Forged Performance: High Boost Greddy TT with Meth/FCON
07-08-2007, 09:41 AM
#121
Originally Posted by Bullitproof
Wish i knew this sh*t a week ago. i ordered the stage 1 off the forged perforformance site thinking that was the only kit avaliable. is the limit of the stage 1 really 550whp?
07-08-2007, 10:29 AM
#122
S I C K !
Joe-congrats man. Your car is impressive, I cant wait to run you again at next years Z day Z. You have inspired me to follow in your footsteps, just using a different EM and fuel system
Great job Sharif....btw Im still waiting for my Z day Z vid from your camera
Great job Sharif....btw Im still waiting for my Z day Z vid from your camera
07-08-2007, 12:11 PM
#123
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Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
Stage II is a minor improvement over Stage I, in terms of fuel flow. 550-600 on a street car is perfectly fine with Stage I OR stage II. And as mentioned, you can easily upgrade to stage II if you desire.
I ordered the stage 1 from you guys Sharif. Do you have the stage 2 parts in stock?
07-09-2007, 12:02 AM
#129
Originally Posted by THE ROADSTER
Sharif, with water/met system, do gain hp on the same boost ?
I was wondering the same thing. I'm sure water/methanol injection won't gain as much HP as the 100% methanol injection, but I wonder if 50~70WHP increase is possible with 40/60 water/methanol injection. Also, will it be possible to put in 100% methanol on water/methanol injection kit such as coolingmist, snowperformance, etc, etc??
07-09-2007, 06:09 AM
#130
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Originally Posted by Alberto
Of course you would. It allows you to run more timing safely and that alone will provide gains, you can also run leaner A/F's
Actually that is only half right... With Methanol you need to tune slightly richer for optimum power... The manufacture of the kit I am using suggesteded a target of 10.7-11:1 AFR. We are near 11.5:1
As for the timing, with pure methanol you can advance the timing quite a bit... As much as 4 deg, I believe that Sharif stopped at 3 deg on my setup. Again just for the reliability factor. If I had an FCon Navagator to change maps I could run a more aggresive tune for track only, but this is my only map that I run and switches based on meth / no meth and that is it.
07-09-2007, 06:16 AM
#131
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Originally Posted by leeboyNY
I was wondering the same thing. I'm sure water/methanol injection won't gain as much HP as the 100% methanol injection, but I wonder if 50~70WHP increase is possible with 40/60 water/methanol injection. Also, will it be possible to put in 100% methanol on water/methanol injection kit such as coolingmist, snowperformance, etc, etc??
That being said most kits that are avail are setup to run pure meth out of the box. And as cheap as methanol is, about $3.50/gal... The benifits of octane boost is well worth the expense.
As far as gaining power at the same boost levels, you would based on adding timing, but keep in mind at least on my setup the full injection does not start until you hit 14-15psi... This is above the limits of pump gas, so you would need to adjust the controller settings to take advantage of meth at lower boost levels. That being siad you can also run into transitional rich conditions if you inject the liquid at to low of manifold pressures... It is a fine line, and definately needs to be tuned in the hands of a great tuner to get everything seemless.
Last edited by MADScientist; 07-09-2007 at 06:21 AM.
07-09-2007, 06:25 AM
#132
Originally Posted by jkenefic
Actually that is only half right... With Methanol you need to tune slightly richer for optimum power... The manufacture of the kit I am using suggesteded a target of 10.7-11:1 AFR. We are near 11.5:1
As for the timing, with pure methanol you can advance the timing quite a bit... As much as 4 deg, I believe that Sharif stopped at 3 deg on my setup. Again just for the reliability factor. If I had an FCon Navagator to change maps I could run a more aggresive tune for track only, but this is my only map that I run and switches based on meth / no meth and that is it.
