jesseenglish

the proof is here.

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....848#post535848

Forced

Brian is a sales rep here. His user name is hcracerx and he has two posts. One was to clarify the vortec/vortech and the other was to say that the fueling setup is like the Paxton Viper setup. How is this false and misleading. He posted that up after everyone was beating me up and wanted to help clear the issue.

zland

Forced:

Read the link Jesse posted above, I think this is the post in question. We want information if it is accurate. Trust me, I am in the market for a SC so I want to know the facts, all the facts as long as I know they are factual and verifiable.

There seems to be 2 issues:

1. Is the information in that thread accurate and if so, can it be verified?
2. Should an employee of another company be making accusations without identifying themselves?

Jeff - zland

jesseenglish

He was misleading in his posts. He claims he thinks it's the same and he's the one that originally suggested there were 11 blown ATI motors.

People here on this board hear something like that and they take is as fact. When in fact he is a salesman for a competing company. You don't see how there's a bit of a conflict of interest there?

zland

I am an upfront kind of person. I personally called Steve at Vortec and told him of the post by ATI and suggested he read it and reply. I left a message with his co -worker, Brian Ellis who does in fact work for Vortech but was not there when I called. That is when I called Steve. I believe everyone should have the opportunity to defend what they are being accused of.

On a side note, if you go to the original post by ATI on superchargersonline.com you will find a letter from me directed specifically at ATI and to address the issues of concern with all of us (concerned consumers and ATI owners). ATI chose to ignore my post yet posted the statement regarding Vortech.

Here is the link to that thread:

http://www.superchargersonline.com/f...?TOPIC_ID=1903

Notice ATI is questioning the post regarding blown motors by Vortech but not the post I made regarding the 3 motors. So, at this point, I know of 3 blown motors. Brian at Vortech says he heard of 12 at the Sema show. I wonder if the 12 is accurate. I know of the 3 for sure.

Like I said, I think some explaining by both compaines is needed.

Jeff - zland

Forced

zland:
I will not comment on any competitors issues. I never have on this board and will continue to talk about only our systems. I tell our employees not to try to hide the fact that they work here. We all are registered in multilple forums and use the same username so its not hard to figure out who someone might be (except forced is taken on superchargersonline.com, so I had to pick forced01, damn!).

Forced

OK, I just read what he wrote on the other post. I don't know what to say about that. Unbelievable.

zland

Steve:

Wise choice not to publically comment on their product. As a consumer, trust me, if something is not right, I (as a consumer) will not hesitate to address it with you or them or any other vendor.

Actually, I appreciated the information if 12 motors were blown that we know about it but i do feel that when those kind of serious type accusations are made, especially from a competitor, the person should identify themselves and since Brian is in the industry, he needs to have a higher standard of proof and ethics than your typical poster on line.

There are a number of people that post misinformation on line. Being an employee of a company requires them to hold themselves to a higher standard.

Now, back to the other issue. Since this is in the open, Brian needs to defend his statement (not you, him) regarding the blown motors. Is it fact, what type of verification does he have? Now that he said it, he needs to say exactly how accurate his statement is. If it is rumor or 2nd hand or even 3rd hand information, then just say so.

I hope you do not see this as being anti any company, be it Vortech or ATI. We all just want as accurate information as possible. To many of us, all of this matters (designing a good product, backing what you sell, service, and honesty).

Opps, one more thing. ATI, you never answered my open question I posted to you on superchargersonline.com. I know you read these posts now so dont hide. You got some ATI owners that are not satisfied with your product. Read the threads just on my350z.com. Some have blown up motors, others are affraid to run their car over 5000 rpm, that is no way to own a new SC! Again, everything has problems once in a while, your problems need to be addressed by you. Try contacting your unhappy customers. If you need a list, I can make one up. I think that doing so will earn a lot of respect from all of us rather them form letters to the general public. The moment you begin addressing these issues is when I will publically give you credit for doing so. When a guy here buys a product, we all watch to see how it performs and what type of serice he recieves. The service issue in your situation is bring up concern.

I teach high school kids all day long. I expect them to have to be corrected by adults. Guys, I dont appreciate us, the consumers having to teach you guys how to treat customers.

Jeff - zland

jesseenglish

Not discussing other companies issues is a good method of operation especially when it can appear you're trying to be deceptive. This should probably be reiterated to Brian.

