zland

Steve, we all want accurate info of course but I want to step back and look at the bigger picture which is I appreciate you being on the site everyday. To me, it says a lot about Vortecs customer service.

zimbo

iTrader: (4)

I'm with zland. Having a manufacturer representative with the willingness to post is a great thing. I think it's fair to ask Steve pointed questions but seems like some of you are being a bit quick to call BS.

--Steve

jesseenglish

He wants to sell something. The real test is will he be here after the sale. I appreciate your willingness to answer questions. I'd just like to see them answered straightforward.

I have nothing to gain here by asking these questions. I've already got an SC. I'm doing it for others so they can have the correct information.

jesseenglish

Ag Z,

Sometimes yes I do, but I understand not everone knows the inner workings of a forced induction system.

Forced,

I've been going through the various installation manuals and have not an installation similar to ours.... a returnless fuel system car with which you have no ECU control.

So, I've been thinking about your setup. You say it isn't an electronic FMU. So here's my thoughts on how this might work.

The inline fuel pump pressurizes the fuel line to the maximum fuel pressure the Vortech system would need. At this point a ratio based FMU would work if it worked the exact opposite as how an FMU normally works. Meaning at 0 PSI boost, it restricts the fuel pressure to stock. At Max boost, it opens completely up to allow max fuel pressure.

This seems like a roundabout way to do things, but it's the only way I can see a mechanical FMU working. When you get a copy of the manual, please clue us all in.

Forced

I will.

jesseenglish

Forced, I'd like to apologize for my attitude, I was just getting frustrated. I reread my posts and realized I came off like a d!ck. Just give us the info and we'll all be happy.

Ag Z

Thanks Steve, don't mean to about this, but Fuel and timing are the two things you have going for you over an ATI setup on the 350Z. Just trying to understand how it's works.

hcracerx

The Vortech 350Z FMU setup (from what I understand) is very similar to the one Paxton has had great success with in their Viper system. Highly effective and zero problems. The only difference is that the Viper system uses 2 inline pumps...because its a 10 cylinder car with a returnless setup (so it requires specific flow rates that one pump can't provide maybe - I'm assuming) Plus, the install manual to the Viper system is available right now on the Paxton website with diagrams in the downloads section. Here is a link:

http://www.paxtonauto.com/downloads/

I figured that could help you guys out a little. It kinda cleared things up for me.

MSGarrett1

I'm confused here. Are we confusing pressures in the air intake/combustion chamber with pressures inside the fuel lines?


Bottom line . . . I don't see how higher flow injectors can hurt, but then again I'm not sure they're needed either . . . at least not for these systems running 7-8 psi of boost.

I agree with jesseenglish . . . the key components that will differentiate aftermarket turbo/supercharger systems will be in the tuning/timing and fuel management arena. The manufacturer that does this part of it best, will produce the best/safest/most reliable product. Answers will ultimately be forthcoming. It's only a matter of time.

zland

I want answers and I hope Steve will provide tham all to use to our satisfaction as soon as he is able to document them through manual pics and diagrams.

Lets try to keep this in perspective though. ATI has never in my experience on this board in over 1 year, answered a single specific question regarding fuel management or any other topic. All we get is their webpage bragging about how wonderful they are for using an IC and producing hp. Finally this week, we got a PR type letter claiming nothing is their fault and blamed installers for problems.

Steve of Vortec is attempting to give us information. I am not sure if he is an engineer or salesman. I am sure not every person at Vortec knows every detail of a product, especially if it has not been released yet.

I would be directing more frustration towards ATI if I owned one and was having proplems with it on my car then be aggressive towards someone that is trying to work with us.

Guys, I see what you are saying in that you have not gotten the direct answer yet to your question. Lets give him a week until he can come up with a complete answer.

Are any of you in the process of ordering it this week? If not, giving him a couple of days will be ok won't it? Again, I have been waiting for ATI to address us for months after releasing their product but they have not.

Jeff - zland

hcracerx

Hey zland,

Vortec is the Chevy/GM motors that are in the '96+ trucks. Vortech is the supercharger manufacturer. Just bustin' your chops man...

Ag Z

MSGarrett1

Thanks for that link, the pump and FPR are parallel, now I can see that, never thougth of it, but like that idea, could have used it before on my car vice dual intake setup.

No I am speaking of how much pressure an injector should be able to handle before it is locked open/closed. I don't think the stock injectors will see more than twice the boost increase in the FP. So if they are rated at 43.5 then 7psi x2 would be right around 58 psi and GM uses that as the the new standard on their injectors.

Forced

zland:
I am not an engineer, but I did take a bunch of electronic engineering classes before I switched to Marketing. I try not to be too much of a salesperson, just a marketer!

zland

Heck, you burst my bubble, I guess I am not perfect? I'll let my mother know, ok.

MSGarrett1

Ah, yes, but there is a difference between what pressure the fuel injectors can safely handle, and how much fuel they will actually flow at that pressure. Although the vette LS1 may use 58 psi injectors, that doesn't mean that our 350Z injectors will flow the same volume/time fuel at 58 psi, assuming the Nissan injectors tolerate that pressure.

Ag Z

What is the stock FP on the Z? 43.5 like most cars? GM went higher to get a finer mist to clean up low rpm emissions.

To keep on subject, Forced what is the ratio of the new FMU setup?

Forced

Looks like it will be an 8:1.

jesseenglish

hcracerx, thanks so much for the link. It's a very ingenius setup. I don't know why I didn't think of it before.


Forced, I'd like to offer my humblest apologies. If the Vortech setup is similar to the Paxton setup then it looks like a mechanical FMU will work just fine. The only real question I have now is, how do you control the voltage on the fuel pump. Since your FMU ratio is based on the pump putting out a certain fuel pressure. How do you ensure that the voltage is consistent. I'm assuming a voltage regulator of some sort, but now I'm just wondering to satisfy my own curiousity.

QuartZ

Oh well...no PM for me. Hehe, it's cool.
Now please don't be camera shy, bring on those vids!

Glad to hear that the BOV will sound the same as on a turbo. That's one of my favorite parts of FI.

-Dana

zland

I just read this post on superchargersonline.com They carry both ATI and Vortech thus I dont think they have anything to gain by doing this post. This post was made by ATI themselves (or so the post claim). ATI is accusing Vortech of being dishonest. Either Vortech or ATI has some explaining to do. I feel both of you do!

Here is the post by ATI:

A member named "HCRACERX" is currently posting false information on this site and other sites, while posing as a typical member. What HCRACERX fails to mention is that he is currently employed by Vortech Engineering LLC.

HCRACERX, is a Vortech Sales Rep. named Brian Ellis, He can be reached by calling Vortech at @ (805) 247-0226 x 236, or by email: bellis@vortechsuperchargers.com

Unfortunately, this is not the first time that Vortech employees and associates have spread false information online.

We have noticed that as our leading competitor has been getting closer to coming to market with their kit, we have been receiving more and more rumors of blown motors. The truth wins in the long term; please bear with us until Vortech?s product rollout is complete and there are accurate comparisons between their product and ours available.

We will leave it at that for now. Thanks for your time and consideration.

ATI


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