^^

 

There has been no attempt to withhold info on this thread. There is no conspiracy against Intense/Powerlab. I have tried to contact Powerlab but noone answers the phone when called. They have not tried to contact me through this forum. If information has been omitted, I have responded quickly to the questions from the thread. Intense/supporters continue to speak of semantics but utilizes the same tactics to defend their produce. Once again, You expect me to openly believe your results without questions with only one dyno on a car running race gas and higher than normal boost pressures that even Intense, now admits in private conversation to another customer, does not recommend. Finally, we will hear from IP about the data, dynos, testing and all other findings as soon as they get back from ZDAYZ.

 

"You have made several statements that vilify the marketing of the PowerLab kit as misleading and deceitful even though I pointed out that none of the other turbo kit manufacturers explicitly state what their kit's maximum horsepower capabilities are on PUMP gas. It is unfair and unreasonable to expect PowerLab to do this when none of the other manufacturers do so. Furthermore, some of the other manufacturers state their kit's maximum horsepower capabilities solely based on the power rating of the turbos and have no dynos to back up their claims. However, PowerLab has consistently provided dynos and videos to support their power claims."


This is the one point that I can agree with Rude on but I can not excuse the use of misleading advertising because others do it too.

False advertising or deceptive advertising is the use of false or misleading statements in advertising. As advertising has the potential to persuade people into commercial transactions that they might otherwise avoid, many governments around the world use regulations to control false, deceptive or misleading advertising. Truth in labeling refers to essentially the same concept, that customers have the right to know what they are buying, and that all necessary information should be on the label.

 

"I have just recieved disappointing new on my new engine build and the powerlab gt35r kit which was installed on my 2006 G35. The powerlab kit will not produce effective power past 465 hp on a dyno dynamic dyno. The kit is maxed out at 13-14 psi of boost. The engine is a stage one built block from Injected performance with Jim wolf s7 cams/valve springs, CJM stage 1 return fuel system with 800cc injectors, 3 inch exhaust into 2 2.5 inch hks mufflers, and an Haltech platinum running the show. The crew from Injected has been excellent to work with and have tried everything in their power to remedy the situation but have not been able to pull more power out of this kit without changing the turbo and building custom piping. I will post the dynos and more info as I recieve it."

"I am just stated what has been forwarded to me. Injected performance has done the complete project including the build and the tuning. The kit was on the car for ~5000 miles prior to the build project and made excellent power at 8 lbs of boost ~4oohp/400 torque. Hal at injected was the tuner who originally perform the stock motor tune. They are just as perplexed as I am about the current situation."

Are there any statements in these posts that insinuates that I was attacking Intense/powerlab?? I do agree that the thread has become heated and the mud slinging began when all parties went into attack mode.


"You didn't give PowerLab/Intense ample time, opportunity, or consideration to consult with Injected in the effort to troubleshoot the problem and attempt a resolution BEFORE you created this thread and proceeded to make negative proclamations about both the product and the company. You didn't give them a chance before you started flaming."

The thread was started to communicate my results and try to involve others in the community to come up with an solution. I agree that the thread has turned into a mud slinging forum at this point. Therefore, I am all for getting back on track and doing something productive with this thread.

 

 

have you considered the jim wolf cams might be defective?

if they're not ground to spec it will produce all the symptoms you are having.

 

I have not thought of that. I do know that the cams were measured prior to being placed in the car to check the specs so IP knew they received the right cams from Jim wolf.

 

eh, even stock cams will flow without issues at 500hp.

 

Hang in there man. Kudos for being so civil and for telling it straight despite the attempts by others to twist your words and attack your character.

It is tiring to see the AZ mob squad attack anyone that even dares to question Intense or PowerLab products. Even if the PowerLab kit didn't make 500 whp for YOU (and only you for whatever reason) on pump gas, you are entitled to post on it. Thank goodness for freedoms provided by the Constitution.

