My Dilemma: 370Z vs. Camaro SS
11-15-2008, 06:12 AM
#83
Are you that blind? Physics dude. Weight is the biggest killer.
A 422 hp LS3 3800lb+ will not be as quick or might be equally as fast as a 3000-3100 370Z.
A 420+ HP HEMI Challenger 4000lb can barely hit 13.8 at a slow 103 mph. The current 350z at 3300 lb can do low 13s stock!
A 422 hp LS3 3800lb+ will not be as quick or might be equally as fast as a 3000-3100 370Z.
A 420+ HP HEMI Challenger 4000lb can barely hit 13.8 at a slow 103 mph. The current 350z at 3300 lb can do low 13s stock!
Tell me, have you driven either car yet? No.
Can you prove these claims? No.
Yet you have no problem speculating that somehow a 422 hp LS3 powered, 3800 lb Camaro will somehow be slower than a 330-350 hp 3100-3300 lb Z? Ricer math.
TheStig, you are seeing the worst sort of fanboyism that my350z has to offer in Solo. He's by far the biggest Nissan nuthugger here.
Fixed.
I think people being brand ****** and not giving a product a chance based on its own merits is more akin to "stupid".
Can you prove these claims? No.
Yet you have no problem speculating that somehow a 422 hp LS3 powered, 3800 lb Camaro will somehow be slower than a 330-350 hp 3100-3300 lb Z? Ricer math.
TheStig, you are seeing the worst sort of fanboyism that my350z has to offer in Solo. He's by far the biggest Nissan nuthugger here.
Fixed.
I think people being brand ****** and not giving a product a chance based on its own merits is more akin to "stupid".
11-15-2008, 07:31 AM
#84
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The GTR is too boxy and ugly, and the C6 interior IS NOT worse than the 350Z. The 370Z interior looks like it might be a lot better, but my C6 is much nicer with better ergonomics than the 350Z which were rattle traps. After two years, my C6 is a solid as the day I bought it. The interior slams on the C6 are pure BS and a tired old stereo type used by those who are stuck in the past. Ragging on GM these days about quality when comparing it to Nissan is hilarious. NIssan is nothing special, and they WISH they could match the new CTS, for example, in quality. I like the new Z, but putting Nissan on a pedestal is a joke. They are the Japanese equivalent of Ford.
Actually, the c6 is the best bang for your buck sports car with looks to match..but interior is worse than the 350z & still a GM product.
11-15-2008, 08:32 AM
#86
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Well in this case, he really doesnt need too.
He is right. GM's Quality has gone up 10 fold in the past few years, and Nissan is really nothing special in terms of quality. Like ZZTop said, they are the Ford of Japanese cars, another way of putting it, is they are like the VW of German cars....they are the bottom of the list in quality in Japanese cars...and I really hope you dont try to argue that Nissan has better quality than Toyota or Honda. GM is the premier American car brand, they are at a great point where quality meets cost. They offer a 100,000 mile warranty they are so confident.
He is right. GM's Quality has gone up 10 fold in the past few years, and Nissan is really nothing special in terms of quality. Like ZZTop said, they are the Ford of Japanese cars, another way of putting it, is they are like the VW of German cars....they are the bottom of the list in quality in Japanese cars...and I really hope you dont try to argue that Nissan has better quality than Toyota or Honda. GM is the premier American car brand, they are at a great point where quality meets cost. They offer a 100,000 mile warranty they are so confident.
Last edited by TheStig; 11-15-2008 at 08:35 AM.
11-15-2008, 08:52 AM
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If you live here in the US I would get the 370z. Because just like the pusstang, when it first came out it was cool but since it had a v6 version everyone could afford it and everyday you see more and more of it on the road. It will get played out pretty fast. Z base price 30K plus = Rarity
11-15-2008, 09:08 AM
#88
For you douchebags who laugh at my dreams and intentions, take your envy and go to the Ford forums. It costs $2,000 to rent the 'Ring for an hour and that's all I need, plus I don't expect to spend less than $10,000 getting my car overthere and paying for hotels and stuff. And I said when I can afford it! I'm planning on being an Engineer so I'm hoping before I'm 30. I've loved the Camaro since the first concepts and I would love to own one, but I'm in love with the Z's design. I will test drive each and make a decision with my father! Thanks again
Just make daddy pay for the trip overseas.
