Originally Posted by ToastZ

Lots of debate on this one and a few analogies that kind of fit (and I admit mine was probably the worst one, lol).

I have a good friend that is a lawyer,... specializes in IP protection, patent law, copyrights, blah, blah, blah

After my 15 minute explanation of what an EMS is, the several different types, what is a "tune" and the function of a "tuner",.. his simple words were:

"go look into the definition of a trade secret"

There are three factors that typically are common to all such definitions of a trade secret, that being:

1. Is not generally known to the public; Yes
2. Confers some sort of economic benefit on its holder, where this benefit must derive specifically from its not being generally known, not just from the value of the information itself; Tuning all follow the same principle so there is no secret
3. Is the subject of reasonable efforts to maintain its secrecy;[COLOR="red"]What secret again?[/COLOR]

I personally believe the act of "tuning a car" to "extract a higher level of performance" vs. "a competitor tuner",... fits the definition of a trade secret perfectly, therefore the need to protect it in the marketplace.

Basically, tunes are trade secrets because tuners & shop owners compete in the marketplace against each other and do not want to compete against private parties as well. In order to sustain an economic benefit, tunes are therefore to be protected if any economic benefit will ultimately be derived.

Basically, it doesn't really matter as already stated so many times I cannot believe I'm typing it again. No way would I ever try to tune my car, that's what I pay a good tuner to do, lol.

Originally Posted by athenG

Every consultant I have met have their own little secret to make thier system run better or efficient, that is why we hire them, we hire them for that knowledge.

Originally Posted by ToastZ

With all this knowledge and vinegar, then you must certainly tune your own car, yes ? Excellent for you and congratulations for mastering such an easy art as you would make it seem to be,.. after all, starting your own shop, buying your dyno, hiring your own techs,... you know, easy stuff.

Originally Posted by ToastZ

Yes, just like KFC.

Originally Posted by athenG

The Tuner didn't even the law of tuning.

Originally Posted by athenG

Let us make this simple. Let say I have MRC tune my car, then I moved down south close to Sharif, now if all EMS are locked then I will have to pay for a Full tune if I want Sharif to do some minor adjustment. What Secret does MRC that Sharif doenst already know? I'm pretty sure both of their tunes are 90% close to each other, one maybe a little aggressive with the tune than the other but the principle is all the same... Hence there is no big secret.

Originally Posted by athenG

No because KFC has its own secret that they created or invented. A better analogy for your KFC sauce is the Code that is written in the EMS (Now that is the secret_. The Tuner didn't even the law of tuning. Read some books in tuning and you'll see that Tuner all follow the same principle so there is no Big Secret, they have their own preference coz you can achieve the same result in 2-3 diffirent ways but the end result is going to be the same because the principle is the same.

Originally Posted by ToastZ

Yes.

Originally Posted by doug

if all tuners followed the same principles.. then we would all have perfect tunes.. obviously its not hte same because there are only a handfull of tuners that know how to tune properly.. alot of tuners arn't going to road tune your car for hours with headphones.. some will get you a decent dyno A/F and call it a day.. and as soon as you run it hard for a couple of months.. boom something blows

Originally Posted by doug

if all tuners followed the same principles.. then we would all have perfect tunes.. obviously its not hte same because there are only a handfull of tuners that know how to tune properly.. alot of tuners arn't going to road tune your car for hours with headphones.. some will get you a decent dyno A/F and call it a day.. and as soon as you run it hard for a couple of months.. boom something blows

Originally Posted by athenG

HHMM I'm pretty sure Sharif, Julian or even GTM had blown motor so what is their secret sauce here? Motor blows so that is the game we play...

Originally Posted by athenG

Motor blows so that is the game we play...

Originally Posted by doug

some people blow more motors than often..

Originally Posted by athenG

So what is the real secret ToastZ is saying?

Originally Posted by ToastZ

Yes, motors will let go. That is the game we play. And, its expensive.

You all in, or just a spectator ?

Originally Posted by athenG

Have you ever looked at a Utec Map? Trust me there is nothing special and you'll probably see 1-2 deg difference with other Shops Map. at 8 psi every map I have seen have around 11-13 deg of timing at around peak TQ. So the secret here is that one shop ran 11 deg and the other ran 13 deg? wow that is a big secret... but wait, maybe the other shop ran 13 deg because he added more fuel hence having the same effect or maybe the owner wanted more power so the tuner tuned it more aggressively Trust me there is no top secrete there.

Originally Posted by ToastZ

Trust, my friend. Trust is the secret.

If you do not trust the person working on your car, tuning your car, taking your funds,... then stop. Don't post hate. Trust wins in the end. Pick a path, stick to it, don't let up.

Easy stuff, just like grade school. Except way more expensive.

Originally Posted by Tyler4

I may be totally off base here but I'll go ahead and give my 2 cents. In my opinion a major reason the EMS's are locked is to protect the tune.

For example, Joe Blow goes and gets his car tuned by Sharif. He drives it for a while and everything is great, then one day he decides he is smart enough to tune his car and dives into the tune himself to add some timing or whatever...well then car blows and needless to say Joe Blow is pissed. He goes back to Sharif, blames him and demands for FP to pay for his toasted motor. Then gets on the boards and goes to town on FP. Now we all know that negative pub on the boards can hurt a shop rep.

Now I know some people are responsible/smart enough to "tweak" their car on their own but that's a hard line to draw for a tuner. He cant just lock some and unlock others or else the customer who's EMS's are locked will obviously complain. This can be solved by a discussion with the tuner before hand so both parties know what to expect.

I myself have NO problem with my tune being locked with my Haltech. For one, Sharif is two hours away and i like to bug him , and for two the Haltech map can be tweaked by Sharif on his computer and sent back to me. Anyways, there is my opinion.

Originally Posted by athenG

As a matter of fact, you buy the engine and you can do what ever you want with it