Twin Charging my Z!
03-13-2012, 01:20 PM
#146
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Ill be using the StS rear mount turbo kit, inconjunction with my Stillen stage3. My Fx400 clutch, walbro, CP 8:5 pistons, Manly I beam rods, blah blah blah.
I removed the Garrett t3/t4 from the sts kit, and Replaced it with a T4 Garret GT3582R 1.06 A/R with anti-surge blah blah blah...
I removed the Garrett t3/t4 from the sts kit, and Replaced it with a T4 Garret GT3582R 1.06 A/R with anti-surge blah blah blah...
03-13-2012, 01:33 PM
#148
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sts rear mount should help me more then OP due to the turbo not heat soaking in the engine bay. i was also thinking about getting a side mount intercooler with a small elec. fan and installing it in the upper right section of the rear bumper, so as the air comes out of the turbo, it is cooled to a percentage before even traveling the the bigger intercooler in front of the car. That right their will signifigantly (spell check) alter the intake temp. befor it hits the neck of the supercharger. X2 intercoolers+ the fact the turbo is siting far from heat sorces.
yah i got it- exhaust system puts out heat... I know. maybe a turbo blanket can help that. not to mention the air vortex in the rear of the Z will have cool flowing air pass by the turbo. and also the Intake Piping stear claer of the exhaust piping. also a safty is to heat wrap the exhaust in the rear section.
i still want to keep the internal water/air intercooler for sure. everytime i check my heat exschanger it is next to ice cold. and keeping in minde the largerer boost pully will keep the supercharger away from over working her self and getting all hot and bothered.
yah i got it- exhaust system puts out heat... I know. maybe a turbo blanket can help that. not to mention the air vortex in the rear of the Z will have cool flowing air pass by the turbo. and also the Intake Piping stear claer of the exhaust piping. also a safty is to heat wrap the exhaust in the rear section.
i still want to keep the internal water/air intercooler for sure. everytime i check my heat exschanger it is next to ice cold. and keeping in minde the largerer boost pully will keep the supercharger away from over working her self and getting all hot and bothered.
Last edited by SuperZ-onDPE's; 03-13-2012 at 10:18 PM.
03-13-2012, 01:53 PM
#149
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i think between me an Op this forum and our beautiful country has a better chance in finding out what reall potential this kind of set up will have. we both are going different routs but doing the same thing.
it wasnt just till today did i see this post. otherwies i would have spoken up.
Op has an advantage over me. and i have an advantige over him.
he has more time then i do to play with this project, but i have more parts and possibly money to exspeirerment with this Great idea.
but the fact of the matter is that everyone just hold off on the nay saying, and let us do the work.
We will twincharge our car relitivly at the same exact time, so their is no turning back now after we both have spent about thousends of dollars gathering parts to do this project, and i promiss you we both did our reaserch and homwork to the point where we both are confident that it will work no matter what you nay-say.
it wasnt just till today did i see this post. otherwies i would have spoken up.
Op has an advantage over me. and i have an advantige over him.
he has more time then i do to play with this project, but i have more parts and possibly money to exspeirerment with this Great idea.
but the fact of the matter is that everyone just hold off on the nay saying, and let us do the work.
We will twincharge our car relitivly at the same exact time, so their is no turning back now after we both have spent about thousends of dollars gathering parts to do this project, and i promiss you we both did our reaserch and homwork to the point where we both are confident that it will work no matter what you nay-say.
03-13-2012, 02:05 PM
#150
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and as for MR.I HAVE TO KNOW THE NAME OF YOUR TUNNER! their will be two guys working together tuning my car:
Kelly Wolf
&
Gregory Waggoner
Kelly is an Apache pilot that currently has a 614whp GTR R33 skyline tuned himself.
Gregory is an Apache tech, but has history dynoing and tuning.
Do you know theas people? No didnt think so. now crying about not knowing the name of the tunners can stop.
You want to know where im from and what shop i go to so you can peek-a-boo on my build or set up? dont worry about it, its far from you i Promiss. But where me and OP will end up might be on a book shelf in a store near by you.
For thoes who want to see this build complete stand by.
For thoes who want to cry about how its pointless or impossible to control or waist of money... blah blah blah...
