This place is a great Thread. Thanks Jason. I have a question for you. I have a 2004 350z (not lowered). I have 20x8 front and 20x10 rear. attached are my current reading

https://my350z.com/forum/members/776...468-align.html


Current rear reading -1.9. The tech said i need a camber kit to get to -1. What do you think? Do i need a toe bolt too? Much preciated

Tim

 

Your wheels alone are the equivalent to lowering your car an inch...in that it forces your control arms to point UP....

If everything on your car is stock, then from your readings i would suspect your compression rod bushing to be torn....

- get one front of the car on jacks and get a flash light on the compression rod bushing, youll probably see tears.

looking at your readings
FRONT:
Camber LH -1.3 RH -.08
- Thats a difference of .5 degrees from L to R..thats not good...this should be matching.

I believe thats due to your CASTER being so far off, thus my speculation of your torn oem compression arm bushings, your caster is:

Front Caster:
LH 7.8 and RH 8.4 thats a difference of .6 degrees...IMHO anything over .5 is bad, very..and i always want matching! nissan says .75 difference is okay and i find that nuts!

mind you, everything is in the green, as in, all of this is in specs, but that doesnt mean its right...the specs are there as limits, but not limits from each other..........review the specs on post #3: https://my350z.com/forum/8293388-post3.html


now to your question - REAR:

Due to your wide wheels and 20" large rims, your rear camber is in spec, and very close, LH -1.9 and RH -1.8, so that's acceptable that they are only .1 degrees in difference, thats what you want....matching or very little off...

so your rear is near matching but in spec, BUT high in the spec......if your only daily driving, i would aim for more -1.3 to save tires.....

I would recommend a rear camber arm over buying the rear toe bolt and elongating the doctors pill anyday for someone thats just a daily driver......those toe bolts suck and im sure you read about them in this thread....

i would get a rear camber arm and bring it down to -1.3 or so matching L to R...

front, i would replace the bushings up front i mention, the SPL compression rod and inspect the others.. read about those on page 1 of this thread too..

-J

 

Jason
great info.

Where do you recommend to get the bushing and the camper kit. I am not doing any racing just want to keep tire some life.

 

The spl compression rod bushing you can get from SPL or call vendors and see who has it in stock....i highly recommend callling cause then you will be waiting...

For camber arm, spc black one is more than fine...

re-read this thread and while your doing work down there, decide if any others you want to take care of at the same time..

-J

 

Thanks Jason. Front end. I put it up on the lift to check all the bushing. They are in good shape (no ware and tear). Only 40 k mile on the vehicle. We use a long bar to push on the bushing and they was stiff. Any other recommendation to what to look for? I guess i have to keep an eye on the tire wear and let you know. Driving down the road, the car drove straight. Camber and caster are not adjustable(ouch).

Rear. I will get the camber kit you recommended and get it align to -1.3. will keep an eye on the wear too.

Thank Tim

 

Front end i would probably still recommend the SPL front compression arm bushings...something is causing your caster and camber differences and like you said front camber and caster isnt adjustable so your bushings are your only things up front that will have some "GIVE" in them to form/conform to an unwanted position, etc....

while your there, i would say do the translink inner bushing at least with whiteline....from there, you can call the front good...so long as your always in spec with alignment. from there front upper arms (kinetix are only $239) would be your next investment.

-J

 

This is not correct

Please explain the logic behind a taller wheel (assuming he's not running a lower aspect ratio tire with his 20 inch rims) affecting the compression of your suspension and thus causing the compression rod to point up or for that matter how a taller wheel will affect camber.


Again, if this was correct, I could theoretically adjust my camber by changing my tires from say a 285/30/19 to a 285/45/19. Wheel height should have absolutely no effect upon the previously adjusted geometry of the suspension. Yes, it can have an effect on ride height, but not due to the compression of the suspension like say a spring or coilover will, but merely due to the change in distance between the center of the wheel (hub) and the ground.

 

SLA suspension dude....

This is no Macpherson strut...even the nissan service manual has different specs for different wheel sizes, oem 17 or 18. one thing i failed to mention was yes, you can get tire size to have the same overall diameter to a stock 18, but usually the 20inch rim also comes wider.......which aids in pointing the compression arm upwards.....

the compression arm is attached in stock form with an oem rubber bushing, any alteration to suspension geometry results in the rubber being pulled to a new spot, then tearing then cracked with gaps like the pictures I have shown in the bushing replacement diy.

note, it doesnt comrpess the suspenion, or compress the spring as if someone was sitting on the hood, but points the compression arm up...different...
-J

 

The nissan service manual might certainly have different specs for different size tires, but your circumnavigating the question. There can be a 100 different reasons why nissan chooses a different alignment for a different tire, just as you might find you need more or less camber with a different tire or different alignment specs altogether to achieve a balance between grip,wear, and tire temperature distribution.

What I am attempting to convey is that you are not altering the suspension geometry by changing out to a different height tire simply because there are only two way to alter the suspension geometry and angles such as camber:
1. Physically readjust the locations of mounting points or lengths of control arms (ex. an alignment)
2. Change the compression of the suspension either by altering the vehicles overall weight, alter its weight distribution, or alter the length of the spring via aftermarket springs or coils.