RudeG/Eric complains about vendor nuthugging, but he always vehemently defends his own shop. He complains about deceptive advertising by other vendors, but then it's justified for his shop. He complains about duplicitous treatment of vendors on the forum, but it's ok for him to be two-faced when it involves PowerLab/Intense. And he has the audacity to attack Injected Performance, who have never been anything other than 100% professional? Unbelievable. RudeG has been a vocal critic against GTM, Forged Performance, Motordyne, and now is starting into IP. Who's your next target Eric? And you folks supporting this guy - he'll be just as quick to turn on you when it suits him - you've been warned.

 

Im not defending Intense/PowerLab (pretty much same thing so lets not try to confuse people with trying to make them seperate.)
The kit itself is pretty well thought out and designed good. So for what they lack with customer service and being able to pick up the phone Im pleased with what the turbo kit itself can do.
I do feel that OP did jump the gun here and jus started this thread without gettin all the facts straight or troubleshooting all the problem. That's what I feel he did wrong here and was too quick to dismiss that the kit cant make power without first troubleshooting every problem.
Me personally I have great respect for Hal and the guys at Injected. They've taken care of me very well and I couldn't be happier with em.

 

Hope things workout for you OP. I'm in the build process myself and should be up and running in several months. From my tuners experience, I'm being told that ~520 maybe more (we'll see how much water/meth helps) is what I'll be looking at. Kinda was hoping for something higher as well but I got my kit at a bargain so no complains here! A little disappointing, yes. Different turbo and custom hot side piping would be needed for more power.

In hopes to see better numbers from you!

 

That's it, my kit is coming off. Anyone have a used turbonetics kit they want to sell me?

I keed I keed



But really, this thread is worth popping on. The shop really needs to post up a few more details. This is way too along the lines of he said she said for me to trust anything thats coming out of it.

 

Having been busy and away at a great weekend in the Smokies (ZdayZ), I hate that this has already blown out of control. I hope that we can focus on productive conversation with those who have experience with the situation at hand (power limit of PL GT35R kit on built motor), and minimize the other unnecessary noise.

A quick search of built setups with PL kit revealed Jtran, qqq in this thread, and our customer - none of which produced significantly over 500whp. For example, "cliff notes.....pl seems to be maxed out, customer isnt happy, selling turbo kit. installing bigger fuel system, clutch setup, greddy twins with the hta upgrades" Source

This vehicle was tuned on 93octane fuel, and I found that as boost was increased >15psi, torque would continue to climb but horsepower decreased. This is a similar effect (though at a greater power&boost level) that I have witnessed with Turbonetics kits. Before everyone goes crazy, I am not saying they are comparable, as the Powerlab setup is undoubtedly an improvement on the TN setup.

The normal checks have been done and the setup is solid and engine is very healthy. It appears that we have found the limits of this setup on pump fuel on our dyno, which corrected to Dynojet, is in line with others' findings.

My questions to Intense are the following, and can be taken to PM/Email if necessary (though as noted below, did not get a response to question 1 when asked privately before):
1. As asked by Greg and left unanswered, please provide intake air temperature logs at 10, 15, 20 and 25psi?
2. Please explain more on your statement, "I'm curious who told you that you will be making over 500wheel on pump gas?" I take this as you suggesting it likely may not achieve 500whp on pump gas. What was the maximum boost and power you/PL achieved with PL GT35R on pump gas? What would you consider to be the limiting factor of your kit's power production on pump gas? Keep in mind, I do not subscribe to the generic school of thought "you can't go beyond XX psi on pump gas!"... I want to know the reason for the limit.
3. Hopefully you logged exhaust back pressure in the development of this turbo kit? If so, please share the findings, as I feel this is most likely the factor currently limiting further power production. My next move would be finding the limitation causing the back pressure, and improving it - be it piping, turbo, etc. I already know there are plenty of bandwagon people ready to tell me about how great the piping is - but again, please only people with first hand experience of PL Kit on built motor chime in.