I tell you this, I hate money. the quicker i get it the faster i get rid of it. it takes two weeks for my checks to come. it takes two hours for me to spend it all.
Kelly Wolf
&
Gregory Waggoner
Kelly is an Apache pilot that currently has a 614whp GTR R33 skyline tuned himself.
Gregory is an Apache tech, but has history dynoing and tuning.
Do you know theas people? No didnt think so. now crying about not knowing the name of the tunners can stop.
You want to know where im from and what shop i go to so you can peek-a-boo on my build or set up? dont worry about it, its far from you i Promiss. But where me and OP will end up might be on a book shelf in a store near by you.
For thoes who want to see this build complete stand by.
For thoes who want to cry about how its pointless or impossible to control or waist of money... blah blah blah...
I tell you this, I hate money. the quicker i get it the faster i get rid of it. it takes two weeks for my checks to come. it takes two hours for me to spend it all.
03-13-2012, 02:13 PM
#152
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to save that one nay-sayer's time from asking the question.
Im Stationed in Germany.
The shops name: MWR, craft shop, Auto skills center. I do my own work.
Will this car be in the U.S.? yes
What state? TX is probly where ill be sent to after this next deployment
. im deploying soon soon. thats why i said OP has more time to play then i do.
but My twin charge will be done befor i deploy.
Im Stationed in Germany.
The shops name: MWR, craft shop, Auto skills center. I do my own work.
Will this car be in the U.S.? yes
What state? TX is probly where ill be sent to after this next deployment
. im deploying soon soon. thats why i said OP has more time to play then i do.
but My twin charge will be done befor i deploy.
03-14-2012, 06:58 AM
#154
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heres the thing, in your formula your missing the 28% boost proficiency.
I guess the best way i can exsplain it is, the fact that the suppercharger does not have to SUCK air in due to the turbocharger pushing the air insted. that produces a positive boost proficiency. i cant remember the exact numbers but
if you run 7psi(actualy 8.96psi due to the 28% pro) on the supercharger
and 4Psi on the turbo
You DONT get 11PSI
You will end up with more so 13.5 or 14psi (1 BAR) to the ports of the engine heads after the supercharger
you have to think about this If you are doing a compound set up. then you have to think about INTREST! lol like at a bank lol. ill go home tonight to look at my notes and write you back in a PM.
03-14-2012, 07:51 AM
#155
Still going huh!
One thought comes up when thinking of the extra plumbing, coolers, yada, yada etc..
"WEIGHT GAIN"
Generally those who are actually serious about making power also try to reduce weight. Which this theory does not! So then you have to ask is the weight gain worth the risk when proven techniques are actually available?
There is a reason no serious shop owners or tuners or FI vets etc haven't joined this thread!
One thought comes up when thinking of the extra plumbing, coolers, yada, yada etc..
"WEIGHT GAIN"
Generally those who are actually serious about making power also try to reduce weight. Which this theory does not! So then you have to ask is the weight gain worth the risk when proven techniques are actually available?
There is a reason no serious shop owners or tuners or FI vets etc haven't joined this thread!
03-14-2012, 08:01 AM
#156
its not a set percentage its a multiplicative effect i already posted the formula to figure out what you would actually be running. it all has to be done in absolute bar though, trying to do it in psi throws everything off.
((boost1+14.6)/14.6)*((boost2+14.6)/14.6)=total boost in absolute bar, then just multiply by 14.6 to convert to psi and subtract 14.6 after that to get rough estimate of guage reading. sure theres a way to do it for psi but im lazy to figure it out.
the advantage isnt that there is some magical extra efficiency that comes out of no where, peak power will be only slightly higher then a big single system.
that little extra power comes from both systems being able to run at lower boost pressures to keep them in optimum efficiency ranges, so the produce lower intake temps. the main advantage is more power lower in the rev range and the turbo spooling quicker from the supercharger working in the lower rev range and producing more exhaust gases. end result is only slightly higher peak power but a much greater average power aka power under the curve
((boost1+14.6)/14.6)*((boost2+14.6)/14.6)=total boost in absolute bar, then just multiply by 14.6 to convert to psi and subtract 14.6 after that to get rough estimate of guage reading. sure theres a way to do it for psi but im lazy to figure it out.
the advantage isnt that there is some magical extra efficiency that comes out of no where, peak power will be only slightly higher then a big single system.
that little extra power comes from both systems being able to run at lower boost pressures to keep them in optimum efficiency ranges, so the produce lower intake temps. the main advantage is more power lower in the rev range and the turbo spooling quicker from the supercharger working in the lower rev range and producing more exhaust gases. end result is only slightly higher peak power but a much greater average power aka power under the curve
03-14-2012, 08:51 AM
#157
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Still going huh!