11-15-2008, 09:31 AM
#89
Well in this case, he really doesnt need too.
He is right. GM's Quality has gone up 10 fold in the past few years, and Nissan is really nothing special in terms of quality. Like ZZTop said, they are the Ford of Japanese cars, another way of putting it, is they are like the VW of German cars....they are the bottom of the list in quality in Japanese cars...and I really hope you dont try to argue that Nissan has better quality than Toyota or Honda. GM is the premier American car brand, they are at a great point where quality meets cost. They offer a 100,000 mile warranty they are so confident.
He is right. GM's Quality has gone up 10 fold in the past few years, and Nissan is really nothing special in terms of quality. Like ZZTop said, they are the Ford of Japanese cars, another way of putting it, is they are like the VW of German cars....they are the bottom of the list in quality in Japanese cars...and I really hope you dont try to argue that Nissan has better quality than Toyota or Honda. GM is the premier American car brand, they are at a great point where quality meets cost. They offer a 100,000 mile warranty they are so confident.
11-15-2008, 09:52 AM
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Oh, I am sorry, but your stupidity overwhelms me.
But I guess I should expect that from someone who has window tint and brake fluid in his sig as "mods"
Im done arguing with you jackass.
11-15-2008, 09:54 AM
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I thought it was common sense we weren't comparing higher end vehicles in this. As in, You can buy two Z's for the price of a C6. So yeah, Common sense should tell you that a C6 would be better. I mean heck, it's only TWICE THE PRICE + a bit.
But hey, let's not split hairs, if we're going that way... GT-R owns your C6 or Z06 as well. Doesn't touch the ZR-1, I'll concede but we'll revisit this when the V-Spec comes out.
So for the less then common sense people out there ie: ZZtop, when I made my comment it was based upon fair market value, inside say.. $5000? So I can't compare a GT-R as being OMG BETTER then the Chevy Aveo. Dur.
11-15-2008, 10:12 AM
#92
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It's being built in St. Catharine's, Ontario.
The challenger weighs 4150 lbs, which is a good 350 pounds more than the Camaro. The first year run of Challengers were automatic only.
I have education in physics, as well as other sciences. Plain and simple, you are wrong. That is that. The Camaro will beat the new Z in a straight line. As for handling, obviously the lighter car should handle better, but the Camaro should still do quite well, for its size.
No, the car buying public is slow and stupid to learn. GM cars sucked badly in terms of quality starting in the late 70s, and got worse and worse (and the designs became more and more vanilla) until the current generation of cars (Corvette being the exception, as well as the last gen Camaro, with that LS1). Yet the public kept buying GM cars (albeit in lesser amounts until now).
At the moment, GM car are more interesting, more performance oriented, and have improving materials and build quality, yet people are staying away in droves. It takes time to destroy a previously good reputation. It also takes time to earn a good one after such a long fiasco. Judge the car on its own merits, not on your preconceived notions.
Are you that blind? Physics dude. Weight is the biggest killer.
A 422 hp LS3 3800lb+ will not be as quick or might be equally as fast as a 3000-3100 370Z.
A 420+ HP HEMI Challenger 4000lb can barely hit 13.8 at a slow 103 mph. The current 350z at 3300 lb can do low 13s stock!
A 422 hp LS3 3800lb+ will not be as quick or might be equally as fast as a 3000-3100 370Z.
A 420+ HP HEMI Challenger 4000lb can barely hit 13.8 at a slow 103 mph. The current 350z at 3300 lb can do low 13s stock!
I have education in physics, as well as other sciences. Plain and simple, you are wrong. That is that. The Camaro will beat the new Z in a straight line. As for handling, obviously the lighter car should handle better, but the Camaro should still do quite well, for its size.
