If he broke down in the heat explain how I have 3 summers of built engine abuse in MD spinning to higher rpm's with no oil cooler? Total built engine abuse for me is now almost 15K miles.

I still dont buy it to the point we can attribute his failure to the lack of oil cooler.

 

here is a one stop-shop oil cooler which should do the job.. HUGE. GTM FTW

COOLER SIZE 16" X 7.75" X 2 " 25 R 22MM

 

A flash point is the tempature at which the oil vapors will ignite and burn and its 220-230deg C that equals about 430deg F. I am not sure how flash point has anything to do with bearings failing

 

Yea that's the one I have. I could prob fit another one if I move it to the left or right. 2 might be overkill. We'll see.

 

I completely agree.

Also, as previously mentioned, breakdown of the oil would have shown up in the first oil sample sent to Blackstone Labs in which excessive bearing material was present.

 

Maybe you missed what I mentioned about how tune and excessive EGT, and even turbo type will greatly affect the oil temps. I'm sure you have an excellent tune and EMS.

 

Im not arguing being a gpig for a new EMS or the tune(s) he has had werent all correct decisions, I am strickly stating the lack of oil cooler alone wasnt the culprit.

I sure wouldnt run that EMS again, while tuning and limited road testing the EMS could be doing its job but its not uncommon for some systems to not stay true to timing, a/f, etc values while driving under certain conditions. Weather or not Chris chooses to believe that will be for him to live with.

 

+1. I have not had and still do not have an oil cooler on my built set-up and even running through the desert of Nevada (tepms at 115 F) and a full track day in Nebraska (w/90+ degree temps where the GT-R we took had to be brought in about every 5-7 laps due to temps.) I have had no issues.

 

The oil cooler issue is like the Smoker vs Nonsmoker.....Some people die from smoking and some don't ..... Is it worth taking the chance???

The way I road race my car, It would not last.... That's a fact. I can see not having one for drag racing ..... But for on and off boost on the street or road racing ....why take the chance??

I know people that have turbo kits without IC....it's possible nothing will happen.... But why take the chance???

I am not saying that's what cause Chris motor to fail...I don't know .... But it could have .... I do agree that he should stop trying new things and go with what's been proven.

 

In that case I agree. As I mentioned originally when I brought up possible tune related EGT problems, the oil cooler would have only delayed disaster.

I still think that not having one after spending so much $$ on your build is pretty silly. As others have shown in this thread, dangerous temps can be reached when not even boosting.

 

Looking around a few websites, it looks like 260 - 280 deg F is the max oil operating temp documented for various vehicles. If an oil temperature gauge indicates oil temps below 260 degrees, then I'd say there is little point to getting an oil cooler UNLESS you want to go longer between oil change intervals. A certain fraction of the oil is going to breakdown over time with that fraction being greater for a given time period at higher operating temps. Sharif may have raced for hours at 280, but I bet he changed that oil afterwards. I changed my oil, trans, and rear diff fluids as soon as I got home from ZdayZ, after beating on the car for 3 days.

In regards to the UOA, I'd like to see it if you have the PDF Chris. Without the extra test for TBN, I think it may be difficult to tell how much life was left in the oil.

In regards to the EMS, I don't know what to say. The fact that 2 forum members that have tried it out both have motor issues could be coincidence... I sure would be datalogging to ensure that all parameters are in spec. I continue to analyze logs periodically on the Haltech so that I am reassured that environmental conditions aren't affecting the tune (or to tweak the compensation tables appropriately).

 

^^ yea but with a full standalone like ViPEC you're relying on the EMS itself to provide logs, so if the EMS is suspect, the logs would be too..

 

well if u going to rebuild it , build it with style carbon fiber pistons ;p

link
http://endless-r-tuning.blogspot.com...7_archive.html

 

That sounds pretty hot. If your oil has seen too much time at 280, you can rest assured its probably broken down (to some degree).

Quote from Street Rodder Mag
"As a general rule, engine oils will begin to degrade when the oil temperatures begin to reach 250 degrees F, though premium synthetic engine oils resist this breakdown to a much higher degree due to the uniform polymer chain and superior additive package."

 

A further quote

"Normal oil temperatures are going to be between 200 to 220 degrees F in most engines. It needs to evaporate water condensate that may have been built up in the system due to hot engine oil cooling down in cold ambient temperatures."

 

Everyone with a boosted car needs at a min. an oil temp gauge with an alarm.

Set the alarm for 'lower' than the fail point (like 230F) to give yourself some wiggle room.

Each car is different, and the more HP you make and use, the higher the heat generated in the oil and cooling that needs to be dissapated.

Case in point, don't guess - install the correct equipment and make real time decisions based on the data that equipment provides.

If my wimpy 475whp G with a Koyo, Evans and oil cooler can post up 240F in AL summer heat, then certainly a 600whp Z can top that. Without a proper monitoring system it would have gone well past 240F at times without monitoring it.

You don't necessarily need a "cooler",... but you definitely need a "gauge".

 

Nice Post, I missed this one before I posted, lol, but we definitely on the same page.

Dam, iPad - i am still getting used to typing on flat keyboard

 

I got the trans off today and was attempting to take the setup off as a whole by removing the manifolds and oil/coolant lines, but one of the manifold bolts in the rear is stripping out. How does a 14mm nut strip when you use a 14mm wrench

I suppose its just worn from the kit being on and off so many times, but now I'm not sure how to get that nut off. Same thing happened with the 17mm nut on the bottom of the front cross member .

Either way, I've had enough for today and will try again in the morning. If/when this all goes back together I am certain that nuts/bolts/studs will either be replaced or at least chased with a tap or dye. Everything I did today was 1 nut/bolt away from finished, but nothing but the trans is done .

Next time someone says 10 hours to pull the motor and put it back in I will think of it as a deal. Doing this myself gives me another level of respect for the guys that do this for a living.

 

ya try doing it all in a townhome 1 car garage twice!

you really understand how much easier it is to lift the car off the motor like how the shops do it, after you do it once with a crane in your garage

 

iPad is great