Alcohol/Methanol/Water Injection Q&A...
Originally Posted by q8z
whats the difference between Snow and Aqua HFS-5
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stage3 has been delayed for some patent issues but will be out shortly if it all goes smoothly...I will be doing some comparison tests of different pumps and such this coming weeks...will post up when I get them done...
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Totally missed that, at the moment no but it is in the works, its just at this point with all the testing we have done it hasn't been any real improvement over the boost based kits...
I have been reading some of the post in Snowperfomance.net and this is the advice from the techie over there in term of A/F tuning.
Check this link, basically it says that you never change your primary A/F but only change the nozzle.
http://www.snowperformance.net/forum...opic.php?t=991
This is weird, I rather change my A/F table to compensate with the richness when adding Meth than increase my timing. Also by changing my A/F table, I can decrease the IPW and will give me more room with my Inj. Duty Cycle (sometimes my Duty cycle reach 95%)
"Recommend by Snow Performance:
!) With no meth. Tune your baseline A/F to 12-12.5:1 with conservative timing.
2) Make no changes and activate the meth. Your A/F ratio will drop approx 1/2-1 full point of A/F. If not make adjustments to pump pressure or nozzle size.
3) If your A/F drop is 1/2 -1 full point of A/F then you can add more total timing or boost or both.
"
!) With no meth. Tune your baseline A/F to 12-12.5:1 with conservative timing.
2) Make no changes and activate the meth. Your A/F ratio will drop approx 1/2-1 full point of A/F. If not make adjustments to pump pressure or nozzle size.
3) If your A/F drop is 1/2 -1 full point of A/F then you can add more total timing or boost or both.
"
http://www.snowperformance.net/forum...opic.php?t=991
"
Hi there,
With no Methanol tune to an A/F ratio of 12-12.5:1 with conservative timing.
Once this is complete, turn on the methanol and make no other changes other than turning on the methnaol. Your rwhp, rwtq will drop (loss of HP)
and your looking for an A/F ratio drop of .5-1.0. Anything more than 1.0 drop in A/F ratio is too much and can be corrected by using a smaller nozzle or turn the pressure down on the pump.
Once your desired A/F ratio drop (.5-1.0) is achieved than you can add in more timing, boost or both.
If you have an idea of what kind of HP this car makes I'll be happy to recommend a nozzle size for you.
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Isn't this the same as having an AFR tuned at 11.5, adding the injection and having 10.5 and pulling fuel out until its 11.5 again? Because whether you pull fuel before or after you start injecting, its the same thing?
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No it is not the same. You don't adjust your primary fuel to dial in your final AFR. You adjust the water/methanol flow. Follow the procedure outlined by Mike and you'll be good to go.
Nate
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Hi there,
With no Methanol tune to an A/F ratio of 12-12.5:1 with conservative timing.
Once this is complete, turn on the methanol and make no other changes other than turning on the methnaol. Your rwhp, rwtq will drop (loss of HP)
and your looking for an A/F ratio drop of .5-1.0. Anything more than 1.0 drop in A/F ratio is too much and can be corrected by using a smaller nozzle or turn the pressure down on the pump.
Once your desired A/F ratio drop (.5-1.0) is achieved than you can add in more timing, boost or both.
If you have an idea of what kind of HP this car makes I'll be happy to recommend a nozzle size for you.
Back to top
========================================================
Isn't this the same as having an AFR tuned at 11.5, adding the injection and having 10.5 and pulling fuel out until its 11.5 again? Because whether you pull fuel before or after you start injecting, its the same thing?
====================================================
No it is not the same. You don't adjust your primary fuel to dial in your final AFR. You adjust the water/methanol flow. Follow the procedure outlined by Mike and you'll be good to go.
Nate
====================================================
This is weird, I rather change my A/F table to compensate with the richness when adding Meth than increase my timing. Also by changing my A/F table, I can decrease the IPW and will give me more room with my Inj. Duty Cycle (sometimes my Duty cycle reach 95%)
Last edited by athenG; Dec 20, 2007 at 04:56 PM.
i'd love to get a alky kit, but UTEC's wont change maps from some sort of input, like if you ran out of MeOH?
Correct?
So with the UTEC, you just have to use a warning float light in the dash and stay on top of the meth/water combo???
Also, if you used your washer tank as the reservoir, is mounting the pump on the bumper brace (ala Eagletang's) suffiecient to keep the pump primed?
Correct?
So with the UTEC, you just have to use a warning float light in the dash and stay on top of the meth/water combo???
Also, if you used your washer tank as the reservoir, is mounting the pump on the bumper brace (ala Eagletang's) suffiecient to keep the pump primed?
/\ Get a bigger tank. A bigger tank will give you more time to check your meth level. Most kit also has an option if you want when running low, Also Utec has 5 maps you can use so just switch back to your NO-Meth Map when the level is low. I just check under the hood and there is no space to run a bigger tank so a Rear-Mount water/meth kit will be my choice (It will match my Rear-Mount Turbo...hehe) I have given up on my BoostXRPM base kit (good kit cost over $1000 alone). was thinking of getting the Snow stage 2 kit and use my Windshield water reservoir but the Snow kit comes with a Push kinda pump so the pump has to be lower than the tank (I could be wrong).
I'm still confuse why will Snow Performance said that you only adjust the Meth kit and not the primary A/F table. Adding Water/meth will en-richen the A/F so my first reaction will be tune the car to pull some fuel to bring back the A/F to were it was (let say 11.4), yet maybe go a little bit reacher since Meth has a much higher Octane rating. Is it because Methanol's stoich A/F ratio s 6.4 compare to Gasoline with 14.7?
I'm still confuse why will Snow Performance said that you only adjust the Meth kit and not the primary A/F table. Adding Water/meth will en-richen the A/F so my first reaction will be tune the car to pull some fuel to bring back the A/F to were it was (let say 11.4), yet maybe go a little bit reacher since Meth has a much higher Octane rating. Is it because Methanol's stoich A/F ratio s 6.4 compare to Gasoline with 14.7?
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Well there are many different philosophies of tuning and I personally don't support the snow one...every car is different and unique and should be tuned accordingly...some cars benefit greatly from increased timing and barely anything from afr adjustment while others are the exact opposite...its really a car to car basis on what works...as for the UTEC you can't have it switch off maps but you can set it up to work as a failsafe when running meth...you just have it pull very aggressive timing and add fuel whenever the parameters get out of your desired range while on meth...its what I had done on my evo...
Originally Posted by Ultimate CC
as for the UTEC you can't have it switch off maps but you can set it up to work as a failsafe when running meth...you just have it pull very aggressive timing and add fuel whenever the parameters get out of your desired range while on meth...its what I had done on my evo...
What parameters? All I can see that Utec can adapt is the IAT, were if the temp goes up let say above 40C then you can dump loads of fuel and pull some timing.
Last edited by athenG; Dec 21, 2007 at 05:37 AM.