To say that the compression arm will be pointed "different" but the suspension doesn't compress (or expand for that matter) is to assume that the compression rod is not attached to the suspension. The compression rod is attached to the lower spindle and anything that affects the movement of the spindle (compress or expand the suspension) will also affect the angle of the compression arm. Since the two are firmly attached the opposite is also true, so if "it doesnt comrpess the suspenion " there is no way the compression rod will point "different". To say otherwise is simply misinformation

 

Jason
Front end, I will do that and let you know how it go.

For the rear end, with the camber kit and getting the camber to -1.3. what is the nominal toe number?

Thanks tim

 

3. Alter rake.

 

Jason,

Don't mean to bug you but you never addressed my post that I included below. Thanks again for your contributions.

 

Hey man, sorry........didnt mean to ignore, I have been super busy lately.....moved cities and new job, house being built, etc..etc.. I see I have a few responses to reply too still.........lol...

I usually wait till i see about 2 or 3 email notifications on this subscribed thread of mine before i come in and answer, but just been too busy lately...

dude, this is much much better.....

FRONT:
as you can see your front camber is out of spec with it being:
LH -1.5
and
RH -1.6
Compared to stock being -1.33, but I think that is completely fine! leave it there...the difference between them being .1 is fine too....ie, (1.5) - (1.6) = |.1| difference. 0.1 isnt a high difference at all..thats good.

to get your camber into oem specs with the SPL upper arms your gonna need to:
1. add one more shim. skinny one, see my spl DIY install thread on making some.
or
2. remove the arms and turn the rod ends a half turn (180degrees) both of them so that nothing else changes...be sure you don't spin one more than the other cause then your now adjusting caster...

From there, your caster difference is 0.3 .....8.6-8.3=|.3|
so thats not too bad at all......in spec, on the high end, but i would say your golden..

REAR:
Your rear camber is in spec, but high on the spec range at -2.0...the difference between L to R is 0 zero, as both are 2.0-2.0=|0|

That's then up to you, i prefer about -1.5 in rear myself....

F/R toe is all in spec...

-J

 

nvm

 

I have a 03 350z and I need the camber/toe kit. point me in the direction of a decent kit to look for, plus pros and cons of the kit. how easy are these to do yourself?

 

https://my350z.com/forum/brakes-and-...amber-kit.html

https://my350z.com/forum/brakes-and-...ion-101-a.html

 

Easy to install.

SPC F/R
If you wanna be ballin SPL F/R

 

well, actually the "tire"s are the same, just the size changes, same brand, same everything, so grip, wear, tire temp, etc isnt the issue, the issue is the alignment is different due to the size and it correlates to the suspension squatting (physically moving) to where the rear toe changes.....the toe on the Z is soo soo small of a range it needs to be changed....ie, 18s are .043 to .106 that's a tiny range of .063 between the two...


your item 1 happens, because the different height, wider stance, lower offset wheel/tire does item 2 to the car.

the change pitches the arm in how larger wheels, wider stance with offset, etc play apart in the weight distribution of the car to where the toe changes, camber slightly moves, etc....its not hanging a different size tire on a wall, the parts move...the spring will compress im guessing a bit and i should have said that more, but the double lower ball joints and the weak stretching rubber bushing at the compression arm all play a part in its movement.....in the end the toe range is so minimal that changing wheels/tires make an affect.

Ive seen people buy 20 inch rims with the correct tire size to get the same exact "diameter" as a stock oem 18 inch wheel and tire and that wouldn't change anything...................but your only talking "diameter"....not stock 8 inch width and stock +33 offset or whatever it is.

9 out of 10 people buying 20 inch rims go with crazy low (2) offset and (3) super wide rim, which does item 2 due to item 1 of your points above.

yes, all would be the same if a person bought a 20 inch rim with matching stock 8 inch width and same offset as an oem stock rim and put the correct aspect low profile tire to match the stock profile 18 tire height/diameter.

Maybe im not the best communicator to convey my answers or my choice of words are wrong......if that doesnt help then go with your gut.....

I have 18 wheels for my car (due to drifting) and i have an NTB 5 year alignment package...........I have mounted and aligned soo many damm times ive seen the changes between the different range of wheels i own and the affect it has on the car/alignment/squat due to those wheel differences......

-J

 

sorry man, i missed your question............i have been kinda absent from my350z lately with moving cities, different job, home buying, etc.........

currently im away on company trip in Florida so i haven't had much time lately..

-J

 

First of all GREAT WRITE UP! I just got through reading all of this and making Trip after trip to the garage to look at my Z. Ive bought the BC Racing coilovers, after reading this I wish I would have bought "True" Coilovers. Ive got what Ive got now, So heres my question to anyone. I bought the Eibachs Black ones with the Toe bolt. Is the toe bolt as good as the SPL one? I was going to make a lock out type for the read camber bolt and use the one with the eibachs on the toe/spring bucket. OR Should I just get the SPL one?

My next question is Since I already have the BC Racing coilovers could I convert them to "True" Coilovers? It looks simple enough. Just needs some extra parts and BAM!

Last, whats the length of the bolts I would need for the lock out bolts? I figured I would just measure the width on the square washer. I guess I could measure the bolt, but should I make it longer? For future things?

Thanks In Advance!