One thought comes up when thinking of the extra plumbing, coolers, yada, yada etc..
"WEIGHT GAIN"
Generally those who are actually serious about making power also try to reduce weight. Which this theory does not! So then you have to ask is the weight gain worth the risk when proven techniques are actually available?
There is a reason no serious shop owners or tuners or FI vets etc haven't joined this thread!
One thought comes up when thinking of the extra plumbing, coolers, yada, yada etc..
"WEIGHT GAIN"
Generally those who are actually serious about making power also try to reduce weight. Which this theory does not! So then you have to ask is the weight gain worth the risk when proven techniques are actually available?
There is a reason no serious shop owners or tuners or FI vets etc haven't joined this thread!
oh so your talking about adding possibly 40-50 lbs to your car. but in return your out come will be in the "Hundreds" of HP added.
yah i agree... stupid huh
03-14-2012, 09:26 AM
#158
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its not a set percentage its a multiplicative effect i already posted the formula to figure out what you would actually be running. it all has to be done in absolute bar though, trying to do it in psi throws everything off.
((boost1+14.6)/14.6)*((boost2+14.6)/14.6)=total boost in absolute bar, then just multiply by 14.6 to convert to psi and subtract 14.6 after that to get rough estimate of guage reading. sure theres a way to do it for psi but im lazy to figure it out.
the advantage isnt that there is some magical extra efficiency that comes out of no where, peak power will be only slightly higher then a big single system.
that little extra power comes from both systems being able to run at lower boost pressures to keep them in optimum efficiency ranges, so the produce lower intake temps. the main advantage is more power lower in the rev range and the turbo spooling quicker from the supercharger working in the lower rev range and producing more exhaust gases. end result is only slightly higher peak power but a much greater average power aka power under the curve
((boost1+14.6)/14.6)*((boost2+14.6)/14.6)=total boost in absolute bar, then just multiply by 14.6 to convert to psi and subtract 14.6 after that to get rough estimate of guage reading. sure theres a way to do it for psi but im lazy to figure it out.
the advantage isnt that there is some magical extra efficiency that comes out of no where, peak power will be only slightly higher then a big single system.
that little extra power comes from both systems being able to run at lower boost pressures to keep them in optimum efficiency ranges, so the produce lower intake temps. the main advantage is more power lower in the rev range and the turbo spooling quicker from the supercharger working in the lower rev range and producing more exhaust gases. end result is only slightly higher peak power but a much greater average power aka power under the curve
Outstanding!!!
this is the kind of feed back threads need. knowlageble and not attacking. Thankyou for the helpfull feed back, this is what Op and I are looking for. information we couldnt come up with for our selfs thats why Op posted this thread in the first place. to get some helpful feed back. After i read all the post on this thread i noticed 2 out of 11 post were negative and telling OP he was stupid for even attempting this project.
what i dont understand is that, how is it that twincharging set up will work on everyother car and every other set up but not this car. Not the VQ. the way people were putting it was as if Nissan designed the VQ to never function with twinchargers. People are acting as if its against the Bible to twincharg the VQ.
03-14-2012, 09:29 AM
#159
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Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.
I never think of the future - it comes soon enough.
If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts.
If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor.
Imagination is more important than knowledge
The difference between what the most and the least learned people know is inexpressibly trivial in relation to that which is unknown.
We cannot despair of humanity, since we are ourselves human beings.
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing.
Albert Einstein
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.
I never think of the future - it comes soon enough.
If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts.
If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor.
Imagination is more important than knowledge
The difference between what the most and the least learned people know is inexpressibly trivial in relation to that which is unknown.
We cannot despair of humanity, since we are ourselves human beings.
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing.
Albert Einstein