At the moment, GM car are more interesting, more performance oriented, and have improving materials and build quality, yet people are staying away in droves. It takes time to destroy a previously good reputation. It also takes time to earn a good one after such a long fiasco. Judge the car on its own merits, not on your preconceived notions.
11-15-2008, 10:50 AM
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Let's leave behind all the ridiculous opinions expressed her and get back to giving the guy (OP) some decent advice.
My first recommendation is to enroll in the nearest Skip Barber Driving School TODAY. Do not pass GO or collect $200. It will greatly improve your car control skills and help you to wring out every bit of performance your Scion's got. Then, maybe do some local autocrossing with your Scion to see if you even LIKE driving a car at speed. This should teach you that the only place for high speed driving is on the track and NOT on public streets where one mistake can ruin the lives of innocent people.
Only after you are confident in your ability to handle your current car, should you consider upping the ante with a faster car. The driving schools will give you the understanding to FEEL what the car is doing and how to make slight corrections with steering, throttle and brake input to stay out of trouble. Then, when you slip behind the wheel of your next car, you'll have a better understanding of what's going on than most of the bench racers you'll encounter here on this forum.
What's the rush to get either a Z or an SS, anyway? You're 18 with your whole life ahead of you. If you buy a nice car now, you'll end up parking it in the student parking lot at university, subjecting the car to all manner of door dings, fender benders and drunken frat brothers barfing in it. You'll just get even more pissed off. I say keep the Scion for college and let it get thrashed. Save your own money for a nicer car when you graduate from college. Don't make your old man pay for all that. You'll appreciate it more if you earn it yourself. Having completed several driving schools and honed your driving skills, you'll really know what you like and don't like about current cars, so you can make an informed decision.
The 'Ring is the scariest race track on the planet and is not to be taken lightly. I've attached a few links which can be enlightening. Ben Lovejoy's site (nurburgring.org/uk) is especially revealing. On the site, he talks about the many times the track is temporarily closed as another unlucky (read: unskilled) driver is medevac'ed to the nearest hospital. Many don't make it.
Every summer, the BMW club runs a week-long school at the 'Ring. They divide into small groups and teach the nuances of every section of the course. No one is allowed to attend this school unless they've completed AT LEAST three other driving schools. Some people provide their own cars by doing Euro-delivery, but most just rent cars, since rental race cars are readily available there. (It's a serious no-no to rent from Hertz and go racing on the 'Ring.) You'll still spend around $5k at the BMW school just renting a car. But you'll come away with an education instead of just a costly lesson.
http://www.nuerburgring.de/home/index.html?L=1
http://www.heiser.net/documents/nurburgring/
http://forum.ringersforum.com/
http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/index.html
http://www.ringhaus.com/hotel_en/public/cars.php
So here's what I'd recommend:
1. Enroll in driving schools ASAP.
2. Learn to drive what you've already got.
3. Have your Dad put the money he'd spend on a Z into tuition at a better engineering school instead, then study like hell.
4. Graduate.
5. Get a good job.
6. Save some money.
7. Buy the car you want.
8. Take all the experience you've gained at various driving schools with you to spend a week SAVORING the 'Ring. Bring your Dad with you, since he'd probably have the time of his life.
9. Make memories to last a lifetime. Do this every step of the way and you'll have a life well lived.
10. Don't let anyone crush your dreams. Set goals, but be prepared to make adjustments as you gather more information, gain experience and/or reality sets in.
11. Show this post to your Dad and I'll bet he would agree with me.
Good luck!
zed-er
My first recommendation is to enroll in the nearest Skip Barber Driving School TODAY. Do not pass GO or collect $200. It will greatly improve your car control skills and help you to wring out every bit of performance your Scion's got. Then, maybe do some local autocrossing with your Scion to see if you even LIKE driving a car at speed. This should teach you that the only place for high speed driving is on the track and NOT on public streets where one mistake can ruin the lives of innocent people.
Only after you are confident in your ability to handle your current car, should you consider upping the ante with a faster car. The driving schools will give you the understanding to FEEL what the car is doing and how to make slight corrections with steering, throttle and brake input to stay out of trouble. Then, when you slip behind the wheel of your next car, you'll have a better understanding of what's going on than most of the bench racers you'll encounter here on this forum.