Believe it or not, even though I have an ATI system, I am not anti Vortech. If the Vortech system is a better setup than the ATI, I have no shame, I'll switch over. Especially if ATI continues to ignore the issues and not respond to people's concerns.

The fact that they've been completely silent publicly on the matter is a bit unnerving.

jesseenglish

Jeff, clean out your PM box. Don't know if you know, but sent messages and tracking items count towards the total PM's allowable, not just the inbox.

Forced

...and I thought I had everything going good on this board. I have put a lot of time in this forum. I even post at night and on the weekends from home. I hope you all understand that I am not trying to mislead any of you, I just want to get the facts on our system out for all to see. Then you can make the choice on what F/I, if any, you will run.

zland

Steve, that is why I said Brian needs to address this issue himself.

In my mind, you have done an outstanding job with us and every post you have made I have apprecited and still do. Keep up the good work. Vortech will not be judged by this situation alone. I think everyone here is mature enough to distingush between a misguided post by an employee and a company that will provide a quality product, performance, and service.

You did your part, if Brian made an error (we all do), just admitting it will be a great thing to do and then lets get back to the issue of superchargers!

Jeff - zland

jesseenglish

You're fine Steve, I don't think anyone here blames you. Just continue to keep us informed and it will go a long way towards happy future customers. We're an impatient bunch who craves information.

One thing about this board if you haven't noticed. Most of us don't take any claims at face value, we need backup documentation, hence the issues with the Mustang Dyno numbers. Anything that looks strange or fishy will immediately be pointed out by a large number of members here, so just keep it honest and if you don't know something, that's fine we can't fault you for that.

Jesse

zland

Jesse, my pm's are erased, try again, Jeff

Forced

I don't think you will be hearing from Brian. I am, in a way, his superior. So, I think the best thing to do is make sure he doesn't cause me any further heartburn on this board. He may do it on his own time from home, but not while he is at his job here.

MSGarrett1

I don't know. But it stands to reason that since an FMU is necessary to raise the fuel pressure to a ratio greater than 1:1 to compensate for fuel injectors that have reached 100% of their duty cycle, that LARGER injectors would allow for a lower delta fuel pressure (difference between injector inlet at the rail and injector outlet at the runner), which to me means greater reliability, less chance of fuel pump failure or fuel leaks with years of use, but most importantly greater TUNABILITY.

If you don't have to generate as large a fuel pressure to ensure no lean A/F mixture at higher RPMs, then you can run a less rich mixture through the mid-range RPMs, but still not run lean at the higher RPMs. If you keep the stock injectors, then it seems to me you MUST generate a larger delta fuel pressure to overcome the smaller injectors to prevent a lean A/F mix at the higher RPMs. Then, by neccesity you WILL have a very rich mix at the mid-range RPMs. You can overcome this slightly by retarding the ignition timing at the higher RPMs (especially over 6000 RPM), but you might be able to run less timing retard and less delta fuel pressure with LARGER fuel injectors.

As for the whole ATI vs. Vortech issue, who cares if 3 motors or 12 motors were blown. The fact is . . . there IS an issue with the fuel management/ignition timing with the Procharger kit. Some owners have clearly not run into significant problems yet (Dr. Bonz seems to be happy with his kit), but some clearly have. I'm not convinced that those who have had trouble are isolated cases of rogue tuners trying to obtain greater than designed levels of boost. I think that there is a design flaw with the ATI kit's fuel management/ignition timing. With Vortech, at least I can say that there reps have been active in these forums and as far as I can see . . . honest and forthcoming with the knowledge that they have. My hats off to Vortech. I have no doubts regarding the quality of their centrifugal superchargers, air-to-air intercoolers or other components. I do however, wonder if we have discovered the best method of fuel management for FI for our VQ35s.

CaLiFoRnIaZ

so steve...............whats the deal?

CaLiFoRnIaZ

True to that for sure, that is the problem. The one who makes it fool proof is a millionare.

Forced

CaliforniaZ:
The deal with what?

jcv

I'm not truly in the middle of this debate. I would offer the comment that when hcracerx (brian) first posted about the FI issues I checked his profile. It clearly stated he worked for Vortech so I don't think he hid too much if someone took time to check.