As for the timing, with pure methanol you can advance the timing quite a bit... As much as 4 deg, I believe that Sharif stopped at 3 deg on my setup. Again just for the reliability factor. If I had an FCon Navagator to change maps I could run a more aggresive tune for track only, but this is my only map that I run and switches based on meth / no meth and that is it.
07-09-2007, 06:59 AM
#133
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Originally Posted by Alberto
Why did Sharif tune it "lean" then if you could run it richer (safe to assume safer with Meth?) and make more power? I was always under the impression you could run high 11's even low 12's A/F with Meth and make more power and be safe.
But you can see some things happening in the dyno sheets... The power falls off a lot faster with the meth tune due to 2 things... The boost level is fading due to the size of the turbos, and the AFR is trending back up... In my opinion this is due to the single walbro pump feeding the engine at this power level. If these 2 things would have stayed constant the power curve would have more resembled the no meth 525whp runs. I plan to install the Stage 3 CJM system once it is avail and retune again just to clean that up... And hopefully the Cosworth manifold will be avail by then also!
07-09-2007, 07:09 AM
#135
Originally Posted by jkenefic
Well, as you know all engines respond differnetly to "tuning" Mine happened to like it better at this AFR. I was speaking in generalities...
But you can see some things happening in the dyno sheets... The power falls off a lot faster with the meth tune due to 2 things... The boost level is fading due to the size of the turbos, and the AFR is trending back up... In my opinion this is due to the single walbro pump feeding the engine at this power level. If these 2 things would have stayed constant the power curve would have more resembled the no meth 525whp runs. I plan to install the Stage 3 CJM system once it is avail and retune again just to clean that up... And hopefully the Cosworth manifold will be avail by then also!
But you can see some things happening in the dyno sheets... The power falls off a lot faster with the meth tune due to 2 things... The boost level is fading due to the size of the turbos, and the AFR is trending back up... In my opinion this is due to the single walbro pump feeding the engine at this power level. If these 2 things would have stayed constant the power curve would have more resembled the no meth 525whp runs. I plan to install the Stage 3 CJM system once it is avail and retune again just to clean that up... And hopefully the Cosworth manifold will be avail by then also!
07-09-2007, 08:09 AM
#136
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Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
Good points. Rules of thumb get us pointed in the right direction, but each car will respond differently, and I dont tune base on AF ratio alone. The other reason the power drops off a little sooner, is backpressure at these boost levels, and remember meth is great...we can run even much more timing with C18.
Well that gives me something to look forward to when I get the crazy idea that 650whp is not enough! lol
CJM Stage 3, HKS Navigator, EGT probe, C18 & meth... Too bad those turbos are too smal...
07-09-2007, 08:22 AM
#137
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Originally Posted by jkenefic
Well that gives me something to look forward to when I get the crazy idea that 650whp is not enough! lol
CJM Stage 3, HKS Navigator, EGT probe, C18 & meth... Too bad those turbos are too smal...
CJM Stage 3, HKS Navigator, EGT probe, C18 & meth... Too bad those turbos are too smal...
Some custom work would no doubt be invovled, but I bet there is a better turbo out there that will still fit.http://www.precisionturbo.net/turboc...tegory_id=3022
07-09-2007, 08:25 AM
#139
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Very interesting... the concern will be the sizing of the compressor housing itself. They are already right on top of the engine mounts as it is. But could be promising... Could come down to being one of those things that you will just have to get the turbo that "should fit" and see if it actually does!
07-09-2007, 08:38 AM
#140
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Originally Posted by thawk408
Have you looked into any bigger turbos? I found out that buick GN's use the same 3 bolt style manifold flange that the greddy kit uses. Ive been looking around for some better turbos that will still fit beside the motor, but my turbo knowledge is not that great. Some custom work would no doubt be invovled, but I bet there is a better turbo out there that will still fit.
http://www.precisionturbo.net/turboc...tegory_id=3022
Some custom work would no doubt be invovled, but I bet there is a better turbo out there that will still fit.http://www.precisionturbo.net/turboc...tegory_id=3022