What's the rush to get either a Z or an SS, anyway? You're 18 with your whole life ahead of you. If you buy a nice car now, you'll end up parking it in the student parking lot at university, subjecting the car to all manner of door dings, fender benders and drunken frat brothers barfing in it. You'll just get even more pissed off. I say keep the Scion for college and let it get thrashed. Save your own money for a nicer car when you graduate from college. Don't make your old man pay for all that. You'll appreciate it more if you earn it yourself. Having completed several driving schools and honed your driving skills, you'll really know what you like and don't like about current cars, so you can make an informed decision.
The 'Ring is the scariest race track on the planet and is not to be taken lightly. I've attached a few links which can be enlightening. Ben Lovejoy's site (nurburgring.org/uk) is especially revealing. On the site, he talks about the many times the track is temporarily closed as another unlucky (read: unskilled) driver is medevac'ed to the nearest hospital. Many don't make it.
Every summer, the BMW club runs a week-long school at the 'Ring. They divide into small groups and teach the nuances of every section of the course. No one is allowed to attend this school unless they've completed AT LEAST three other driving schools. Some people provide their own cars by doing Euro-delivery, but most just rent cars, since rental race cars are readily available there. (It's a serious no-no to rent from Hertz and go racing on the 'Ring.)
You'll still spend around $5k at the BMW school just renting a car. But you'll come away with an education instead of just a costly lesson.http://www.nuerburgring.de/home/index.html?L=1
http://www.heiser.net/documents/nurburgring/
http://forum.ringersforum.com/
http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/index.html
http://www.ringhaus.com/hotel_en/public/cars.php
So here's what I'd recommend:
1. Enroll in driving schools ASAP.
2. Learn to drive what you've already got.
3. Have your Dad put the money he'd spend on a Z into tuition at a better engineering school instead, then study like hell.
4. Graduate.
5. Get a good job.
6. Save some money.
7. Buy the car you want.
8. Take all the experience you've gained at various driving schools with you to spend a week SAVORING the 'Ring. Bring your Dad with you, since he'd probably have the time of his life.
9. Make memories to last a lifetime. Do this every step of the way and you'll have a life well lived.
10. Don't let anyone crush your dreams. Set goals, but be prepared to make adjustments as you gather more information, gain experience and/or reality sets in.
11. Show this post to your Dad and I'll bet he would agree with me.
Good luck!
zed-er
11-15-2008, 11:04 AM
#95
When you race in SCCA you will understand why my car is still in Stock class.
Talking about being stupid, look in the mirror.How about you leave this site. You haven't done anything helpful to this site except start flame wars in this topic alone.
11-15-2008, 11:07 AM
#96
Again, the one that ran 13.8 at 103 was a manual not a automatic. The video was posted as proof.
You have yet to PROVE ANYONE wrong here. The Camaro may beat it, or may not. Fact is YOU have no clue. Per the specifications, it MAY NOT because of how much it will weigh.
You have yet to PROVE ANYONE wrong here. The Camaro may beat it, or may not. Fact is YOU have no clue. Per the specifications, it MAY NOT because of how much it will weigh.
It's being built in St. Catharine's, Ontario.
The challenger weighs 4150 lbs, which is a good 350 pounds more than the Camaro. The first year run of Challengers were automatic only.
I have education in physics, as well as other sciences. Plain and simple, you are wrong. That is that. The Camaro will beat the new Z in a straight line. As for handling, obviously the lighter car should handle better, but the Camaro should still do quite well, for its size.
No, the car buying public is slow and stupid to learn. GM cars sucked badly in terms of quality starting in the late 70s, and got worse and worse (and the designs became more and more vanilla) until the current generation of cars (Corvette being the exception, as well as the last gen Camaro, with that LS1). Yet the public kept buying GM cars (albeit in lesser amounts until now).
At the moment, GM car are more interesting, more performance oriented, and have improving materials and build quality, yet people are staying away in droves. It takes time to destroy a previously good reputation. It also takes time to earn a good one after such a long fiasco. Judge the car on its own merits, not on your preconceived notions.