Also to clear up anyone stating "A GT35R can make 650whp, so must be install problem!", remember a turbo is only a small piece of the power production puzzle. Piping, pressures, restrictions, etc all contribute. A Powerlab GT35R kit is not a tubular header on a 2.0L engine, so quit comparing the two. This is directed to ALL turbo kit manufacturers....Just because you have xx size compressor wheel, rated for xxx horsepower, DOES NOT MEAN THE TURBO KIT IS CAPABLE OF THAT HORSEPOWER. Housings, pipings, etc all play a large roll when targeting max boost & power.


RudeG, your comments/accusations are clearly wrong and out of line. We do not have plans to produce a competing kit, and your wrongful suggestiveness and attempt to discredit us is noted and not appreciated.

 

i'm not bashing jim or anything,my opinion is that cam grinding errors are prevelant with most aftermarket cams.there is certain variance allowed and if yours is on the edge (or past) it would explain high egt/iat.to find the answer you would have to map every lobe,most shops do not do this unless asked.

also did you get engine specs with regard to piston installed height?just because you have an "8.5" piston there is no guarantee your actual compression is such.you also mention a valve job which sinks the valve a little lower adding cc's to the head volume.all these factors could add up to the weak #'s your showing.

it's called "stacking",a little here and a little there and you end up with a dismal performer.even if all is in "spec" your #"s will differ greatly from the same combo.

 

Here is a screen shot of logger, comparing 8, 14, and 16psi. (Customer data blurred for privacy)

Notice at 8psi air temps gradually increase, they do not shoot up to dangerous levels. The higher boost pulls show a turn half way through where they accelerate rapidly.

 

Injected Performance will not be making any production single or twin turbos kits in the near future. We have been asked by customers for the past 3-4 years to make one off kits like the one on Hal's car and previously my car and have declined. No changes have been made to our current stance.

Pete, seriously? No questions from Injected to Powerlab/Intense have been asked? After I gave you the compression results, and I apologize it was not immediate as I was in the shop trying to prepare another car before we left for zdayz, I asked you one question. Again for reference, the compression results were .08% difference across all cylinders. I asked you what the AIT's you have seen at 14 and 18psi. Your response was you didn't know and would have to ask someone else. I have yet to hear a response. Fortunately all Injected conversations over AIM are logged, would you like me to pull the log for you?

 

I wish there's a filter to just show the posts/replies from the shops. This would be a 1 page thread instead of 11 pages, and much more informative.

 

zul8r reached 670 whp @ 18 psi ona gt37r.... exactly what you would expect, ...the 76S on the same piping did what it was supposed to and injected should know that considering all their knowledge with the 76S since hal has personally used that turbo many times before.SO how is it that the piping doenst flow? if it handles well fro those other turbos?

Hal posted a few points that ill let others answer but form a quick glance at the post..

this isnt true if i read correctly... you have posted many times DD only numbers.. you posted your own bing single project numbers in DD(880whp) and i asked greg specifically if the PL 453whp numbers @ 10psi were true DD numbers and he said yet.

https://my350z.com/forum/6812224-post16.html
from 12.5% i got thats ~510whp on DJ congrats on already reaching 500whp btw...i think i congratulated injected for those results already before.

 

After this thread I decided to bump my current boost(14psi) just a little to see if anything odd happens.
Power picked up and AIT stayed reasonable.
I wanted to go higher but my 600cc injectors (raised fuel pressure to 4bar) held me back and personally i won't go higher on pump. I did however ran very conservative timing at peak tq
17psi - 568whp, will post the dyno sheet if anyone's interested.

So piping "OK" by me gt37r @ 17psi

As for the other dyno numbers I don't really care......we use it as a tool and stock my car made 202whp on it.

 

Please go ahead and post your Dyno, I would love to see your results. As mentioned before, This thread is focusing on the power pontenial of the GT35r Powerlab kit. Comparing the GT37R kit to the GT35R kit is like comparing apples to oranges at this point in the game.