a much higher price point.

So..... Pontiac.
MicVelo is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to MicVelo For This Useful Post:
SmoothZ (01-24-2016)
Old 01-25-2016, 08:04 PM
  #108  
Toasterflyer
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NorthEast
Posts: 354
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Z33, z34, z35..

Originally Posted by singh View Post
There's really no telling which direction Nissan will go.

Nissan can simply stick the Q60 engine in the Z34 w/ slight modification to the chassis to furnish it as the Z35. Another possibility is the 2017 Nismo 370z will be the swan song, and Nissan will go into R&D until 2020 with a platform based on the current Q60.

Nonetheless, the current Z34 is recessed in a peculiar part of the market. When you think about it there currently isn't another car like the Z34 in it's price range. The pony cars are too heavy and bloated, the FRS and Miata are targeting a more "fun to drive" market, and the Golf R and STIs are for people who enjoy hopped up econoboxes.
Well the current Nismo is how much $$, not that they are selling much but at that price new..um doesn't really make sense way too much cash. In 2008 the Nismo, I guess wasn't all that bad considering what was available at the time.
The z's of the past were looking to compete with the corvette..and with the intro/development of the GT-R kinda left the Z to contend with the little guys and to a lesser extent the Boxter, and Cayman. Once again Nissan has lost its true origins of the Z... I would have liked to see Nissan upping hp while trimming weight. A 350hp-375hp Z and say 300lb less..would be great!
Nissan definitely needs something quick and sporty rwd at the $30-35k range. Spending almost 50k on a 2015 Nismo Z is um not realistic. And the next Z could have a few different power-plant options.. Certainly any hybrid combo that the new Z may or may not have will most definitely make the base price climb.. It would be nice to see Nissan making minimal profit/break even on the Z, keep it "cheap" and make up any "loss" with sales from the other models.. ..

Eh it will be interesting...watching 2014 Nismo prices though ...hope they drop like the 350Nismo prices did, I might consider one then.

R.

Last edited by Toasterflyer; 01-25-2016 at 08:07 PM.
Toasterflyer is offline  
Old 02-04-2016, 08:04 AM
  #109  
ninevoltz
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 110
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Default

I wish they would have discontinued the Z in 2009, and made the GT-R more affordable. If the GT-R had a real back seat and was more affordable, I could see them selling tons of them. I got the chance to drive an R35 around Michigan International Speedway last year in the "
". If I could afford the payment and insurance, I would buy one tomorrow. Sadly, that's not going to happen anytime soon, so I'll continue to upgrade and maintain my Z for as long as I can.

Last edited by ninevoltz; 02-04-2016 at 08:08 AM.
ninevoltz is offline  
Old 02-04-2016, 08:13 PM
  #110  
dkmura
General & DIY Moderator
MY350Z.COM
Thread Starter
iTrader: (62)
 
dkmura's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Aurora, Colorado
Posts: 6,669
Thanked 656 Times in 457 Posts
Default

More wishful thinking. The R35 was always intended to be Nissan's limited production supercar. The technology and performance of the GT-R was (and is) affordable for the market segment Nissan wanted to expand to.
dkmura is offline  
Old 02-05-2016, 12:49 PM
  #111  
TeamZleep
Registered User
 
TeamZleep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 88
Thanked 20 Times in 16 Posts
Default

I've started a two year plan to save up and buy a GTR in cash while retaining my Z33. Unless Nissan wow's me with a Z35, I'll pass and scoop up a used GTR.
TeamZleep is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 06:36 AM
  #112  
Juztin
Registered User
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Los Lunas, NM
Posts: 2,028
Thanked 26 Times in 20 Posts
Default

I'm definitely in the VR camp.

If they could offer the VR out of the GTR in the Z with a 50-60K price point, I would be all in and sell my current TT Z and get into that. I would love Nissan to enter the muscle car wars going on with a smarter lightweight, TT w/ a smaller engine entrant that could give the rest of the cars a run for their money.

If they packed in the base VR without any detuning, I would bet the Z could even slay a hellcat, the only exception I would see is the Z06 due to that cars weight and power being on its side.

But I would love that 'aftermarket' aspect of such a car where you have a bullet proof motor from factory with TT's, all you'd have to do is small mods to make power to slay even the Z06. A repeat of the Supra to a degree.

I don't think this approach would be a GTR killer as that platform has AWD, so that will always be the quintessential coveted Nissan flagship. But the current Z platform is versatile enough to go after the BRZ market with a NA variant, and compete with the big boys with a simple inclusion of the VR motor. If they wanted to 'detune' that offering to try to gap it more from the GTR I could understand that, but I would prefer to see the legit GTR motor offered in it's non-nismo state (600+HP) otherwise they would probably price the Z out of that performance market as it shouldn't cost the same as a current Z06 for them to win over other buyers. That would be a HELL of a step for Nissan to take; wish they would seriously offer this to the US market which is all about power.