The challenger weighs 4150 lbs, which is a good 350 pounds more than the Camaro. The first year run of Challengers were automatic only.
I have education in physics, as well as other sciences. Plain and simple, you are wrong. That is that. The Camaro will beat the new Z in a straight line. As for handling, obviously the lighter car should handle better, but the Camaro should still do quite well, for its size.
No, the car buying public is slow and stupid to learn. GM cars sucked badly in terms of quality starting in the late 70s, and got worse and worse (and the designs became more and more vanilla) until the current generation of cars (Corvette being the exception, as well as the last gen Camaro, with that LS1). Yet the public kept buying GM cars (albeit in lesser amounts until now).
At the moment, GM car are more interesting, more performance oriented, and have improving materials and build quality, yet people are staying away in droves. It takes time to destroy a previously good reputation. It also takes time to earn a good one after such a long fiasco. Judge the car on its own merits, not on your preconceived notions.
11-15-2008, 11:11 AM
#97
I'll chime in on this one... but I'll do 350z vs LS1 Camaro
I had a modded hugger orange 99 Z28. I sold it, and bought my 350z 3 months later.
I can't say the 350z kicks the camros *** completely (I had the camaro running 12s and looking sexy with less than $500 worth of mods, and having the rare color definitely stands out), but I'm much happier with the Z.
Pros over the Camaro
a.) I can make turns I bet you didn't see that one coming
b.) The Z stands out more. No one ever asked me "omg what kind of car is this?" in the camaro, but I get that all of the time in the Z. One lady even called it a Porche one day...
c.) I like the smaller profile of the car. It sit nicely in it's own corner of the garage, and I still had room for couches and other things to make my garage more pleasing. On paper they don't look that much different, but my camaro took up lots of space -- especially when you're working on it. The hood is friggin huge!
d.) I don't know this one for sure, but Forced Induction. It's a pain to do any custom FI on the LS1 due to space constraints, but it doesn't seem like people are having too much problem with the Z.
Camaro Pros over the Z
a.) track time. I pulled a 12.99 with on DOT tires with just an airbox and exhaust cut-out -- no "real" mods.
b.) parts. You can find parts quickly and easily.
c.) getty-up. that LS3 is obviously gonna hit the Gs more than a Z, but
I had a modded hugger orange 99 Z28. I sold it, and bought my 350z 3 months later.
I can't say the 350z kicks the camros *** completely (I had the camaro running 12s and looking sexy with less than $500 worth of mods, and having the rare color definitely stands out), but I'm much happier with the Z.
Pros over the Camaro
a.) I can make turns
I bet you didn't see that one comingb.) The Z stands out more. No one ever asked me "omg what kind of car is this?" in the camaro, but I get that all of the time in the Z. One lady even called it a Porche one day...
c.) I like the smaller profile of the car. It sit nicely in it's own corner of the garage, and I still had room for couches and other things to make my garage more pleasing. On paper they don't look that much different, but my camaro took up lots of space -- especially when you're working on it. The hood is friggin huge!
d.) I don't know this one for sure, but Forced Induction. It's a pain to do any custom FI on the LS1 due to space constraints, but it doesn't seem like people are having too much problem with the Z.
Camaro Pros over the Z
a.) track time. I pulled a 12.99 with on DOT tires with just an airbox and exhaust cut-out -- no "real" mods.
b.) parts. You can find parts quickly and easily.
c.) getty-up. that LS3 is obviously gonna hit the Gs more than a Z, but
11-15-2008, 11:14 AM
#99
let me qualify the "make turns" statement I made above:
The camaro handles awesomely for its size and class (try putting it up against a mustang or charger), but the Z just beats it. Just because the Z is better doesn't mean the camaro sucks at it, it just means the Z is superior
The camaro handles awesomely for its size and class (try putting it up against a mustang or charger), but the Z just beats it. Just because the Z is better doesn't mean the camaro sucks at it, it just means the Z is superior
11-15-2008, 12:38 PM
#100
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This thread has turned into a mud slinging fest...