I would prefer to keep the Z as simple as possible, the hybrid setup I think is going to just make the Z harder to work on and more expensive (granted not that the VR is a cheap motor either), plus probably stifle the mod market until they figure out ways to really do anything with it. They already got a hell of a potent motor, just include that for the crowd that can't stomach a 150K price tag, with say a 50-60K. I think that would perform very well financially for them, I could see that car being bought up in droves to the point it would be a dealer heaven with markup wars -_-...

I think there is a market to support a VR '380z'. I'd pre-order that sucker like I pre-orderd my '03 back when I could only afford the 26K base I'd love to keep my performance bug satiated by Nissan's Z's but they really need to step up in the power department and not with some 50hp electric motors, at least from my American point of view

Last edited by Juztin; 02-06-2016 at 06:45 AM.
Juztin is offline  
Old 04-06-2016, 11:32 AM
  #113  
Toasterflyer
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NorthEast
Posts: 354
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

The new Z,however they get there, needs 400hp @30k(base model). Otherwise sales will be less than the current 370z..

Time will tell though, hopefully Nissan will reveal something soon. The 2017 GTR is looking pretty good, even with the subtle changes.

Think a new Z could happen at $30k?

Last edited by Toasterflyer; 04-07-2016 at 08:45 AM. Reason: eh no reason
Toasterflyer is offline  
Old 04-06-2016, 05:53 PM
  #114  
Godzilla35
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SoCal
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

subbed to hopefully find out some new info soon... as I don't want to pull the trigger on a new daily and find out something is around the corner.

The VR theory could be cool but there would need to be a lot of development for a non-AWD and non-DCT system. I love my GTR, but that motor is complex and not the lightest... I want something rev happy and light out of the new gen Z... and I hope not too techno-overkill like most companies are doing. FRS + 150hp from a N/A v6 is fine (albeit I know this will come with more weight)...

I'm guessing the new infiniti tt v6 is going to be used in it though? anyone have any insider info.
Godzilla35 is offline  
Old 04-06-2016, 11:30 PM
  #115  
NiLL
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Orlando
Posts: 281
Thanked 27 Times in 17 Posts
Default

I think the main problem is performance for cost. Mustangs and camaros give you so much more for the same or less money. 42k for a nismo is silly over priced. and honestly the Nismo's need to go away and all the stuff in the nismo needs to be in the base or at least sport models.

I was just in the market for a Z and I was thinking about a new 370z. Then I saw the price of a 1 year old 10k mile one and it's 10k off the MSRP of new. There no way in hell I would buy new from nissan. The line has stagnated. There is nothing NEW on the newer cars to be worth not buying them used.

Just one buyers opinion on why I didn't buy the 370, I just like the 350z better. So I bought a nismo 350z. I would have paid up to 25k for one but I got lucky and found one for 19k with 14k miles on it.

The 370z interior looks like they added stuff just to shut magazines up about the 350z being sparse. The fuel gage, no more multi computer, a clock on the gauge pods, and now a radio you cant take out. It's just buttons everywhere and lights for no reason. It's supposed to be a drivers car.

I got a dealer to let me take a 2014 370z sport over night and I got to drive it quite a bit and it's not even that much more power than the HR, and after mods that gap narrows even more. The HR also sounds better (IMO). I am a Z fan, and the sort of customer they should be pandering to, and in 1 more year I will most likely be buying another one for the wife. The 370z just doesn't offer enough for its price in a car I find uglier.

I do get that this is all subjective.

Last edited by NiLL; 04-06-2016 at 11:33 PM.
NiLL is offline  
Old 04-07-2016, 05:58 AM
  #116  
MicVelo
350Z/370Z Tech Moderator
MY350Z.COM
 
MicVelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Northern California
Posts: 6,813
Thanked 1,890 Times in 1,377 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by NiLL View Post
Just one buyers opinion on why I didn't buy the 370, I just like the 350z better. So I bought a nismo 350z. I would have paid up to 25k for one but I got lucky and found one for 19k with 14k miles on it.

The 370z interior looks like they added stuff just to shut magazines up about the 350z being sparse. The fuel gage, no more multi computer, a clock on the gauge pods, and now a radio you cant take out. It's just buttons everywhere and lights for no reason. It's supposed to be a drivers car.

I got a dealer to let me take a 2014 370z sport over night and I got to drive it quite a bit and it's not even that much more power than the HR, and after mods that gap narrows even more. The HR also sounds better (IMO). I am a Z fan, and the sort of customer they should be pandering to, and in 1 more year I will most likely be buying another one for the wife. The 370z just doesn't offer enough for its price in a car I find uglier.

I do get that this is all subjective.
WARNING: The wind is long in this one, Obiwan. Read at your own risk of narcolepsy.

I get that people don't like the Z34 platform and everyone is entitled to.... but coming from someone who has owned both Z33, Z34 and at least one of every gen before that, I will say that I totally loved my Z34N - which I must explain is now in the hands of my daughter - lest someone wags a finger at me and says in best whiney, "Why don't you still own it then, Mic? Hunh? Hunh?" Laff...

From a "stuffed into the cabin" perspective, sure, there's a few more things in it from a 350Z and if you have Nav, it's a little cumbersome but not much more than what I had in my '08 and in true Z form, it is functional and easy to figure out/use.

Been in a BMW or Mercedes lately? For the life of me, I cannot - and will not - spend the time to figure out all the gadgets and gizmos in them. I drove my SIL's Benz recently to dinner and refused to drive it home after..... hated hated hated the car doing all that thinking warning yelling at me and with all the counter-intuitive controls.

Maybe I'm a simpleton but I prefer to do the thinking behind the wheel, not letting my car tell me what to do..... "Warning Warning you're too f'n close to that trash can, idjit!" Psh. Might as well say "Danger danger Will Robinson, danger!"

But moreso, from an engineering standpoint, the Z34 is wrought with tons of significant improvements to the chassis and all of it's componentry; using aluminum and composites where it was all steel in the previous gen Zs - incl. Z33 - which has resulted in a stronger, less flexible, and more nimble platform but with a net weight reduction of some 100lbs as compared to Z33. So what's not to like about that?

I'm thinkin' about how I look after working out and taking off a few pounds then slipping into my Armani suit....

And yes, the VQ37VHR engine is a fairly significant step up in technology as well (VVEL is a really interesting set up), despite people saying it's not powerful enough. The point here is that it's NOT supposed to be that 400bhp wundermotor. It's still the corporate V6 engine. And it does that job quite respectably with 332/350 ponies to motivate the current Z/G gen. Most people can't handle that anyways so it's irrelevant that they're not offering a 500hp "bragging rights" offering like so many mfgrs these days.

Am I defending the Z34? Yep, you bet.

Would I like to see it go away and be replaced by something arguably "better"? Yep, you bet.

But not because the 370Z is bad, but it's run its course in the face of all that is new and now technologically possible.

Getting back to the original premise of this thread though, it isn't as much about the car/technology that will supersede the Z34 as it is about the market segment that the Z occupies. It's NOT a growth segment.... quite the opposite actually. It's shrinking.

Look at the other cars in the segment and look a their sales stagnation. There was talk that the FR-S/BRZ Toyobaru twins wouldn't make it past Gen 1. The Hyundai Genesis Coupe is being relatively given away these days and even the venerable sports car people over at Porsche are "pandering to" (to steal your phrase NiLL, heh heh) the people buying Macans, Cayennes and other brutish truck-cars.

Last edited by MicVelo; 04-07-2016 at 06:10 AM.
MicVelo is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to MicVelo For This Useful Post:
dkmura (04-07-2016)
Old 04-07-2016, 08:57 AM
  #117  
Toasterflyer
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NorthEast
Posts: 354
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I never really like the Z34, interior or exterior ug. Why on earth Nissan decided hop on the "retro" train like the US car companies is beyond me. Nissan failed to understand that Dodge, Chevy etc NEEDED to do something with their cars to bring sales back as well as to recover from their bailouts. Nissan didn't need to retroize the Z car but I guess they thought a retro design would increase sales. I get improving making subtle changes etc throughout the years, but a whole new car?

Now, I'll take the Z34 engine, and tranny in my Nismo Z33 as well as the push to start .
Toasterflyer is offline  
Old 04-07-2016, 09:30 AM
  #118  
Firebase99
Registered User
 
Firebase99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: FL
Posts: 1,135
Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Its why I got rid of my Z34 10 months into it. It was too expensive for too little. Sure it was quick enough I suppose but WAY WAY overpriced for cloth and a radio and THATS IT.
Firebase99 is offline  
Old 04-07-2016, 12:17 PM
  #119  
NiLL
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Orlando
Posts: 281
Thanked 27 Times in 17 Posts
Default

There is no denying the 370z out of the box is better then the 350z. It's faster in a straight line for sure, but I'm not so sure about corners Vs my nismo at least.

The problem is when you start modding it. The gap shrinks down to driver mod almost every time. I get that isn't for everyone, and in that case sure the 370 is a better buy. Just value wise I don't see it. On top of that you have an extreme devaluation once you buy it, and that's to be expected, but when 370z nismos can be had with ~50k miles for 24-27k and 350z nismos are holding the same? that's kinnda an issue as well.
NiLL is offline  
Old 04-08-2016, 01:48 PM
  #120  
Toasterflyer
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NorthEast
Posts: 354
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

The next z should have the 3.8 GTR motor, less one turbo and 375-400hp. Let the new GTR have some wacky turboed hybrid combo. Who knows what Nissan is planning for the new Z just wish is wasn't such a secret..ha.
Toasterflyer is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: The Brutal Truth about the Z35


Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: